Judy Murray Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 7 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: I think there is something in that. The spread of coaching ideas between places like Austria, Hungary, and Italy, and ideas being carried by Jewish migrants/refugees etc certainly meant football in mainland Europe developed differently to what was happening on this island. I think England is actually getting there these days. You can see the impact of the St George's centre thing with the type of player they are producing. I think they still have a bit to go, but they will get there eventually. fucking hell 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 1 minute ago, Judy Murray said: fucking hell ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luddite Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 12 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: I think there is something in that. The spread of coaching ideas between places like Austria, Hungary, and Italy, and ideas being carried by Jewish migrants/refugees etc certainly meant football in mainland Europe developed differently to what was happening on this island. I think England is actually getting there these days. You can see the impact of the St George's centre thing with the type of player they are producing. I think they still have a bit to go, but they will get there eventually. My knowledge of current top level football is very very limited….what is the St George Centre and what type of player are they producing? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheese Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 57 minutes ago, Ocelot1877 said: Listening to the rest is football podcast ( a guilty pleasure of mine admittedly) as they had uploaded their episode after the final. For the most part they admit that they didn’t deserve to win the tournament, overall they were poor etc. Obviously it’s an English football podcast with ex English players but some of the hubris and ego even now is utterly bizzare ( something that obviously is expected with them). The part that really got to me is that Shearer and Richards are still peddling this line that o heard a couple of times at the tournament “ we have the best player in England, the best player in Germany and the best player in Spain”. Obviously talking about Kane, Bellingham, Foden. Football being as subjective as it is and given how it can be quite difficult to compare positions absolutist statements like this are utterly over the top, when you could argue that each of those three individuals might not even be the best players at their clubs ( definitely not in the case for Foden.) The strangest part was immediately after they talk about this they are talking about how maybe Kane should retire. It’s an utter see saw, no wonder the manager and players look exhausted Until they stop looking at football through the English microscope and open themselves up to wider ideas, analysis and also appreciate other countries leagues are also competitive, have good talent and is actually respected and well coached at grassroots they will never get over the hump. Long may it continue. Didn't see much of the English punditry at this tournament as I chose to watch elsewhere for my sanity, but what I did see and hear was comment and analysis of the lowest common denominator. Pure red top tabloid dung. It was never this bad was it ? Proper gibbering morons like Richards. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luddite Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 14 minutes ago, Thumper said: They do need a couple of tournaments where they don't even qualify. I've obviously listened to Three Lions quite a few times in the last couple of days and it's so nostalgic to think of a time when they genuinely weren't expected by their own press to get to at least the semis of any tournament they bothered entering. Bring back Graham Taylor (is he still alive?) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudia Gentile Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Just now, Luddite said: Bring back Graham Taylor (is he still alive?) No 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Stanton Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Just now, Luddite said: My knowledge of current top level football is very very limited….what is the St George Centre and what type of player are they producing? They had a revamp more than a decade ago of youth coaching and have changed how they prepare coaches, how young players' progression is organised. Some of it is quite controversial as it heavily favours big clubs and highly-rated academies. England have won various youth tournaments at u-19, u-17, and have a lot of players now who are technically better than what England produced in the past. I think the influence of the likes of Guardiola will move them on over time as well. They need to be producing more coaches. While they're not everyone's cup of tea, and not necessarily good enough themselves, Howe and Potter are the only two English coaches of the type that Germany and Holland churn out regularly. Once they ge their coaching right, they'll be likely to do well. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luddite Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Just now, Claudia Gentile said: No Shame. I genuinely quite liked him 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagar Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 Just now, Luddite said: Shame. I genuinely quite liked him Died over 7 years ago. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luddite Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 4 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: I think the influence of the likes of Guardiola will move them on over time as well. Speaking of Taylors…Guardiola is the Frederick W. Taylor of football 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 1 minute ago, Luddite said: Speaking of Taylors…Guardiola is the Frederick W. Taylor of football He's not my thing either. I preferred football with a bit more character, but once the stats people got hold of football we were always likely to see percentages football winning the day. That's all Guardiola's game is about. Control, minimising risk, sticking to a framework. That's always really been what tactical development has been about. The problem is that when it becomes so developed to a high level, you end up with a technically excellent but not very appealing sport. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Judy Murray said: fucking hell Take this as a learning moment, Judy. I'd suggest you start with the Meisl brothers, Bela Guttman, and the cross polonation of football ideas with figures like Pozzo. Led to the great Hungarian team of the 50s, via developments in Austria, and ultimately to the Dutch version, which became known as Total Football, and which has now moved on to Spain through Crujff, principally. Some British figures were involved in this process, but mainly by going abroad. Obviously, Jewish migration to South America saw Central European ideas taken out there and have an influence on how the game developed in that part of the world. The holocaust had a huge impact on football. And the amount of movement around the continent in the mid-twentieth century led to huge changes in the game. It's a very interesting topic. Educate yourself, you barbarian. Edited July 16 by VincentGuerin 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cairn Terrier Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 1 hour ago, Luddite said: Bring back Graham Taylor (is he still alive?) 1 hour ago, Claudia Gentile said: No Ach, bring him back anyway. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claudia Gentile Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Cairn Terrier said: Ach, bring him back anyway. That would be a turnip for the books. Edited July 16 by Claudia Gentile 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 "Would you swap Kyle Walker for Dani Carvajal" is definitely one of the highlights of the media post match spouting. Can't help reading it as sung by Fish though. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted July 16 Share Posted July 16 15 minutes ago, Raven said: "Would you swap Kyle Walker for Dani Carvajal" is definitely one of the highlights of the media post match spouting. Can't help reading it as sung by Fish though. They endlessly talk about walker as the best right back around, in a generation or whatever He can't defend He was responsible for the extra time goal in semi v Croatia 2018 He was caught wrong side for goal v Switzerland Guys a defensive liability regardless how fast he is going forward 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Am Featha Taigh Nan Clach Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 4 hours ago, VincentGuerin said: Take this as a learning moment, Judy. I'd suggest you start with the Meisl brothers, Bela Guttman, and the cross polonation of football ideas with figures like Pozzo. Led to the great Hungarian team of the 50s, via developments in Austria, and ultimately to the Dutch version, which became known as Total Football, and which has now moved on to Spain through Crujff, principally. Some British figures were involved in this process, but mainly by going abroad. Obviously, Jewish migration to South America saw Central European ideas taken out there and have an influence on how the game developed in that part of the world. The holocaust had a huge impact on football. And the amount of movement around the continent in the mid-twentieth century led to huge changes in the game. It's a very interesting topic. Educate yourself, you barbarian. ^^^^ has read 'Inverting the Pyramid' 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 7 hours ago, Am Featha *****h Nan Clach said: ^^^^ has read 'Inverting the Pyramid' It's a great book. Sent me back to some of the source material as well. Got myself Wiel Coerver's book recently as well. Worth a look. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throbber Posted July 17 Share Posted July 17 13 hours ago, TheScarf said: When you see it written like this it’s almost criminal how easy their run was compared to Spain. It never gets talked about though, it’s an elephant the size of a continent in the room whenever they get to a tournament. The sad thing is that we will never know how they’d get on as they’ve had the easiest run of it 3 tournaments out of 4 and we’ve been robbed out of a few eye watering fixtures. If they were in Spain’s group I’d fancy them to have topped group with 7 points having beat Albania and Croatia, then think they’d scrape through v Georgia and then lost to Germany. That said if they’d somehow managed to get by Germany I’d have fancied them to beat a pretty awful France side and then the entire narrative around the camp would have been different going into the final after they’d knocked out the hosts and the favourites. I just want to see the most entertaining fixtures for them as opposed to wanting them being humped out which is an added bonus. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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