The Golden God Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 It’ll be an excellent day when that c**t Netanyahu dies. River to the sea is anti semitic when anyone else says it but completely fine for Zionist’s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Macroeconomic arrangements lock all this in place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefybake Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 19 hours ago, MazzyStar said: I assume that’s Rabin you’re talking about. That would be the same Rabin who ordered IDF troops to break the bones of unarmed Palestinian protesters when he was defence minister. Not such a pacifist after all. That’s not to mention that the Oslo accords were completely in Israel’s favour. At the root of all this is whether the majority of Israeli citizens accept the prospect of a 2 state solution. If they don't , then the 'Palestinian problem' does not exist. The various Western powers then have to publically acknowledge that what this is is the 'Israel problem'. At least some of the hypocrisy currently on display will dissipate. Edited January 19 by beefybake 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Waldo Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 The first step is for Israel to define where its border are, or more accurately, where is believes its border are. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted January 20 Share Posted January 20 South Africa was the last major Global South nation to decolonise, only doing so in 1994 and with Mandela remaining on the US terrorism list until 2008. So it makes sense they're who has taken Israel to the ICJ. South Africa's own experience of colonial brutality was recent enough that the strength of feeling needed to act is still there. India were once strong supporters of the Palestinians but that time has passed as it's now three quarters of a century since India decolonised. There's no longer a shared struggle there. Today, the Palestinian cause runs counter to the interests of the now well-entrenched Indian elite. As Arundhati Roy has pointed out, India even colonises itself nowadays. Indigenous people who've been living on land for millennia are violently booted off it to make way for mining companies to plunder it. Then there's China which admirably resists US economic imposition within its own borders yet shows no international solidarity along those lines. The Chinese elite's repression of sections of their own population have actually led them to find a friend in Israel (https://jacobin.com/2023/10/china-israel-repression-military-trade-palestine-technology). South Africa does now have its own elite but each of them were also under the colonial boot until 1994, so even they still have that memory. Which is not the case for the Indian or Chinese elite, or any of the ruling classes in the various Arab monarchies and dictatorships, despite the overwhelming support for the Palestinians among their populations. This means the Palestinians have missed the boat. The global decolonisation wave was last century. Now the formerly colonised nations have all developed their own elites. Those elites are fully in the pockets of global capital and global capital backs Israeli expansion to the hilt. It's not surprising the only militant action in support of the Palestinians is coming from a group in Yemen who're mostly shut out of the global economy. They've no stake in the system so nothing to lose in going against it. Anyway, credit to the South African people. Also to the Bolivians, Colombians, Mexicans and Chileans. They've managed to get enough of a democratic foothold in their societies to force their will on this issue. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClydeTon Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 Whilst I do firmly believe the war should stop ASAP, I do wonder: Does anyone else feel like *these* people in the Western Pro-Palestine camp are just total oddballs? The Palestine thing is obviously utterly awful and absolutely shouldn't be happening, but I don't think my life should be put on pause for it. 15k likes is a lot for such an insane idea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 2 minutes ago, ClydeTon said: Whilst I do firmly believe the war should stop ASAP, I do wonder: Does anyone else feel like *these* people in the Western Pro-Palestine camp are just total oddballs? The Palestine thing is obviously utterly awful and absolutely shouldn't be happening, but I don't think my life should be put on pause for it. 15k likes is a lot for such an insane idea. I'm in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Tattiescone Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 10 minutes ago, ClydeTon said: Whilst I do firmly believe the war should stop ASAP, I do wonder: Does anyone else feel like *these* people in the Western Pro-Palestine camp are just total oddballs? The Palestine thing is obviously utterly awful and absolutely shouldn't be happening, but I don't think my life should be put on pause for it. 15k likes is a lot for such an insane idea. I really think their slogan should be "Do nothing instead of something". Anybody falsely claiming to be sick in protest about Palestine should be fired. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 On 18/01/2024 at 22:02, MazzyStar said: I assume that’s Rabin you’re talking about. That would be the same Rabin who ordered IDF troops to break the bones of unarmed Palestinian protesters when he was defence minister. Not such a pacifist after all. That’s not to mention that the Oslo accords were completely in Israel’s favour. I didn't claim that he was a pacifist - his acts directly contradict your lazy and ahistorical argument though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MazzyStar Posted January 22 Share Posted January 22 2 hours ago, virginton said: I didn't claim that he was a pacifist - his acts directly contradict your lazy and ahistorical argument though. Not really. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 (edited) 20 hours ago, ClydeTon said: Whilst I do firmly believe the war should stop ASAP, I do wonder: Does anyone else feel like *these* people in the Western Pro-Palestine camp are just total oddballs? The Palestine thing is obviously utterly awful and absolutely shouldn't be happening, but I don't think my life should be put on pause for it. 15k likes is a lot for such an insane idea. That account there had tweeted 26 000 times despite having only 250 or so followers, probably mostly bots accrued over time. Their profile picture suggested they're into "Furries", an online scene for LGBT autistic introverts. The 15k likes were from the dogpiling after large US zionist accounts began spreading the tweet amongst themselves. It was being posited as an example of how WEIRD AND PATHETIC ROFL LMAO pro-Palestinian activists are. Except it wasn't representative of widespread ideas. It was the independent creation of a sole autistic individual with zero influence. Who's now been harassed into deleting their account by the sneering zionists. Edited January 23 by Freedom Farter 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClydeTon Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 2 hours ago, Freedom Farter said: That account there had tweeted 26 000 times despite having only 250 or so followers, probably mostly bots accrued over time. Their profile picture suggested they're into "Furries", an online scene for LGBT autistic introverts. The 15k likes were from the dogpiling after large US zionist accounts began spreading the tweet amongst themselves. It was being posited as an example of how WEIRD AND PATHETIC ROFL LMAO pro-Palestinian activists are. Except it wasn't representative of widespread ideas. It was the independent creation of a sole autistic individual with zero influence. Who's now been harassed into deleting their account by the sneering zionists. There's been a relatively Widespread call on the American-Leftist/Communist side of Twitter for a strike, some recieving likes over 100k. The post I linked is the only that showed up on my feed, shared as an example. I wouldn't even say it's Zionists that dogpiled on them. Everyone with a functioning brain and political interest would be over it had they seen it, realistically. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 Watching a murder by the IDF on live TV - if that isn't a war crime then what is? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 On 23/01/2024 at 17:58, ClydeTon said: There's been a relatively Widespread call on the American-Leftist/Communist side of Twitter for a strike, some recieving likes over 100k. The post I linked is the only that showed up on my feed, shared as an example. I wouldn't even say it's Zionists that dogpiled on them. Everyone with a functioning brain and political interest would be over it had they seen it, realistically. As UK citizens our tax contributions have in the last few months funded all the surveillance flights over Gaza from the RAF base in Cyprus. Intelligence gathered from those flights is then passed onto the Israeli military. Export licences have continued to be granted for Martin-Baker (engineering firm) to sell their ejector seats to USA, who then fit those seats into their F-16 planes which they later give to Israel. At that point, the planes get used to fire missiles at Gazans. Similarly, BAE Systems manufactures parts for the F-35 jets that Israel is using to massacre Gazans. Multiple Westminster MPs, whose salaries are paid by our tax contributions, own shares in BAE Systems. Many of those same MPs own shares in BP, a company the Israeli government has awarded gas exploration licences off the coast of Gaza (ie. occupied Palestinian territorial waters). Perhaps most importantly, our tax contributions pay for the full-throated diplomatic support the UK government provides for what Israel is doing in Gaza. So that's UK. Our nation state plays a supporting role which we as citizens are being compelled to fund, hence the recent protests. However, with USA its not just support of the Israeli occupation, its outright authorship of it. What Israel is doing in Gaza right now is only possible because of US sponsorship. Nearly all the weapons being used for the current slaughter in Gaza are paid for with the tax contributions of US citizens. Private donations to Israeli settlement expansion in the West Bank is considered charitable and therefore tax deductible in USA. This near total subsidisation of Israel's expansion project by USA allows Israel to instead use its own tax collection to fund universal healthcare, something US citizens are denied by their government. You've mentioned American communists there. I'd argue they're onto something. Here's a relevant quote from one, Michael Parenti: "Empires are enormously profitable, mostly for the ruling class. Empires are also enormously costly, mostly for the common populace. The empire feeds off the resources of the republic. The people pay the taxes and do without essentials so that the patricians can pursue their far off plunder. The center is bled so that the perimeter can expand". It should be obvious how those words map onto the US relationship with Israel. Where I can agree is that individuals striking would do nothing. Collective strike action would be needed to make any dent but with so little unionisation among US workers, that's impossible currently. Sadly, the American working class are the most downtrodden of all in the Global North despite (because of) having the wealthiest ruling class. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 18 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said: Have Palestinians got tanks (real ones)? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 minute ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Have Palestinians got tanks (real ones)? Why you asking? You in the supply market? Spoiler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freedom Farter Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 10 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Have Palestinians got tanks (real ones)? Some of them have cars which is what the missiles are to be fired at. (Genuinely, the article can be read here https://archive.ph/bDBYP). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 41 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said: Some of them have cars which is what the missiles are to be fired at. (Genuinely, the article can be read here https://archive.ph/bDBYP). It was a serious question, I didn't think they had kit that would merit that type of deterrent. I acknowledge an anti tank missile will work fairly well on an old Fiat Uno full of Palestinians. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetterlund Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 3 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said: It was a serious question, I didn't think they had kit that would merit that type of deterrent. I acknowledge an anti tank missile will work fairly well on an old Fiat Uno full of All those billions of American taxpayer dollars launched at Toyota Hiluxes in the desert since 2001 maybe taught them something after all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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