lzreid Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 How about some sort of democratic elections in Palestine, where we encourage all parties to ease off on the military action and join in the political process, a bit like Sinn Fein (I know, bringing up NI again, sorry). That way the likes of Hamas, if elected, will see that they don't need violence to achieve their aims, and that if they participate fully in the political process, then they will be encouraged, and not simply condemmed, ignored, and then starved in order to stop them participating in the political process and drive them back to violence.How does that sound? Pretty good. I'm certainly not trying to bar Hamas members from the political process. The problem is that neither their leadership nor the Israeli Leadership have any real interest in peace. My immediate sympathies lie with the Palestinians, however, that doesn't change the fact that the Palestinian leadership are partly to blame for the current crisis. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 (edited) How about some sort of democratic elections in Palestine, where we encourage all parties to ease off on the military action and join in the political process, a bit like Sinn Fein (I know, bringing up NI again, sorry). That way the likes of Hamas, if elected, will see that they don't need violence to achieve their aims, and that if they participate fully in the political process, then they will be encouraged, and not simply condemmed, ignored, and then starved in order to stop them participating in the political process and drive them back to violence.How does that sound? Good on paper. The British attempted to bring the more radical militias into the political process in southern Iraq, the success of which was dubious. Some simply attempted to go too far in imposing their own will without paying heed to the democratic process and were subsequently squashed by the resurgent Iraqi army. In fact it pissed of the US who seemed to think that there were 'good' guys and 'bad' guys in iraq rather than simply iraqis..... they accused us of all kinds of woolly liberal thinking but there is no doubt that political re engagement of these groups is the only way to get a long term decrease in violence. Edited January 13, 2009 by renton 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
centralparker Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 The quickest way to 'solve' this is for Palestinians to be moved to the West Bank and Gaza City razed to the ground. A fully functioning Palestine as a singular entity can't really have an enclave being held to ransom if and when Israel sees fit. I think that's a good idea. Two geographically distinct states running there own affairs. All Arabs to the left, Jews to the right. Gaza could then be safely wiped off the map (and few would rue its passing). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I think that's a good idea. Two geographically distinct states running there own affairs. All Arabs to the left, Jews to the right. Gaza could then be safely wiped off the map (and few would rue its passing). i think that most arabic states in the area would wish privately for that option 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 So nearly a thousand Palestinians dead, thousands more injured, all to stop the rocket attacks on Israel from Gaza. Its going well. Rocket attacks still going. And militants have kept up rocket attacks, firing 25 mortars and rockets into southern Israel on Tuesday, Israel's army said. So, basically, a thousand people dead, and hee-haw achieved. Go Israel, nearly as effective as their war with Lebanon was. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAFC Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Israel have achieved something. Recruiting 1000's of terrorists. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted January 14, 2009 Author Share Posted January 14, 2009 Israel have achieved something.Recruiting 1000's of terrorists. No no, violent reprisals only stop terrorism! They don't encourage more people to become freedom fighters at all. Honestly, its a fact that bombing someones home and killing their family is a sure fire way to stop them from resorting to violent action. Israel is totally taking the right approach to help with middle eastern peace and stability. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) No no, violent reprisals only stop terrorism! They don't encourage more people to become freedom fighters at all. Honestly, its a fact that bombing someones home and killing their family is a sure fire way to stop them from resorting to violent action. Israel is totally taking the right approach to help with middle eastern peace and stability. Depends, Israel may continue until the will of the palestinian people eventually just breaks. In my opinion Israel does not see this as a counter insurgency campaign, but rather a national war to finally put an end to palestinian resistance. In COIN ops it's about hearts and minds, seperating the goats form the sheep and keeping the populace on side, the israelis are treating this almost like a total war, trying to demolish the palestinian state organs and wiping out their physical and moral means of resisting.... Edited January 14, 2009 by renton 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) Slithering your way meekly to the table after your opponents wobbled your paymasters' economy is hardly success. Open suggestion to any dissident groups out there. Instead of using explosives, target securitised mortgage packages at your enemies instead. A much, much more effective weapon Edited January 14, 2009 by Millfield Marksman 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 and last time i checked theres no united ireland so who won??? I think Beyemistic would have us believe that things are still up in the eire on that one possibly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ron Burgundy Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 (edited) Canot verify it's authenticity.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=560_1231793744" target="_blank">http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=560_1231793744</a> or spell. Edited January 14, 2009 by Ron Burgundy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lzreid Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Canot verify it's authenticity.http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=560_1231793744 Banned at my work . Details? Welcome back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Depends, Israel may continue until the will of the palestinian people eventually just breaks. To be honest, they had to make hay whilst the last days of the Bush regime fizzle out. It is obvious why this surge has taken place before Obama takes control. I saw an excellent "Hearts and Minds" programme on Press TV this morning. They were discussing the nightmare scenario of a Netanyahu Israeli election win. Apparently in Obama's pre election tour the only meeting that went disasterously was with Netanyahu. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 hamas dont want a ceasefire how stupid are they?? you can picture the conversation "hey the israelies have called a ceasefire,we need medical supplies and food" "lets chuck a few rockets first" "great idea" hamas are killing there own people 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 hamas dont want a ceasefirehow stupid are they?? you can picture the conversation "hey the israelies have called a ceasefire,we need medical supplies and food" "lets chuck a few rockets first" "great idea" hamas are killing there own people Are Hamas in any position to stop these rocket launches? If they were complicit in launching these ones then obviously that's another matter - but were they? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Are Hamas in any position to stop these rocket launches?If they were complicit in launching these ones then obviously that's another matter - but were they? hamas themselves have said that they will fight on,but i know what you mean 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 hamas themselves have said that they will fight on,but i know what you mean I'm not naive enough to think that a Hamas bobby would be over at any rocket sites with a whistle and a notebook to stop them, but it seems to me that, this offensive having harmed Hamas (as well as all other groups - and civilians - in the territory) means that even if they did want to halt the rockets they wouldn't be able to. As I said earlier in the thread the whole thing smacks of collective punishment... but in a pressure-cooker, ultra-crowded atmosphere the alternative would be very difficult. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centre Stand Hero Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 Hamas have just announced a one week cease fire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted January 18, 2009 Share Posted January 18, 2009 I read a report last week which said that Hamas are divided between the leadership in Damascus, who want to continue fighting, and the leadership in Gaza, who want a ceasefire. I suppose it is easier to say 'continue fighting' if you aren't actually in real danger of being killed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted January 19, 2009 Author Share Posted January 19, 2009 It'll give the Israelis time to target some more hospitals, schools, and aid relief centres in preparation for the next wave of bombings. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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