Rugby Union

[Mark Connolly]

Edinburgh shooting themselves in the foot with some really daft penalties.

Odd incident towards the end where Immelman made a clear line break, so one of the Ospreys just tackled the ref. Game stops, restarts with an Edinburgh scrum.

[Detournement]

Finn on good form for Racing against Toulouse. 

Racing have dominated but are only 5-6 up at HT. 

[Todd_is_God]

Likely no chance at all of this, but if anyone has (or knows of) 2 tickets for Saturday going spare I'd be more than interested in them.

[Left Back]

2 hours ago, Todd_is_God said:

Likely no chance at all of this, but if anyone has (or knows of) 2 tickets for Saturday going spare I'd be more than interested in them.

I’ll post some pictures from the ground.  Will be almost like you’re there.

[Todd_is_God]

28 minutes ago, Left Back said:

I’ll post some pictures from the ground.  Will be almost like you’re there.

Thanks

[Left Back]

Final of the sevens just about to start on youtube.  Aus v SA.

[Left Back]

SA score two tries from blatant forward passes to win it.  Ref has his eyes painted on.

[Shipa]

Squad update:

Jamie Bhatti has withdrawn due to injury and been replaced by Allan Dell.

Josh Bayliss will continue his recovery from concussion at Bath and Sean Maitland has returned to Saracens.

Duhan van der Merwe and Kyle Rowe have now joined up with the squad.

[come on shire]

27 minutes ago, Shipa said:

Squad update:

Jamie Bhatti has withdrawn due to injury and been replaced by Allan Dell.

Josh Bayliss will continue his recovery from concussion at Bath and Sean Maitland has returned to Saracens.

Duhan van der Merwe and Kyle Rowe have now joined up with the squad.

It's a shame for Bhatti who's been solid but I wouldn't call it a blow for Scotland as Dell is a like for like replacement and we have Kebble as an option too.

Great to see Duhan joining up with the squad.  My 2 starting wingers for Saturday would be Duhan and Steyn.  

Maitland is 33 and is past his best imho.

[Detournement]

Maitland is past his best but him Hoggy and Duhan has a nice balance to it and you always feel confident with him under a high ball. 

Dell is a classic Toony call up. Kebble is no doubt still his 4th choice LH but he clearly doesn't like having guys who might disrupt his plans competing for shirts in training. 

Hopefully we stay relatively injury free for the duration.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

@Mark Connolly 

The Worst Scotland Side of the Past 20-ish Years

With this one, I have tried to exclude players with less than 5 caps where I can, unless they were particularly egregious. That actually narrows it down quite a lot, and maybe I'm just over affectionate for some of the players through the years but there were some positions where it was genuinely quite hard to find someone worthy of a spot in the team, despite how rotten we were for a lot of the period covered. Where possible I've gone for guys who were mainly a disappointment, or just stunk out the place for years, with a few of the genuinely woeful thrown in. As always there will likely be some I have missed through not really seeing them/insufficient diligence.

Props - Despite being a position which has regularly a problem area for Scotland since the millennium, with often only one or two genuine options on each side, this was immediately a hard one. Once you discount the guys who would probably admit they weren't up to it and got just a few games (Cusack, Traynor, etc), guys who were actually quite impressive then were never seen again (Marfo) and guys who probably didn't have the technical side but always played above themselves (Gordy Reid) for Scotland you're not really left with much. On the loosehead I've gone for Alex Allan, mainly because I remember a fair bit of excitement about him, and I don't imagine anyone remembers a moment of his 7 caps. He is now at London-Hong Kong at age 29. 

On the tighthead it was fairly easy. Geoff Cross gave himself a serious brain injury in almost his first involvement as a Scotland player, and was sin binned in the process. You simply do not recover from that.

Hooker - Again a lot of decent players here once you remove those with the fewest caps. Even the likes of Dave Cherry have been surprisingly good, or at least better than expected. I am going for my first controversial one in Ross Ford - stunk the place out, massively overrated by those outside Scotland, and his main attribute was width making him I guess better in the scrum? Throwing was never particularly great, never used his size particularly well in the loose, lack of facial injuries for a hooker is a massive red flag.

Lock - First up here is Jim Hamilton - a not very good player who was unmovable from the 23 for what seemed like forever. While Nathan Hines, in the best team a few pages back, was exactly the type of b*****d you want in one of your locks, Hamilton was just a b*****d. Liable to be off the park for at least 10 minutes every other game, not much of a hard man with it. Become an obnoxious podcast guy. Piss off.

Second selection was again a bit more difficult but I've gone for Scott McLeod. A very pale and perpetually scared looking man, he was very bad!

Back Row- Again, this was quite a tricky area as while we've rarely had the right blend, a lot of guys have been out with injuries, and for a long time we've struggled for one of the positions (i.e. Ally Hogg playing 7, the lack of a STRONG BALL-CARRYING 8^tm), most of the guys who have been more than bit parts are pretty solid. At 6, it can only be Ally Strokosh, a man most famous for being good at martial arts, and a supposed "hard man" who again never really seemed to do much for Scotland. Most memorable moment in what seemed like 5 years of selections was a head clash while celebrating the first win in Australia. 

Breaking the rules slightly for 7 by going for a very low number of caps, but it's Hugh Blake. There was a lot of excitement about his signing up to Scotland, with a lack of options for a specialised modern 7 other than the perma-injured Ross Rennie and at that time frozen-out/playing 8 for Scarlets JB. Tbf he seems to have been a good addition to the 7 team over the years, but in 15s he was a massive flop, and the need for a good specialist openside was immediately filled by a string of quality players Hardie, Barclay and Cowan.

Number 8 has long been a problem position for Scotland and I was tempted to go for a lot of the great hopes like Adam Ashe, Gary Graham, Blade Thomson, but in the end went for a guy who at least a 12-year old Rugby World-reading  Genuine Hibs Fan was excited about, Dave Callam. A time when the need for an 8 of good stature was less, but still a big disappointment. 

 

Half Backs - 9 was another tough one, we have played some shite but it has largely been for 10 minutes once or twice. After the one I've selected you're probably looking at Pyrgos, Hidalgo-Clyne or Horne, which would be very harsh as they have all had excellent games for Scotland. On MC's recommendation picking the one player I don't think I ever saw, Graeme Beveridge. Please tell me how bad he was. 

Fly Half was more difficult for opposite reasons. Some will try to tell you Dan Parks, but they are wrong and bad people. Chris Paterson as a 10, just as a sort of national rugby obsession, maybe deserves a mention, as do Pete Horne who struggled there despite a lot of assured performances at 12. Ruairidh Jackson and Duncan Weir probably look a bit rubbish in retrospect, but were a bit of a step up and at least it was exciting to have a couple of young Scottish-developed players instead of constant fill-ins. For me, THAT Italy game alone makes it Phil Godman, if the rest of his body of work wasn't enough. Brought in when for some reason there was a demand for a team with a decent pack and shite backs to play more expansively, and regularly shat the bed trying to do it. Reading that back he was probably given a poisoned chalice, but tough, he was shit. 

Centres - So 12, the great battle between Andy Henderson and Graeme Morrison, two crash ball centres who struggled to break the gameline and were hardly defensively amazing either. I am picking neither, and going for my most controversial choice in Duncan Taylor! I am mainly including him because it was infuriating to be told for several years what a key player he was for the all-conquering Saracens team, how he was a true lynchpin in the midfield. And for Scotland he just never really was? He had a few good games, including playing at full back against Australia in a win if I remember right, but overall I'd have him down as a big disappointment, injuries or no injuries. Until the brief period before Johnson/Jones/Harris became the top 3 to pick from I don't think he could ever really be said to be a must pick for us. 

13 I'm going for Nick de Luca. Similar to Godman I feel a little bad because he seemed to know he wasn't up to it, and he was the best of a very bad lot in terms of 13s up until Scott and Dunbar then Bennett came into the setup. But like Godman he was meant to be a creative player and was woefully short of ability to do the job. Shoutout to Marcus Di Rollo.

Back Three - here again we have a lot of excellent choices. I've previously expressed my disdain for big huddy Nikki Walker, and fast huddy Simon Danielli. Also broke-his-neck non-huddy Thom Evans makes me angry for getting injured by Lee Byrne. I should perhaps redirect this energy. Thom's brother Max Evans gets in on one wing for me, with Simon Webster on the other. Maybe again harsh as they are definitely not the worst players for their positions, but maybe more for the experiments to try and turn them (or De Luca, or good god please anyone) into an effective attacking 13. As it was both were counted amongst the most gifted attacking players in woeful attacking teams, and just did not do their jobs well, as well as fitting into the "stinking out the team for years" criteria above. 

15 can only be Hugo Southwell. He had a big boot, was very well regarded in the looks department by teenage girls at my school, and offered almost nothing else in close to 60 caps. Not sure if Rory Lamont was ever really much better but his injury worries and Paterson being chucked on the wing consigned us to him as a regular starting full back for close on 7 years. Greig Tonks nearly gets the nod simply for that mismatch against Folau in the air alone.

Southwell, Webster, de Luca, Taylor, M. Evans, Godman, Beveridge; Allan, Ford, Cross, Hamilton, McLeod, Strokosh, Blake, Callam. Subs: F. Thomson, Grant, Welsh, Harley, Du-Preez, Hart, Heathcote, Danielli

Subs some more controversial ones. Ryan Grant just for the massive fall from grace of being probably deserving of being in the initial Lions squad and being called in as a replacement; to never really being good enough again. Du-Preez was a massive disappointment for Scotland for me,  Harley is very harsh, Hart was the only real option and Heathcote was like if bringing Adam Hastings up had been a massive failure. 

     

 

[Snobot]

@Genuine Hibs Fan This Duncan Taylor? He was brilliant for a short period so absolutely disagree. He should be nowhere near this team. Henderson, Morrison, McLaren (who?) Erickson far more deserving 

I remember Hadden going full Gordon Strachan and picking Webster at 13 when the Evans brothers were destroying Toulouse away from home in Europe around the mid 2000s. At least the Evans brought a glimmer of hope when Scotland’s backs were absolutely turgid so disagree on Max Evans. Walker had all the tools but was generally anonymous. 

Southwell did some decent things and scored some good tries but fair enough, who else? R Lamont would injure himself getting out of bed.

Ford was rank rotten for the majority of his 100 odd caps. A hooker who didn’t hook and couldn’t throw straight, but he was good at weights apparently. Great.
 

“Stroker” (as former Edin private schoolboys loved to call him) -  all mouth and no trousers, but I obviously wouldn’t say that to his face. Did f all for most of his caps. Good at martial arts, had a Mohican, that was about it. Meh.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

5 minutes ago, Snobot said:

@Genuine Hibs Fan This Duncan Taylor? He was brilliant for a short period so absolutely disagree. He should be nowhere near this team. Henderson, Morrison, McLaren (who?) Erickson far more deserving 

I remember Hadden going full Gordon Strachan and picking Webster at 13 when the Evans brothers were destroying Toulouse away from home in Europe around the mid 2000s. At least the Evans brought a glimmer of hope when Scotland’s backs were absolutely turgid so disagree on Max Evans. Walker had all the tools but was generally anonymous. 

Southwell did some decent things and scored some good tries but fair enough, who else? R Lamont would injure himself getting out of bed.

Ford was rank rotten for the majority of his 100 odd caps. A hooker who didn’t hook and couldn’t throw straight, but he was good at weights apparently. Great.
 

“Stroker” (as former Edin private schoolboys loved to call him) -  all mouth and no trousers, but I obviously wouldn’t say that to his face. Did f all for most of his caps. Good at martial arts, had a Mohican, that was about it. Meh.

Aye, I mean that clip shows him beating one man and getting a run in against largely forwards while well covered by blocking supporting runners. With the benefit of time while he would still have scored it probably shouldn't have stood as Hogg plants a massive shove on the closest defender's back. I said it was a controversial one, but maintain he was hugely disappointing for Scotland. Lot of disruption due to injuries tbf. Likewise Evans, he wasn't as bad as some in terms of actual ability but I have too many memories of getting excited to see the ball in his hands and just nothing happening at all. Tbf same could probably apply to Walker when he was doing well at Ospreys so maybe fair enough. Just thought there were parallels with Webster in the "he's creative!(?)" reaction he often seemed to inspire, at least amongst the admittedly young folk I talked rugby with then. 

I think this is a much more personal team than the best one, largely based on disappointment rather than the quality of the players in a few positions.

[Mark Connolly]

I’ll have a proper read and reconsideration later, but on first glance, your harsh calls are mainly due to the quality of the good guys in those specific positions.

Beveridge would be a prime example, he was just bang average in comparison to everyone else. He had the fortune of being the right age to fall between the Armstrong/Redpath/Nicol and Blair/Cusiter/Lawson eras without having much of a real challenge, certainly in a Glasgow jersey. Decent pro-level player, lucky to get as many caps as he did, if he had been a year or two older or younger, he wouldn’t have been near enough caps to meet your criteria.

Delighted with your selection of Fucksake Phil at 10. Slightly better distribution than Parks, but a far worse kicker, and an even worse defender. How people (mainly Embra fans) spent years convincing themselves he was a better option than Parks, I will never know.

At some point I’m also going to do a pre-2005 best team of guys I’ve seen, so from around 87/88 onwards. Will be an interesting comparison.

[honestly united]

Some interesting calls, Taylor and Southwell both seemed to tear it up in the English premership, yet Taylor only had the odd great game for Scotland and Southwell seemed pretty horrendous everytime I've seen him (although not picking Kinghorn at 15 seems an oversight)

The one pick I have issue is is Evans, he was a fantastic player, but like anyone else they stuck on the wing at that time, if you dont get any ball, or when you do its hospital passes there isn't much you can do. If you swapped Darcy Graham or big Duhan into the Scotland team of that era instead of Evans and they would be equally disappointing. With the likes of Henderson and Morrison at Centre no one is going to look good on the wing

[Detournement]

Taylor was class. Where is Marcus Di Rollo?

Anyway I'm expecting a fairly settled team for the CC. It will largely be the same team from last year with Sutherland Vs Schoeman and Fagerson Vs Bradbury the only changes I can see GT making. Schoeman was very involved in the attack in the AIs being used as an option to truck it up if Finn wanted an easy pass so I've got a feeling he will start. I think Matt Fagerson will hold onto his place for workrate and Bradbury will get a chance off the bench. 

Schoeman Turner Fagerson Cummings Gray Ritchie Watson Fagerson Price Russell Duhan Redpath Harris Graham Hogg 

 

 

[Mark Connolly]

On further reflection @Genuine Hibs Fan, there are quite a few positions in the forwards where "the worst" happens to just be slightly shitter than the rest of a fairly average selection.

Ross Ford, for example, at his best was very decent, and was a Lion when it was really tough for Scots to make it on tour. He was hurt by having no real competition for the spot, so was essentially undroppable, and never reached his real potential. His average performance level would be way below a McInally/Brown average performance, for Scotland anyway. Was he any worse than Pat McArthur, Scott Lawson or Dougie Hall, who were all solid enough without ever setting the heather on fire?

I know you've tried to stick to positional selections, ie an inside centre at inside centre, but no shit Scotland team can ignore the chance to have a Godman-De Luca-Di Rollo midfield.

Nikki Walker was horseshit, he should be in the team somewhere. And if you are bending the eligibility rule to get Grayson Hart on the bench, he's fit to start ahead of Beveridge, just don't tell his mum it's the shit XV.

[John Lambies Doos]

Hill and Lawes out of calcuta match

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

18 hours ago, Detournement said:

Taylor was class. Where is Marcus Di Rollo?

Anyway I'm expecting a fairly settled team for the CC. It will largely be the same team from last year with Sutherland Vs Schoeman and Fagerson Vs Bradbury the only changes I can see GT making. Schoeman was very involved in the attack in the AIs being used as an option to truck it up if Finn wanted an easy pass so I've got a feeling he will start. I think Matt Fagerson will hold onto his place for workrate and Bradbury will get a chance off the bench. 

Schoeman Turner Fagerson Cummings Gray Ritchie Watson Fagerson Price Russell Duhan Redpath Harris Graham Hogg 

 

 

That'd be my team as well. Only issue is Redpath coming back from injury. I know he's been playing for Bath but unless it's a key player Toony generally seems to be quite cautious with bringing players in. Kinghorn being the only replacement 10 and also covering back three suggests they might go for a 6/2 split which with England's injury issues in the pack could be a good idea. Then again, don't necessarily need a specialist 7 on the bench if we have both Ritchie and Watson starting. 

[Detournement]

26 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

Only issue is Redpath coming back from injury. I know he's been playing for Bath but unless it's a key player Toony generally seems to be quite cautious with bringing players in.

Sam Johnson played really well against France and Australia but him and Harris as a pair seem to lack something. 

Redpath in the little I have seen of reminds me of (a much better) Peter Horne.