Rugby Union

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

6 hours ago, Mark Connolly said:

Graeme Beveridge got 6 caps, and retired in 2006...

Sold!

 

[Detournement]

Hopefully Thompson steps up after last week. McLean needs to put in a performance after being out for a while as well.

Berghan being back is great news for the 6 Nations.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

@Mark Connolly @Savage HenryHere ya go, the best Scotland Team (that I can remember) since around 2004/5

Brief rules are that, to spare tedious arguments, all of these players are conditioned to the exact standard of each other and international rugby generally. So I DO NOT WANT TO TO HEAR any complaints about "so and so wouldn't be big/fit/strong enough". Also, in most cases I've tried to pick a team that might work. Specifically in who I chose as replacements, there might be better players but I've picked ones to make an impact/compliment the starting team. 

Props - We've had some decent LHs over the years on reflection, despite it being a problem position at times. Dickinson, Douglas and Sutherland spring to mind, but starting with an emotional choice and it's Al Jacobsen, a man from a bygone era. At TH it's fairly clear for me, Fagerson is largely brilliant but the impact W.P. Nel had was insane in 2015. After what felt like decades of being told how good a scrummager Ewan Murray was while he continually looked perplexed at conceding mountains of penalties and refusing to play on Sunday, Nel turned up and was immediately a huge improvement in the scrum and loose. Still can't quite replace him in the squad at 35. 

Hooker - In recent years Brown and McInally have looked world class at times, although unfortunately those have been fleeting due to injuries. Gordon Bulloch is probably the earliest player I remember appreciating for Scotland, a top hooker and test lion. 

Lock - Jonny Gray has been a great player for Scotland without ever really pushing himself on to become a top modern lock. His brother had so much potential but again injuries had a big impact on him. Thought about including Jason White as a lock but, in the end, decided on Scott Murray and Nathan Hines, a pretty perfect combo in their time. Two top class players

Back Row - Sorry Ally Hogg, Johnnie Beattie, Kelly Brown, Jason White (again), Jamie Ritchie, Blair Cowan and John Hardie. Class players all. 
It has to be Barclay, Watson and Taylor though. JB was top class in two spells with Scotland, and may have made a Lions tour if his international career wasn't curtailed at his peak. A great all round player but maybe the best breakdown operator I've seen for Scotland. 
Watson is a test Lion, an insanely hard man and pretty handy at the breakdown too. 
Simon Taylor is another who could've gone so much further were it not for injuries, but remains probably the most skillful forward I remember playing for Scotland. Still made 66 caps and 2 Lions tours too.
 
Scrum Half is maybe the hardest position. Ali Price is a Lion now, Greig was such a key part of our transformation from absolute nae users to sex gods, and Cusiter and Lawson were both excellent players in shite sides.
Mike Blair for me though, a wonderful all round scrum half and leader. 
Fly Half - Finn, there's no real competition. Hastings is excellent, and I enjoy the Dan Parks revisionism (he largely did what he was asked to do pretty well imo!) but Finn has at times been the best fly half in the world. A joy when he's on song and endless entertainment regardless.

Centres is another tricky one, which if you'd told someone in c.2010 they would've assumed for very different reasons. Harris has surprised us all (me more than anyone), Pete Horne deserves a shout for his role in some big wins, Mark Bennett was insanely good before his knee exploded and is still young enough to have another go. Johnson is quietly great, Redpath could be the best of the lot. I've probably missed a few too. 
I'm going for Jones at 13. we all know he's not really that good except with Scotland, and his defence isn't great, but he has scored some ridiculously good and important tries. Seems to have a great connection with Finn and loves playing for Scotland. 
At 12 I'm picking my favourite and that is Alex Dunbar. A shame his career petered out as he was a great pillar between Finn and an exciting 13. Great in defence and at the breakdown, always happy to carry into traffic and deceptively quick. Strict instructions to NEVER kick the ball. 

Wings - I've gone for Duhan and Paterson. It should really be Maitland over Paterson, a great player who came into a woeful team and immediately looked a class act. Being a main man for Saracens who actually did it for Scotland too, there's no doubting his quality. Was such a good 14 covering Seymour and Hogg, wish we could have seen him at his best with Duhan. Paterson was an exceptional kicker, however, very quick and not too bad defensively or under the high ball himself. Having to be a talisman to duds for so long was too much for him in the end. Duhan is ridiculous, thank you. 

FB - Hoggy 

Honourable back three mentions to the aforementioned Seymour, Visser who is the first winger who actually scored barrels of tries in this era, Sean Lamont for giving it a go and wee Darcy.

Team: Hogg, Paterson, Jones, Dunbar, VdM, Russell, Blair, Jacobsen, Bulloch, Nel, Murray, Hines, Barclay, Watson, Taylor. Rep: McInally, Sutherland, Fagerson, White, Beattie, Greig, Bennett, Maitland

The backs replacements are configured so that this team would provoke the greatest amount of discussion of Laidlaw/Paterson/Hogg at 10 in the case Russell departs.   

[John Lambies Doos]

[mention=37888]Mark Connolly[/mention] [mention=215]Savage Henry[/mention]Here ya go, the best Scotland Team (that I can remember) since around 2004/5
Brief rules are that, to spare tedious arguments, all of these players are conditioned to the exact standard of each other and international rugby generally. So I DO NOT WANT TO TO HEAR any complaints about "so and so wouldn't be big/fit/strong enough". Also, in most cases I've tried to pick a team that might work. Specifically in who I chose as replacements, there might be better players but I've picked ones to make an impact/compliment the starting team. 
Props - We've had some decent LHs over the years on reflection, despite it being a problem position at times. Dickinson, Douglas and Sutherland spring to mind, but starting with an emotional choice and it's Al Jacobsen, a man from a bygone era. At TH it's fairly clear for me, Fagerson is largely brilliant but the impact W.P. Nel had was insane in 2015. After what felt like decades of being told how good a scrummager Ewan Murray was while he continually looked perplexed at conceding mountains of penalties and refusing to play on Sunday, Nel turned up and was immediately a huge improvement in the scrum and loose. Still can't quite replace him in the squad at 35. 
Hooker - In recent years Brown and McInally have looked world class at times, although unfortunately those have been fleeting due to injuries. Gordon Bulloch is probably the earliest player I remember appreciating for Scotland, a top hooker and test lion. 
Lock - Jonny Gray has been a great player for Scotland without ever really pushing himself on to become a top modern lock. His brother had so much potential but again injuries had a big impact on him. Thought about including Jason White as a lock but, in the end, decided on Scott Murray and Nathan Hines, a pretty perfect combo in their time. Two top class players
Back Row - Sorry Ally Hogg, Johnnie Beattie, Kelly Brown, Jason White (again), Jamie Ritchie, Blair Cowan and John Hardie. Class players all. 
It has to be Barclay, Watson and Taylor though. JB was top class in two spells with Scotland, and may have made a Lions tour if his international career wasn't curtailed at his peak. A great all round player but maybe the best breakdown operator I've seen for Scotland. 
Watson is a test Lion, an insanely hard man and pretty handy at the breakdown too. 
Simon Taylor is another who could've gone so much further were it not for injuries, but remains probably the most skillful forward I remember playing for Scotland. Still made 66 caps and 2 Lions tours too.
 
Scrum Half is maybe the hardest position. Ali Price is a Lion now, Greig was such a key part of our transformation from absolute nae users to sex gods, and Cusiter and Lawson were both excellent players in shite sides.
Mike Blair for me though, a wonderful all round scrum half and leader. 
Fly Half - Finn, there's no real competition. Hastings is excellent, and I enjoy the Dan Parks revisionism (he largely did what he was asked to do pretty well imo!) but Finn has at times been the best fly half in the world. A joy when he's on song and endless entertainment regardless.
Centres is another tricky one, which if you'd told someone in c.2010 they would've assumed for very different reasons. Harris has surprised us all (me more than anyone), Pete Horne deserves a shout for his role in some big wins, Mark Bennett was insanely good before his knee exploded and is still young enough to have another go. Johnson is quietly great, Redpath could be the best of the lot. I've probably missed a few too. 
I'm going for Jones at 13. we all know he's not really that good except with Scotland, and his defence isn't great, but he has scored some ridiculously good and important tries. Seems to have a great connection with Finn and loves playing for Scotland. 
At 12 I'm picking my favourite and that is Alex Dunbar. A shame his career petered out as he was a great pillar between Finn and an exciting 13. Great in defence and at the breakdown, always happy to carry into traffic and deceptively quick. Strict instructions to NEVER kick the ball. 
Wings - I've gone for Duhan and Paterson. It should really be Maitland over Paterson, a great player who came into a woeful team and immediately looked a class act. Being a main man for Saracens who actually did it for Scotland too, there's no doubting his quality. Was such a good 14 covering Seymour and Hogg, wish we could have seen him at his best with Duhan. Paterson was an exceptional kicker, however, very quick and not too bad defensively or under the high ball himself. Having to be a talisman to duds for so long was too much for him in the end. Duhan is ridiculous, thank you. 
FB - Hoggy 
Honourable back three mentions to the aforementioned Seymour, Visser who is the first winger who actually scored barrels of tries in this era, Sean Lamont for giving it a go and wee Darcy.
Team: Hogg, Paterson, Jones, Dunbar, VdM, Russell, Blair, Jacobsen, Bulloch, Nel, Murray, Hines, Barclay, Watson, Taylor. Rep: McInally, Sutherland, Fagerson, White, Beattie, Greig, Bennett, Maitland
The backs replacements are configured so that this team would provoke the greatest amount of discussion of Laidlaw/Paterson/Hogg at 10 in the case Russell departs.   

Decent team, agree with most, but would most certainly have Tom Smith in as prop(same era as bulloch) and I wouldn't have Patterson in team. He was a great kicker but really best of a bad bunch for his time. Maitland for me.

[Mark Connolly]

3 hours ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

 

Team: Hogg, Paterson, Jones, Dunbar, VdM, Russell, Blair, Jacobsen, Bulloch, Nel, Murray, Hines, Barclay, Watson, Taylor. Rep: McInally, Sutherland, Fagerson, White, Beattie, Greig, Bennett, Maitland

The backs replacements are configured so that this team would provoke the greatest amount of discussion of Laidlaw/Paterson/Hogg at 10 in the case Russell departs.   

Hard to argue with much of this, but I'm still going to

Cusiter at 9 for me. If I've got that backline, I want the ball in Finn's hands as fast as possible, and he's the man for that. Caveat is that if it's pishing it down, I want Blair instead.

Paterson was a great rugby player, and an outstanding goalkicker, but Maitland is simply the best winger I have seen play for Scotland. He is an absolutely outstanding defender, and such a genuine threat in attack that it creates space for guys like Hogg and Jones inside. I'd probably have Tommy Seymour in a 15 ahead of Paterson for very similar reasons, but Paterson would be on my bench for his versatility at 10 and across the back 3. Finn's goalkicking is reliable enough, and we're scoring tries with that team anyway.

Scott Murray was also an excellent player, but I'd have Hines and Jonny Gray ahead of him. The workrate and impact at the breakdown would be necessary to provide the quick ball that backline needs, and as good as lineout forward as he was, the options with Gray and Hines, alongside Taylor and Barclay who were vastly underrated jumpers, could easily balance out not having him as a target.

Jamie Ritchie would probably sneak onto my bench.

You're the Head Coach though, and I back you to the hilt. Unless we lose, in which case, I'll be leaking stories that your continued consultancy role at Hibs has caused you to lose the trust of players and staff.

ETA: Having seen JLD's post and checked the dates, I had thought Tom Smith had retired from international rugby after the 2003 RWC, but he actually went on until 2005. Sorry Chunk, you're on the bench now too, this is no contest.

Edited January 21, 2022 by Mark Connolly

[peasy23]

A huge blow for Scotland with news that Owen Farrell might miss the game at Murrayfield. A danger then that Eddie might pick a 9-10-12 that actually works.

[Allan Jacobsen]

4 hours ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

Props - We've had some decent LHs over the years on reflection, despite it being a problem position at times. Dickinson, Douglas and Sutherland spring to mind, but starting with an emotional choice and it's Al Jacobsen, a man from a bygone era.

Good guy.

1 hour ago, Mark Connolly said:

Sorry Chunk, you're on the bench now too, this is no contest.

w**k.

[Mark Connolly]

8 minutes ago, Allan Jacobsen said:

Good guy.

w**k.

Alan Jacobson is comfortably the best Scottish loosehead of the professional era that isn't named Tom Smith. There is no shame in that.

In other news, Scott Steele and Huw Jones both started for Quins tonight, Jones has scored. Meanwhile, Joe Marler has just been yellow carded by Mike Adamson for being a snidey wee c**t., although the official reason was deliberately standing on Rory Kockott's hand after the whistle had gone.

 

Edit for odd formatting

Edited January 21, 2022 by Mark Connolly

[GAD]

Marler was lucky not to be sent off last week as well I think. Maybe he's  doing that thing where he's trying to get suspended so he doesn't have to play for England again.

[ajwffc]

1 hour ago, Mark Connolly said:

Alan Jacobson is comfortably the best Scottish loosehead of the professional era that isn't named Tom Smith. There is no shame in that.

In other news, Scott Steele and Huw Jones both started for Quins tonight, Jones has scored. Meanwhile, Joe Marler has just been yellow carded by Mike Adamson for being a snidey wee c**t., although the official reason was deliberately standing on Rory Kockott's hand after the whistle had gone.

 

Edit for odd formatting

[ajwffc]

a close game in Edinburgh tonight Edinburgh 66-3 Brive

[peasy23]

Good news for Scotland's women, they now only need to win one game to qualify for the world cup.

[Detournement]

I see 29 year old Scottish qualified Kiwi Angus Williams started at TH for Edinburgh last night. That probably puts him 5th or 6th in the depth chart for the 6 Nations.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

13 hours ago, Mark Connolly said:

Hard to argue with much of this, but I'm still going to

Cusiter at 9 for me. If I've got that backline, I want the ball in Finn's hands as fast as possible, and he's the man for that. Caveat is that if it's pishing it down, I want Blair instead.

Paterson was a great rugby player, and an outstanding goalkicker, but Maitland is simply the best winger I have seen play for Scotland. He is an absolutely outstanding defender, and such a genuine threat in attack that it creates space for guys like Hogg and Jones inside. I'd probably have Tommy Seymour in a 15 ahead of Paterson for very similar reasons, but Paterson would be on my bench for his versatility at 10 and across the back 3. Finn's goalkicking is reliable enough, and we're scoring tries with that team anyway.

Scott Murray was also an excellent player, but I'd have Hines and Jonny Gray ahead of him. The workrate and impact at the breakdown would be necessary to provide the quick ball that backline needs, and as good as lineout forward as he was, the options with Gray and Hines, alongside Taylor and Barclay who were vastly underrated jumpers, could easily balance out not having him as a target.

Jamie Ritchie would probably sneak onto my bench.

You're the Head Coach though, and I back you to the hilt. Unless we lose, in which case, I'll be leaking stories that your continued consultancy role at Hibs has caused you to lose the trust of players and staff.

ETA: Having seen JLD's post and checked the dates, I had thought Tom Smith had retired from international rugby after the 2003 RWC, but he actually went on until 2005. Sorry Chunk, you're on the bench now too, this is no contest.

All good comments! I was always gonna forget one and that one was Tom Smith, he goes in and Chunk to the bench. V v good point re Blair v Cusiter, I might just keep him in there as while CC's delivery was quicker I don't think Blair was slow himself.

Also yeah, head ruling heart Maitland has to go in with Paterson dropping to the bench. On his kicking it's important to remember as well that during his great runs of consecutive kicks at least he made Parks take a lot of the trickier ones.

I think you're right that Maitland is just the best all round winger of those to pick. It really can't be overstated the obvious upgrade from a series of guys who were "big" (i.e. Walker) "fast" (i.e. Danielli) and "skillful" (i.e. Webster, Max Evans) for just a great player. 

In terms of playing style I think we'd be dominant in the scrum and with JB, the Mish and Dunbar at their peak would win a lot of breakdown penalties. Kicks to the corner where we have 4 excellent lineout jumpers and some time for a few toony special plays, get Dunbar in the lineout! 

When a clean turnover is won we'll get the ball in Finn's hands as quickly as possible and look for lines from Jones and Duhan or Hogg getting to the outside.

A slightly unfashionable 1331 in phase play, with Simon Taylor using his soft hands and skill on the channels to support Duhan, Watson combining with Maitland on the right. Not the strongest carriers in the middle necessarily but should do alright with quick ball, and we'll be looking for Russell and Hogg to knit that together at pace with few one out carries, and capitalise on gaps and half breaks to get the ball quickly to our dangerous players. Everyone breathing out their arse after 60 minutes and Ireland still grind us into the ground 

[Mark Connolly]

1 hour ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

All good comments! I was always gonna forget one and that one was Tom Smith, he goes in and Chunk to the bench. V v good point re Blair v Cusiter, I might just keep him in there as while CC's delivery was quicker I don't think Blair was slow himself.

Also yeah, head ruling heart Maitland has to go in with Paterson dropping to the bench. On his kicking it's important to remember as well that during his great runs of consecutive kicks at least he made Parks take a lot of the trickier ones.

I think you're right that Maitland is just the best all round winger of those to pick. It really can't be overstated the obvious upgrade from a series of guys who were "big" (i.e. Walker) "fast" (i.e. Danielli) and "skillful" (i.e. Webster, Max Evans) for just a great player. 

In terms of playing style I think we'd be dominant in the scrum and with JB, the Mish and Dunbar at their peak would win a lot of breakdown penalties. Kicks to the corner where we have 4 excellent lineout jumpers and some time for a few toony special plays, get Dunbar in the lineout! 

When a clean turnover is won we'll get the ball in Finn's hands as quickly as possible and look for lines from Jones and Duhan or Hogg getting to the outside.

A slightly unfashionable 1331 in phase play, with Simon Taylor using his soft hands and skill on the channels to support Duhan, Watson combining with Maitland on the right. Not the strongest carriers in the middle necessarily but should do alright with quick ball, and we'll be looking for Russell and Hogg to knit that together at pace with few one out carries, and capitalise on gaps and half breaks to get the ball quickly to our dangerous players. Everyone breathing out their arse after 60 minutes and Ireland still grind us into the ground 

Italy by 10

[John Lambies Doos]

Why are Scotland playing 7s again this weekend. Thought that was abolished for a GB team?

[ajwffc]

Why are Scotland playing 7s again this weekend. Thought that was abolished for a GB team?

That was just a temporary change for the Olympics and a shortend sevens season. The plan was allways for the home nations to return.

[John Lambies Doos]

That was just a temporary change for the Olympics and a shortend sevens season. The plan was allways for the home nations to return.

Ah cheers[emoji106] Can now go back to supporting them.

[John Lambies Doos]

What were ulster doing there ffs

[Mark Connolly]

Ronan O'Gara is such a fucking knob