dogmc Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Well I thought that they would be genenerally city based with drawn out Catchment area's. Glasgow - taking in southwest and west of Scotland Edinburgh - taking in Fife and Lothian Borders Stirling - taking in central Scotland Dundee/Perth - taking in north of the Tay and Angus Aberdeen - taking in Aberdeenshire, Banff etc I realise this doesn't include inverness or the highland and island areas however these are the areas with concentrated population. I don't know how they will market this though. Rugby isn't the biggest sport in Scotland and is only healthy supported really on a national level. Yes Glasgow do well but Edinburgh and then into leagues are probably struggling to attract the fans. I wish the SRU luck with this venture It took years for even Glasgow n embra to attract decent crowds. It's not that long ago that 4 figure crowds were seen as a good turnout. The top tier of the club league are all semi pro anyway, really don't see how this new idea will be sustainable and what it's likely to achieve. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonhamer doon south Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 2 hours ago, dogmc said: It took years for even Glasgow n embra to attract decent crowds. It's not that long ago that 4 figure crowds were seen as a good turnout. The top tier of the club league are all semi pro anyway, really don't see how this new idea will be sustainable and what it's likely to achieve. Well i can only assume its to progress towards a truly 3rd Pro team or its to be able to better compete in the B & I cup. If these semi pro league clubs can bring in 4 figure crowds they will be doing well. Probably only when Glasgow and Edinburgh are playing away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Well i can only assume its to progress towards a truly 3rd Pro team or its to be able to better compete in the B & I cup. If these semi pro league clubs can bring in 4 figure crowds they will be doing well. Probably only when Glasgow and Edinburgh are playing away. Yep I just don't see them getting the crowds needed to be sustainable. The top tier is already semi pro so surely a better idea to subsidise those clubs (assistance with strength & conditioning facilities, 4G pitches etc). Maybe look at a semi pro district championship playing home n away with winners going to b&i cup?? If established teams struggle for crowds where will the appeal be in artificial ones? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonhamer doon south Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 2 minutes ago, dogmc said: Yep I just don't see them getting the crowds needed to be sustainable. The top tier is already semi pro so surely a better idea to subsidise those clubs (assistance with strength & conditioning facilities, 4G pitches etc). Maybe look at a semi pro district championship playing home n away with winners going to b&i cup?? If established teams struggle for crowds where will the appeal be in artificial ones? As with many clubs in any sport the history of that club means a lot more than just simply creating a team. These teams have to compliment the gap between domestic clubs and the pro ones. It will suit players who can better find their level and it will probably improve coaching standards as coaches will find their level. I was thinking district championship but the SRU probably have to re draw the district lines. It could work but marketing is critical. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 As with many clubs in any sport the history of that club means a lot more than just simply creating a team. These teams have to compliment the gap between domestic clubs and the pro ones. It will suit players who can better find their level and it will probably improve coaching standards as coaches will find their level. I was thinking district championship but the SRU probably have to re draw the district lines. It could work but marketing is critical. Yep I think a semi pro district competition would be a better way to give development time to young pros and give the best of the club players a chance in the shop window. If it was home n away it would be enough games to help development but not so many as to affect the clubs playing schedules (maybe warm up games n b&i cupto bulk out playing time if required). More likely to get crowds for that than artificial sides. Caley reds have had two seasons of playing a handful of friendlies n I've heard they are relatively well attended. There's also the club international team during 6n which could be used more for development players (maybe even have the old probables v possibles trial revived for that??) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonhamer doon south Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, dogmc said: Yep I think a semi pro district competition would be a better way to give development time to young pros and give the best of the club players a chance in the shop window. If it was home n away it would be enough games to help development but not so many as to affect the clubs playing schedules (maybe warm up games n b&i cupto bulk out playing time if required). More likely to get crowds for that than artificial sides. Caley reds have had two seasons of playing a handful of friendlies n I've heard they are relatively well attended. There's also the club international team during 6n which could be used more for development players (maybe even have the old probables v possibles trial revived for that??) Yeah good post i think instead of just hearing a wee piece from the bbc there needs to be more information on what's going to happen and cover some of the points you have made. If its 6 teams then maybe twice home and away for a 20 fixture league and play offs. Otherwise i don't think there is enough games. But that's if these clubs are separate entities to the domestic teams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Yeah good post i think instead of just hearing a wee piece from the bbc there needs to be more information on what's going to happen and cover some of the points you have made. If its 6 teams then maybe twice home and away for a 20 fixture league and play offs. Otherwise i don't think there is enough games. But that's if these clubs are separate entities to the domestic teams. Would also be good to know where the funding is coming from, if the budgets have really been thought through and if the playing standard will definitely plug the gap between top clubs n pros. I'm thinking in particular of fact sru is trying to bin 7s side just as it's bearing fruit in terms of being competitive as a side and developing guys like Lee Jones Hoyland n Horne. If we are robbing that money from something which is working for us to pay for a project full of unknowns then it would be pretty staggering.....actually it's the sru it would be entirely like them [emoji38] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Its only £100k per team a year over 5 years, total £3m. Its not many games so don't know where the money is coming from to pay for players, unless it's all going to be institute of sport players loaned out to get game time 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 In terms of games it sounds like 6 b&I cup then 10 league then playoffs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonhamer doon south Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 But is the player pool for these teams plucked from the region and not good enough Glasgow/Edinburgh players. Might be a good place to give u20 players meaningful and competitive game time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Its only £100k per team a year over 5 years, total £3m. Its not many games so don't know where the money is coming from to pay for players, unless it's all going to be institute of sport players loaned out to get game time Just doesn't add up for me. The goal is to get our young players more game time at a higher level but there is no guarantee that this will be a higher level than the current top tier. Cash could be better used developing the established club sides or developing a district championship. Feels like sru are all over the shop here essentially because they don't want to expose themselves financially to a 3rd pro side. It's a cheap option which doesn't seem to address any of our needs which could end up being a loss maker. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Just doesn't add up for me. The goal is to get our young players more game time at a higher level but there is no guarantee that this will be a higher level than the current top tier. Cash could be better used developing the established club sides or developing a district championship. Feels like sru are all over the shop here essentially because they don't want to expose themselves financially to a 3rd pro side. It's a cheap option which doesn't seem to address any of our needs which could end up being a loss maker. Perhaps, but look at it another way. Emphasis and money on these semi pro sides could lead to greater profile thus greater support; especially if they compete in B and I cup. This would then give the SRU a yardstick to gauge support for 3rd pro team whilst potentially developing more gametime for promising talent as well as an easier softer transition to full pro. If the SRU took a plunge now and invested all the money in a 3rd pro team.... and it failed; then that would be a big step backwards and a kick in the baws to rugby in Scotland. Perhaps slowly slowly wins the race? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 Perhaps, but look at it another way. Emphasis and money on these semi pro sides could lead to greater profile thus greater support; especially if they compete in B and I cup. This would then give the SRU a yardstick to gauge support for 3rd pro team whilst potentially developing more gametime for promising talent as well as an easier softer transition to full pro. If the SRU took a plunge now and invested all the money in a 3rd pro team.... and it failed; then that would be a big step backwards and a kick in the baws to rugby in Scotland. Perhaps slowly slowly wins the race? Its a fair point but i just dont see how the numbers stack up here..... £100k per team is nowhere near enough. There are guys in semi pro rugby picking up £15k to £20k.....you couldnt fund a 7s teamfor £100k and thats before factoring in facilities etc. Grangemouth spent more than double that on an indoor training facility (its still tiny) and they are a small club in the lower tiers.....how far would £100k really go?? Would players be keen to leave established club sides where they know they will be paid to play for an artificial team with no history n no current fanbase? The top club sides subsidise themselves through large membership bases (playing and non playing) sponsorships, bar takings, hire of the facilities for events etc. The new sides would have zero guarantee of any of those revenue streams. The club sides also have established community n commercial links and rely on an army of volunteers for catering transport etc etc. None of that is in place currently for artificial sides or can be put into place at the drop of a hat. Im all for properly planning the evolution of a 3rd pro side over time rather than cobble it all together on the back of a fag packet ( pro12 ffs!!) but this looks like its been poorly thought out. I also acknowledge if instead the top tier club sides receive a subsidy then the clubs below will moan but at least there are tangible benefits from established sides becoming better. Its surely a safer investment. I don't see how diverting players from a semi pro club that is definitely sustainable to a tier of......um semi pro rugby that might well not be is going to be very progressive. I dont even see a guarantee that the players will be exposed to better rugby.Maybe im just curmudgeonly n cynical or maybe its simply not been explained very well but the sru does have a desperate track record during the pro era. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 It seems daft to put semi-pro quasi-elite rugby in Edinburgh & Glasgow where it's going to have to compete for audience with the pro teams (who are better) and local clubs (who are far more established) The natural place to try this parts of the country that are a fair drive away from Edinburgh & Glasgow. So we'd effectively be looking at upgrading the big clubs in Ayr, Aberdeen, Dundee, Stirling, at least one Borders Town and somewhere else to minor league franchises This would also mean that if support for any of them really took off they'd be well placed to upgrade to major league status should the SRU want to go for a 3rd team 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 For me the only way this is going to work is taking the top six club sides at the moment, but caveat of decent facilities and location so they are spread out well. Then have a draft off all the institute of sport and other Glasgow & Edinburgh players who are going to be involved. If each club gets 7/8 players from there the £100k maybe pays for another 3/4 then they are still looking at funding 15 go 20 guys pt a year. Which is probably close to what most of them are already. Hopefully they may be able to get a few teams in the European challenge cup and the rest in the trophy for a few more matches although don't know if that clashes with b&I cup 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 For me the only way this is going to work is taking the top six club sides at the moment, but caveat of decent facilities and location so they are spread out well. Then have a draft off all the institute of sport and other Glasgow & Edinburgh players who are going to be involved. If each club gets 7/8 players from there the £100k maybe pays for another 3/4 then they are still looking at funding 15 go 20 guys pt a year. Which is probably close to what most of them are already. Hopefully they may be able to get a few teams in the European challenge cup and the rest in the trophy for a few more matches although don't know if that clashes with b&I cup Sounds a lot more sensible imo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingscot Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 I've never been keen on a split out of the Premiership, however I recognise there needs to be something that bridges the level between the Pros and Premiership level. It is a huge gulf. Some clubs have been itching for this for years too and wanting to 'progress'. If we can up the levels at the top end, have reserve Glasgow and Edinburgh and academy players in it and improve the overall quality then fair enough. If this works, happy to give it time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doonhamer doon south Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Saturday 5th of August we will hopefully find out more. After given this a wee bit of thought i think the SRU are taking a risk but one that may pay off. This should be the new District Championship and with a redrawn map of what those districts are I think this will bring the biggest benefit to fans players and coaches. Run over the course of the season these franchises i think should be named after the district the franchise serves rather than match a club name or named after the place they play. So avoid naming these franchises Glasgow or Edinburgh the SRU should be inventive with this. I just don't want some half assed competition that doesn't last more than a season due to a lack of interest or lack of sponsorship or backing/funding. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted July 31, 2017 Share Posted July 31, 2017 Saturday 5th of August we will hopefully find out more. After given this a wee bit of thought i think the SRU are taking a risk but one that may pay off. This should be the new District Championship and with a redrawn map of what those districts are I think this will bring the biggest benefit to fans players and coaches. Run over the course of the season these franchises i think should be named after the district the franchise serves rather than match a club name or named after the place they play. So avoid naming these franchises Glasgow or Edinburgh the SRU should be inventive with this. I just don't want some half assed competition that doesn't last more than a season due to a lack of interest or lack of sponsorship or backing/funding. Think that's the only possible way it can work tbh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaggy Snake Posted August 1, 2017 Share Posted August 1, 2017 http://www.pro12rugby.com/2017/08/01/statement-expansion-guinness-pro14-championship/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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