Israel And The Palestinians (now with added Iran/Lebanon)

[Donathan]

4 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

Ok, so your position is the same as the other thread that Israel killing civilians is just one of those things, but Hamas doing it is an unacceptable evil? 

I would prefer to see a peaceful 2-state solution 

[oneteaminglasgow]

7 minutes ago, Donathan said:

I would prefer to see a peaceful 2-state solution 

So you keep saying.

You also branded every Palestinian as antisemitic and claimed that’s the only reason for them opposing Israel, while Israel’s hand has been forced by the Palestinians not wanting to be forced to live in a prison and be ethnically cleansed, so forgive me for not believing you. 

[MazzyStar]

3 hours ago, Donathan said:

No. I would of course prefer a peaceful two state solution. 

You’re a fucking cretin. 

[MazzyStar]

1 hour ago, Moomintroll said:

Hamas are scum, the current Israeli Government ( & many before and probably after them) are scum, the innocent majority Muslim Palestinians & Israeli majority Jews caught up in this shitshow are victims of both a Terrorist Organisation & a Fascist Goverment that acts like a Terrorist Organisation. Nevertheless the same few posters on here will blame it on the hook nosed jews because Media, Murica & Mbritain, those posters are also scum.

Stick to your unhinged rants about “Corbyn loving scum infesting the NHS”. 

[Donathan]

33 minutes ago, MazzyStar said:

You’re a fucking cretin. 

For wanting a peaceful 2 state solution? Isn’t that what most people want. 

[MazzyStar]

Just now, Donathan said:

For wanting a peaceful 2 state solution? Isn’t that what most people want. 

Your other posts make it clear that isn’t what you want. 

[Wee-Bey]

[TxRover]

8 hours ago, 101 said:

At the same time there was a woman (20ish) who survived the music festival attack and was calling for restraint.

 

The Americans rocking up with 2 aircraft carriers seems a little overkill considering they have usable US air force locations in many of the gulf countries but also in Germany, Italy and Spain. I guess they are worried terrorists from Lebanon attack and we end up with some kind of middle Eastern war, that said I'm not sure how much the US or UK can get involved. If we are to be involved it would be far better to keep the peace and allow peace time for Israel to identify those terrorists living in Gaza. This obviously now won't happen.

The entire point of this is probably 1) “encourage” other parties to stay the f**k out, 2) provide a close in staging point for a special forces insertion for hostage rescue and 3) provide a close in transit point for evacuation of U.S. citizens from Israel.

That being said, a SEAL or Delta Force attempt to rescue hostages would likely go badly, too many interested parties with destructive devices, unless they are beachside. Supporting an evacuation seems a more likely primary role, with the keeping others away a bonus value.

[TxRover]

The biggest “problem” we all have in understanding is literally none of us have any viable comparison points. The numbers of deaths don’t relate to any comparison point we have had in our lifetimes, even events like 9/11 are small in number of deaths versus this relative to population (about 10%), while things like the Iraq war dwarf the numbers.

We can talk about squeezing Scotland’s population into some small area, fencing them off, etc, but even then it’s not something we can actually get our heads around, The Irish problems were terrible enough, but make this look like a spat at a nursery school. There is so much to be balanced and argued on both sides, and neither is in any real manner innocent at the leadership levels…but it’s the little guy that suffers, always.

Anyone who can look at the Israeli and Palestinian issues and make any kind of pronouncement about one side or the other being less or more guilty is deluding themselves. There is blame all over, but it doesn’t justify the Hamas actions of the recent incursion or the over-the-top Israeli responses from leadership about destroying and holding a whole population liable.

[MazzyStar]

The amount of attempted bothsideism about this issue is awful. There is a total refusal by many to accept that the conditions forced upon Palestinians is a major factor in the continued support for Hamas. 

The simple fact is, Israel is a country literally built on top of Palestine and the people already living there. From the very beginning with the Nakba, right through to todays occupation, Israeli oppression is constant in the lives of Palestinians. The notion that Israelis are also somehow the victims of this oppression is also laughable. This is supported by the majority of Israelis. It seems to have been forgotten that it was the majority of Israelis who voted for the current far right government in the first place. 

[Moomintroll]

1 hour ago, MazzyStar said:

Stick to your unhinged rants about “Corbyn loving scum infesting the NHS”. 

Stick to sucking Putins dick.

[Stephen Malkmus]

Have to say I'm very impressed with the New York Times' coverage of this. Shits on any of our print media and well worth a subscription

[TxRover]

24 minutes ago, MazzyStar said:

The amount of attempted bothsideism about this issue is awful. There is a total refusal by many to accept that the conditions forced upon Palestinians is a major factor in the continued support for Hamas. 

The simple fact is, Israel is a country literally built on top of Palestine and the people already living there. From the very beginning with the Nakba, right through to todays occupation, Israeli oppression is constant in the lives of Palestinians. The notion that Israelis are also somehow the victims of this oppression is also laughable. This is supported by the majority of Israelis. It seems to have been forgotten that it was the majority of Israelis who voted for the current far right government in the first place. 

The problems go back much further than 1945+, so there are certainly multiple sides here. However, when all your neighbouring States attempt to wipe you off the map, you tend to get a wee bit insular…not that that justifies the ongoing issues.

As for a “majority” voting for the current far right government, that’s an over simplification. It took a massive coalition of 7 of the 13 parties holding seats in the Knesset to (barely) form a government. The key part of the coalition are the religious parties, who cannot properly be considered anything but Israeli Orthodox Jews first rather than right wing. By the same token, you could easily suggest a majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas in 2006, making Palestinian violence and threat a constant in the lives of Israelis…just saying.

Neither side here is in the clear, and the international community has it all to answer for because of how they have effectively ignored this or that as it benefited them. If you want to call that bothsiderism, so be it…but neither side is on the side of the angels, despite what their texts say.

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

So you keep saying.

You also branded every Palestinian as antisemitic and claimed that’s the only reason for them opposing Israel, while Israel’s hand has been forced by the Palestinians not wanting to be forced to live in a prison and be ethnically cleansed, so forgive me for not believing you. 

It’s a very complex situation however one aspect is simple.  Always support the oppressed rather than the oppressor.

2 minutes ago, Stephen Malkmus said:

Have to say I'm very impressed with the New York Times' coverage of this. Shits on any of our print media and well worth a subscription

CNN coverage also very good.

[Silvio Tattiescone]

MP Gerald Kaufman, 2009: "However many Palestinians the Israelis murder, they cannot solve this existential problem by military means. Whenever the fighting ends, there will still be 1.5m Palestinians in Gaza, 2.5m more on the West Bank. The Israelis are not simply war criminals, they are fools."

[MazzyStar]

25 minutes ago, Moomintroll said:

Stick to sucking Putins dick.

Homophobia now too? 

[Trogdor]

This is nauseating.

[MazzyStar]

32 minutes ago, TxRover said:

. By the same token, you could easily suggest a majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas in 2006, making Palestinian violence and threat a constant in the lives of Israelis…just saying.

 

You could say that, if you also wanted to ignore the massive disparity in number of casualties between the two sides. 

[GHF-23]

Simon Sebag Christopher Rufo

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

7 hours ago, Donathan said:

Yes, Palestine and Israel are enemies of one another.

Your post made me sick in my mouth. 
 

I saw a video with an orthodox jewish guy, talking about how they all used to live in peace before Israel, arab and jew, how it was against their religion to do what Israel is doing now. That said a lot to me about the difference between being anti-semitic and critical of israel. What is being done now in Gaza is fucking despicable, what was done by Hamas in Israel is despicable, but the Israelis are trying to punish every single person in that state for having the audacity to be palestinian. Its fucking sickening seeing Adam Richman (someone i previously liked) and Riley/Baddiel posting the utter shite they are posting now. There is a special place in hell for people who can be so blase about the genocide of a people that they deem it to be a noble cause. Our service personnel being sent to assist Israel is despicable. War crimes, genocide and other unspeakable acts are being committed right now, Hamas also has done this. Its not a partisan matter for me, both need stopped. The international community needs to work together and resolve a peaceful solution to this matter, we need the UN to put neutral peacekeeper troops into Gaza now, need blue helmets on the ground, need humanitarian efforts, need to stop the movement of Israeli troops into Gaza and the movement of Hamas fighters into Israel, from there we need to use the UN for the purpose it was created.