Scotland squad to face Poland (H) and Portugal (A)

[JS_FFC]

36 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

So apparently Che Adams pulled out while fully fit as he wants to "focus on settling at Torino".

This, allied with Greg Taylor and Forrest pulling out without obvious injuries, has the whiff of the olden days pre-Clarke, where a squad would be named and 4 or 5 guys would pull out, guaranteed. That SC consigned that pattern of behaviour to the bin is/was one of his major strengths as our manager.

Is it a herald of the wheels coming off?

Clarke is clearly losing the dressing room. He should have been gently shown the door after the Euros.

 

He’s taken this team as far as he can. With hindsight the downfall pretty much started this time last year.

 

Since then, we’ve had whatever the f**k happened with Elliott Anderson, a second straight abject failure at the finals by a team that acted like they were happy to just be there, Callum McGregor choosing to retire despite the fact that he still has another campaign in his legs, player after player choosing to represent other nations instead of Scotland, and now we are back to the days of perfectly healthy players dropping out.

 

I expect us to lose both games comfortably this week which should lead to a managerial change, but clearly what’s actually going to happen is Clarke is given the NL campaign that the suits believe he “deserves” for some reason, and only after the inevitable relegation in November does the phone call go in to Davie Moyes.

[JS_FFC]

2 minutes ago, the snudge said:

If that's the case then something has to give. 

Adams, Taylor, Forrest and anyone else who isn't injured that pulls out shouldn't pull on a Scotland shirt again or something's up in the camp and Clarke has to go because things have become toxic. 

It’s very clearly the latter given that none of the players have been pulling this nonsense until Clarke publicly castigated them post euros 

[2426255]

With Adams I'll personally give him the benefit of any doubt given he has consistently turned up when selected for squads. 

Celtic have shown a reluctance for releasing their players to Scotland during Clarke's tenure. The Turkey friendly comes to mind and I think there was another instance after that.

[Pie Of The Month]

Lewis Ferguson wasn't involved in the first Scotland squad after he signed for Bologna to focus on getting settled and that worked out well for all parties. I'd maybe wait and see what happens with Adams in the coming months before wanting him to never be called up again.

[the snudge]

10 minutes ago, Pie Of The Month said:

Lewis Ferguson wasn't involved in the first Scotland squad after he signed for Bologna to focus on getting settled and that worked out well for all parties. I'd maybe wait and see what happens with Adams in the coming months before wanting him to never be called up again.

Wasn't picked or pulled out?

[Kevin Finnerty]

22 minutes ago, JS_FFC said:

He’s taken this team as far as he can. With hindsight the downfall pretty much started this time last year.

 

"This time last year" we comfortably won our 5th qualifying match in a row. The following month saw us put in a very creditable away performance against the eventual champions of the tournament, in a game we were unlucky not to take something from. We did lose two friendlies against top-tier nations during those windows and ended the year by drawing our two remaining dead rubbers but I wouldn't say there was any sort of "downfall" evident at any point in 2023.

Edited September 4 by Kevin Finnerty

[Savage Henry]

1 hour ago, Gordopolis said:

So apparently Che Adams pulled out while fully fit as he wants to "focus on settling at Torino".

This, allied with Greg Taylor and Forrest pulling out without obvious injuries, has the whiff of the olden days pre-Clarke, where a squad would be named and 4 or 5 guys would pull out, guaranteed. That SC consigned that pattern of behaviour to the bin is/was one of his major strengths as our manager.

Is it a herald of the wheels coming off?

Seems to me to be completely fair enough, but it seems odd Ferguson was given that opportunity but Adams wasn’t.  
 

Would really rather Josh Nisbet wasn’t jetting off back to Australia to play Bahrain,  on that note.  
 

Still inclined to think it’s a bit of a non story, but worth watching.  

[JS_FFC]

9 minutes ago, Kevin Finnerty said:

"This time last year" we comfortably won our 5th qualifying match in a row. The following month saw us put in a very creditable away performance against the eventual champions of the tournament, in a game we were unlucky not to take something from. We did lose two friendlies against top-tier nations during those windows and ended the year by drawing our two remaining dead rubbers but I wouldn't say there was any sort of "downfall" evident at any point in 2023.

This time last year was when the Anderson thing happened though wasn’t it?

[Pie Of The Month]

3 minutes ago, the snudge said:

Wasn't picked or pulled out?

Wasn't picked after a conversation with Clarke. If the difference here is someone picking up the phone before or after the squad is announced I'm not sure that justifies not allowing them to play for Scotland ever again for something where none of us know what exactly has happened. 

[itzdrk]

Adams wouldn't be a miss if he didn't play again anyway.  Should just do it regardless. 

[accies1874]

38 minutes ago, JS_FFC said:

 

Since then, we’ve had whatever the f**k happened with Elliott Anderson, a second straight abject failure at the finals by a team that acted like they were happy to just be there, Callum McGregor choosing to retire despite the fact that he still has another campaign in his legs, player after player choosing to represent other nations instead of Scotland, and now we are back to the days of perfectly healthy players dropping out.

I don't think much of this stands to reason. 

The Anderson situation was bizarre, I'll give you that, but none of us except Barry Ferguson's Hat really know what happened. It could've been entirely on Anderson. 

I completely disagree that the team were just happy to be at the Euros. Clarke, the players + staff clearly put in an abject performance across the tournament, but of all their failings, I don't think you can deny that they wanted to succeed and were gutted to have delivered such crap. 

I get the sense that McGregor was always going to retire after the Euros. Robertson apparently said immediately after the Hungary game that some of the squad were going to retire, so McGregor had almost certainly made up his mind before then. These things happen, especially when you play about 50 games a season. 

Which players have chosen to represent other nations? Livramento, Gordon, Hackney, Anderson, whichever one of the Fletcher boys - these guys were all born in England, a team who are miles better than us and therefore naturally more appealing to someone born in that country. 

The final point could be a sign of things to come and that would be a concern, but it is worth remembering that we have had "perfectly healthy" players dropping out before, even when we were doing well/alright, so I'd probably wait and see on this one. 

[Jives Miguel]

When was the last time Adams performed for Scotland? The first 6 months of his Scotland career he was brilliant, but he's been abject for going on 3 years now. 2 goals in the whole of 2022, 2023 and 2024, which is 18(+) games. That's McBurnie levels of garbage. He won't be missed.

[craigkillie]

14 hours ago, accies1874 said:

As far as I can remember, Josh Doig has done a Porteous* and received three call-ups in three different years. It wasn't until the fourth year that Porteous received his debut and has been in every squad since, so just bide your time Josh!

*only I am calling it that, and only I care about this

I think he'll get a game off the bench in this window - Robertson has quite often been taken off in the last 10/15 minutes or so, albeit maybe that was more during the triple header era.

[A Diamond For Me]

1 hour ago, accies1874 said:

I don't think much of this stands to reason. 

The Anderson situation was bizarre, I'll give you that, but none of us except Barry Ferguson's Hat really know what happened. It could've been entirely on Anderson. 

I completely disagree that the team were just happy to be at the Euros. Clarke, the players + staff clearly put in an abject performance across the tournament, but of all their failings, I don't think you can deny that they wanted to succeed and were gutted to have delivered such crap. 

I get the sense that McGregor was always going to retire after the Euros. Robertson apparently said immediately after the Hungary game that some of the squad were going to retire, so McGregor had almost certainly made up his mind before then. These things happen, especially when you play about 50 games a season. 

Which players have chosen to represent other nations? Livramento, Gordon, Hackney, Anderson, whichever one of the Fletcher boys - these guys were all born in England, a team who are miles better than us and therefore naturally more appealing to someone born in that country. 

The final point could be a sign of things to come and that would be a concern, but it is worth remembering that we have had "perfectly healthy" players dropping out before, even when we were doing well/alright, so I'd probably wait and see on this one. 

 

I think it's fair to add here that Tommy Conway, born and raised in England, committed to Scotland at senior this summer as well, so it's not been one-way traffic in the last year.

[craigkillie]

Max Johnston likewise, though it was obviously a lot less likely that he'd play for England given the specific circumstances of him being born there.

[lubo_blaha]

21 hours ago, Ric said:

Of all the Scottish managers there's been, you'd imagine Clarke being the least likely to simp for the OF, but Barron's inclusion is an interesting one. He's a decent player, and possibly deserving of his call up (not sure though, that said they are friendly games). However for him to be called up the minute he switches to one of the OF leaves a bit of taste in my mouth it has to be said.

It’s worth stating that Barron wasn’t playing regularly for large chunks of his time at Aberdeen. He certainly didn’t warrant a place in the March squads. His form improved for the June window but we were well stocked in central midfield places. 

Now you have a combination or Barron playing regularly and midfield slots opening up from the likes of McGregor and Jack.

[Skyline Drifter]

3 hours ago, accies1874 said:

Which players have chosen to represent other nations? Livramento, Gordon, Hackney, Anderson, whichever one of the Fletcher boys - these guys were all born in England, a team who are miles better than us and therefore naturally more appealing to someone born in that country.

To be fair, as much as I'm not supportive of the conspiracy theory tin foil hats approach here, it's worth noting that two of those (Hackney and Anderson) had been part of the Scotland set up for a period, in Anderson's case the vast majority of his youth career, and have chosen to move back towards England. It's not quite the same as the Livramento / Gordon scenario which you are absolutely right about. Those two were and always have been English. They never at any point suggested any interest in playing for Scotland and us all wishing it was the case doesn't make it relevant that they didn't choose to.

2 hours ago, Jives Miguel said:

When was the last time Adams performed for Scotland? The first 6 months of his Scotland career he was brilliant, but he's been abject for going on 3 years now. 2 goals in the whole of 2022, 2023 and 2024, which is 18(+) games. That's McBurnie levels of garbage. He won't be missed.

I don't think he was ever 'brilliant'. He's never been brilliant in his career to be honest. He's a decent enough forward capable of playing regularly for a lower Premiership side in England. He's possibly the best we've got available to us but he's not a top tier striker at international level.

I think he last played particularly well for Scotland in the home game against Denmark he scored in which was in late 2021?

[Jaggy McJagface]

6 hours ago, Gordopolis said:

So apparently Che Adams pulled out while fully fit as he wants to "focus on settling at Torino".

This, allied with Greg Taylor and Forrest pulling out without obvious injuries, has the whiff of the olden days pre-Clarke, where a squad would be named and 4 or 5 guys would pull out, guaranteed. That SC consigned that pattern of behaviour to the bin is/was one of his major strengths as our manager.

Is it a herald of the wheels coming off?

Where are you hearing that?

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, Jaggy McJagface said:

Where are you hearing that?

Adams? It's all over the press that he's fit and asked to be left out.

I think he's just drawing his own conclusions on Forrest and Taylor if you meant those two.

[JagsCG]

52 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

Adams? It's all over the press that he's fit and asked to be left out.

Worth noting Clarke has denied this is the case.