GHF-23 Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 5 hours ago, Captain_Sensible said: “far right” and “gammon” appear to be interchangeable euphemisms used by the well off white middle class left to describe anyone in the working class who disagrees with them You've said almost the exact same thing verbatim on this site before. It was boring fact free shite then and it's boring fact free shite now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 12 hours ago, Captain_Sensible said: “far right” and “gammon” appear to be interchangeable euphemisms used by the well off white middle class left to describe anyone in the working class who disagrees with them It's used to describe racist bigots who use any excuse to inact violence on anyone different from them for having the audacity to breathe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, Captain_Sensible said: “far right” and “gammon” appear to be interchangeable euphemisms used by the well off white middle class left to describe anyone in the working class who disagrees with them Only a middle class twat would assume that violent racists must be working class. Edited November 12, 2023 by welshbairn 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 IDF is just a parody account now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 Children now dying in hospitals because of lack of supplies/electricity. F*ck Israel and the western politicians supporting what is happening. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 Disgusting take from the Telegraph. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-extreme-ambitions-of-west-bank-settlers Quote So rights are not some sort of universal thing that every person has. They’re something that you can win or lose. That’s right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 1 hour ago, oneteaminglasgow said: So rights are not some sort of universal thing that every person has. They’re something that you can win or lose. That’s right. True. Rights are only real if they are enforced, otherwise they're just wishful thinking. It doesn't help that the post WW2 institutions supposed to guarantee the bare minimum are having their validity dissipated by left and right, sometimes because of a confusion of neoliberal economics with liberal and humanitarian values, along with the UN Security Council stalemate that isn't new. Liking the frankness here though, something Israel has been putting into practice for 50 years while pretending to support "the 2 state solution". Quote In Israel, there’s a lot of support for settlements, and this is why there have been right-wing governments for so many years. The world, especially the United States, thinks there is an option for a Palestinian state, and, if we continue to build communities, then we block the option for a Palestinian state. We want to close the option for a Palestinian state, and the world wants to leave the option open. It’s a very simple thing to understand. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH33 Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 The reports of the neo-nates dying shows the futility of war. Israel are so out of order it's disgusting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClydeTon Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 (edited) An Israeli newspaper reporting that Israel are bringing in a new face as "coordinator" in Gaza. You'll never guess who it is... Hint: The Middle East has good reason to hate him. They're bringing in Tony Blair!.. Allegedly. War Criminals attract a War Criminal? Edited November 12, 2023 by ClydeTon 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 (edited) Quote We should there form a portion of a rampart of Europe against Asia, an outpost of civilisation as opposed to barbarism. We should as a neutral State remain in contact with all Europe, which would have to guarantee our existence. Theodore Herzl wrote that in his book The Jewish State in 1896. Herzl coined the term zionism and was the founding father of political zionism. You can see in the quote there how he envisaged the zionist state being propped up by Europe and existing as an important nexus point within the (western) European imperialist world order. That was the original zionism but an alternative soon after arose, labour zionism. Most of the Jews who first settled Palestine were from eastern and central Europe (including Russia). They were heavily oriented in the politics of that area of Europe at the time, which was worker-led rather than capitalist. These labour zionists didn't want their Jewish state to be just a tool of western, capitalist imperialism. They wanted independence from that and true sovereignty. The Haganah, the Jewish paramilitary which played the largest role in overthrowing the British to create Israel in 1948, they were labour zionists. We often hear nowadays "but the (European) left used to support Israel!", well that's why. Herzl's political zionists were capitalists who were happy to employ the indigenous Palestinians as cheap labour. Labour zionists wanted a fully Jewish workforce so their state didn't need to be incorporated into global capitalism, so they were actually even more keen to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians than the political zionists were. Israel then annexed territory in the 1967 war beyond the Green Line (its internationally recognised borders). In the 1973 war it consolidated that annexation. By then, USA had replaced the west Europeans as the dominant world power. A choice was made by Israel (under a Labour government) to hold onto the annexed territories and to aim for a Greater Israel. This killed labour zionism and the idea of an independent Israel. Herzl's political zionism was now the only choice as that amount of expansion and occupation was too expensive for what was at the time a nation of just a few million people. USA was needed as a sponsor and so that began. Incidentally, Kibbutzim near Gaza were attacked last month. Kibbutzim were a series of cooperative settlements first established by the early labour zionists last century. They're now all privatised, a process which began from that mid-1970s era when Israel subordinated itself to USA. When labour zionism died in the 1970s, some of its disaffected former adherents instead began the two state movement. I think this is the best option to support. The other two options are both one state, the anti-zionist option and Greater Israel option. Anti-zionist Israelis include pretty much all Palestinian-Israelis as well as some Jewish-Israelis. Morally, this is the best option - a democratic, secular, multiethnic nation state with equal rights for all - but practically, it's a non-starter. While a significant minority of Israelis support it, that is still a minority and therefore not going to make much headway in Israeli politics. Maybe even more importantly than that, though, is that USA is dead against it as it'd remove Israeli dependence on USA. Greater Israel is what been happening since the mid-1970s. There's a strong chance Gaza will be the latest land to be incorporated by the end of the current offensive. The strategy in West Bank is to take all the lesser populated land first as that's easiest to ethnically cleanse. Given the economic development of Palestinian society has been deliberately curtailed by Israel, subsistence agriculture is still common in West Bank. Therefore, stealing that land impoverishes the Palestinians who relied on it and they have to retreat as refugees to the urbanised centres - Nablus, Ramallah, Hebron, etc. Once all this rural land has been grabbed, a process well on its way, only then will Israel turn to the main Palestinian population centres. The strategy then will probably be to empty them in a similar fashion to what we've been witnessing with Gaza. You immiserate them as much as you can, squeeze them more and more, until you provoke a violent response, at which point you retaliate and smash them to bits, causing the people to flee (that'll be into Jordan). The "good" news is that point is likely still decades away. Giving the Palestinians the protection of their own nation state is the only way to stop that eventuality, as I see it. Even if its completely shit with an utterly rotten land deal. Something is better than nothing and it gives them a foothold. Having your own state changes everything. For example, you can attract foreign investment and that means foreign capital has a stake in your territory. Israel could not be bombing the shit out of Gaza right now if investors from either USA or its allies like Saudi had capital tied up there. Edited November 13, 2023 by Freedom Farter 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Gaza hospital can no longer carry out surgery. Anyone needing surgery will die. https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-11-13-23/index.html Every U.K. news website appears to be carrying stories about Israeli hostages along side the stories about what is happening in Gaza as if the stories are of equal significance. It’s as if they are trying to justify Israel’s ongoing actions in Gaza (and the West Bank). The legacy of the Hamas attack and the holding of hostages is not equivalent to the atrocities being carried out with the full support of the U.S.A, the U.K. and others. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 On 11/11/2023 at 18:53, Captain_Sensible said: “far right” and “gammon” appear to be interchangeable euphemisms used by the well off white middle class left to describe anyone in the working class who disagrees with them Not all far right people are gammons but all gammons are far right. Seems fair enough to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottsdad Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Two thirds of the 11,000 plus killed in Gaza are women and children. I cannot wait to hear the new Foreign Secretary condemning this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 10 hours ago, Granny Danger said: Gaza hospital can no longer carry out surgery. Anyone needing surgery will die. https://edition.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-11-13-23/index.html Every U.K. news website appears to be carrying stories about Israeli hostages along side the stories about what is happening in Gaza as if the stories are of equal significance. It’s as if they are trying to justify Israel’s ongoing actions in Gaza (and the West Bank). The legacy of the Hamas attack and the holding of hostages is not equivalent to the atrocities being carried out with the full support of the U.S.A, the U.K. and others. Starting to cringe at the stories about Israeli hostages now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH33 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 I'm not sure a Jew in Glasgow is anywhere close to this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, RH33 said: I'm not sure a Jew in Glasgow is anywhere close to this. If they’re worried just imagine how people in Gaza feel. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venti Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, scottsdad said: Odo has entered the chat Edited November 13, 2023 by Venti 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RH33 Posted November 13, 2023 Share Posted November 13, 2023 Just now, MazzyStar said: If they’re worried just imagine how people in Gaza feel. I'd suggest having themselves plastered on BBC website making them more recognisable wasn't wise move either if they're so concerned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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