10 Years Ago

[Fullerene]

54 minutes ago, MazzyStar said:

I think in the case of Croatia it was more the blood of other people that was spilled because of Croats (at least the last two times they’ve become “independent”) 

Croatia became independent when Yugoslavia abandoned the idea of being one country and they all went their separate ways.

Similarly the Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia.

[MazzyStar]

11 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

Croatia became independent when Yugoslavia abandoned the idea of being one country and they all went their separate ways.

Similarly the Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia.

And as soon as they became independent they began ethnically cleansing Croatia and parts of Bosnia of non-Croats, just like they’d done 50 years before. 

[Freedom Farter]

Just now, Fullerene said:

Croatia became independent when Yugoslavia abandoned the idea of being one country and they all went their separate ways.

Similarly the Soviet Union and Czechoslovakia.

The original comment being replied to suggested a parallel between the cases of Ireland and Croatia, which I don't think is appropriate.

In Croatia, it was always top down rather than bottom up how it was in Ireland. The Irish Citizens Army was the opposite of the Ustashe, for example. Then it was the spirit of that Ustashe-era movement which was drawn on again in the 1980s and 90s. Tudjman surrounded himself with literal former Ustashe. The like of Operation Storm has no equivalent in the Irish struggle.

[Binos]

Date went past with a whimper 

Not surprising considering the partisan nature of the media in this country 

One question should have been asked,  are yourselves and the country better or worse off than 10 years ago

[A Diamond For Me]

15 hours ago, AMMjag said:

Sturgeon is a textbook Tony Blair politician. Her priority was to consolidate power around herself and she was very effective at this (until she wasn't anymore). Admired by liberals for this, as well as her centrist brand of 'progressive' politics, without ever committing to meaningful social reform. Almost certainly a criminal too.

I don't doubt she is ideologically in favour of Scottish Independence, but any commitment to the cause was secondary to her political career.

This is most evidenced in the context of the 2019 election. Scotland had voted to remain in the EU but was being forced out of it via a UK wide referendum. The logical position of a Scottish National Party in this case is to say 'we will back your Withdrawal Bill on one very obvious and non-negotiable condition' - it was not to stand on a stage with Alistair Campbell and throw the party's weight behind a butthurt, London-centric Second Vote campaign for the sake of more UK seats. 

Salmond was more abrasive and divisive, but that is exactly what any leading Scottish nationalist ought to be and something Sturgeon was never prepared to become.

 

I think if that was the case she would have joined Labour as a student, not the SNP.  The SNP wasn't an auspicious vehicle for a good political career in the late 80s. 

[GordonS]

5 minutes ago, A Diamond For Me said:

 

I think if that was the case she would have joined Labour as a student, not the SNP.  The SNP wasn't an auspicious vehicle for a good political career in the late 80s. 

I salute you for engaging with that laughable drivel.

When Nicola Sturgeon joined the SNP in 1986 they had 2 MPs and had come fourth at the previous election with 17% of the vote. In Govan, which Sturgeon would eventually win, the SNP had barely saved their deposit, getting 5.9%. They were nowhere in any of the constituencies in Glasgow. She worked her arse off with no realistic prospect of success, no reward and little support from the wider party.

It's not like she was joining a strong party going through a slump; their previous high-water mark was 7 seats and 22%, and that lasted one term. The only thing they'd achieved in Glasgow was winning the 1973 Govan by-election, a seat they'd hold for all of 3 months.

Sturgeon and others like her knocked tens of thousands of doors, delivered hundreds of thousands of leaflets, fought no-hope elections and cajoled hundreds of others into helping them, and here on social media four decades later they get called career politicians by absolute know-nothings because they don't like her politics.

And that's not even the wrongest thing in the post to which you replied.

[Granny Danger]

2 hours ago, A Diamond For Me said:

 

I think if that was the case she would have joined Labour as a student, not the SNP.  The SNP wasn't an auspicious vehicle for a good political career in the late 80s. 

Spot on.  I’ve no doubt @AMMjag read that drivel somewhere, thought it sounded good and failed to consider the very obvious that you have pointed out.

[AMMjag]

5 hours ago, A Diamond For Me said:

 

I think if that was the case she would have joined Labour as a student, not the SNP.  The SNP wasn't an auspicious vehicle for a good political career in the late 80s. 

My post was a criticism of her leadership of the party. I've already said I believe she is ideologically committed to independence, despite the utterly ruinous legacy that she and her Ol' Man Danger type hangers-on have left for the cause.

[Wee-Bey]

Sturgeon's initial political stuff was around the CND was it not?

[GTee]

I can't think of a valid excuse to vote against your country running it's own affairs. Voting against based on the dislike of some individuals or unreliable future predictions is pretty lame in my opinion. But that's what happened, and we'll just get on with it.

[invergowrie arab]

The SNP leadership put out another f**king useless leaflet this weekend rehashing all the arguments from 2014.

Whilst they they are all correct  arguments nobody persuadable hasn't already been persuaded by them.

The biggest failure in the SNP's (for there is no movement) leadership since Brexit had been a failure to press Westminster politicians on what the democratic route to an independent Scotland is.

Building a bit of outrage really wouldn't go amiss at the moment. A new government, in a week where the new PM had said we can never vote on indy under him as he doesn't think it would be good for us, creates a golden opportunity to press him on what the Scottish electorate would have to do to bring about the conditions for independence.

It's not for the SNP to come up with some legal wheeze, it's incumbent upon Westminster to set out how are voluntary union of equals works. 

They won't do that themselves though so it should be brought up in Westminster every week as well as the Scottish Govt pressing for an answer on this.

[GTee]

You don't need a reason for wanting your Country to run itself.

The vast majority of countries do this. It's normal. 

[TheScarf]

I was just thinking, is there any other Union of countries like the UK in the world?  Where for some stuff its the UK and for other stuff, like most sports, its Scotland, England, North Ireland and Wales? I can't think of any.  I think there's some kind of Balkans treaty involving Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, but obviously they're all separate, independent countries.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

3 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

I was just thinking, is there any other Union of countries like the UK in the world?  Where for some stuff its the UK and for other stuff, like most sports, its Scotland, England, North Ireland and Wales? I can't think of any.  I think there's some kind of Balkans treaty involving Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, but obviously they're all separate, independent countries.

The Cook Islands and Niue Island are both part of New Zealand, but act like soverign states in a lot of ways. The Faroes seem to be very seperate from Denmark as well.

Here are the FIFA nations who aren't in the UN. It's mostly seems to be the dregs of the British Empire.

[Jacksgranda]

2 hours ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

The Cook Islands and Niue Island are both part of New Zealand, but act like soverign states in a lot of ways. The Faroes seem to be very seperate from Denmark as well.

Here are the FIFA nations who aren't in the UN. It's mostly seems to be the dregs of the British Empire.

It's mostly not.

[invergowrie arab]

7 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

It's mostly not.

14/26 look like they are British/ex British to me. 

[Jacksgranda]

14 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

14/26 look like they are British/ex British to me. 

Even including Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland as "dregs of the British Empire" it's only 11.

[MazzyStar]

2 hours ago, TheScarf said:

I think there's some kind of Balkans treaty involving Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia

Is there?

[welshbairn]

7 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Even including Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland as "dregs of the British Empire" it's only 11.

I think he's counting the US colonies as dregs of the British Empire, though they were never ruled by Britain and weren't claimed by the US until the turn of the 19th/20th centuries, long after the UK had been booted out of the US in 1776.

[Fullerene]

3 hours ago, TheScarf said:

I was just thinking, is there any other Union of countries like the UK in the world?  Where for some stuff its the UK and for other stuff, like most sports, its Scotland, England, North Ireland and Wales? I can't think of any.  I think there's some kind of Baltic Treaty involving Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia, but obviously they're all separate, independent countries.

FTFY