Handsome_Devil

I didn't like it initially and I would still prefer an alternative linked to bigger changes in our league system - but when you rule out everyone's fantasy ideas like that and accept the pre-existing boxes you need to tick, I think it's as good as we can possibly do. The split might be artificial excitement but it's excitement nonetheless and in the years there are true relegation/European fights there's no doubt it's cracking. Ultimately there's a reason why it has barely changed in 20-plus years and that's because there's no viable better option.

No doubt the family thing plays a part but I suspect it's also just the modern world. Previously you'd only heavily talk about the game with your mates on Saturday, work a week and look forward to doing it again. Now we spend hours in between on social media and forums telling each other how shite we are, what a miserable season it is and, in some cases, the club is doomed as a long-term entity. And back then you hated to miss a game because more often that not there were no highlights either. There are 228 games in a current top-flight season, the majority are like yesterday's - two sets of shite largely cancelling each other out and instantly forgettable. That's just the nature of where we are.

Too many to mention but losing to 10-man Aberdeen in the LC quarter-final in 2013/14 stands out - there was literally no one left in the competition and whoever won that game was basically massive favourites for the trophy. We've blown plenty other cup games but the chances of actually winning the competition were still tiny. The 2005 LC cup final was a complete no show (we were at least competitive in the other losses). Murphy's missed penalties v Odense and at Parkhead one new year which would have nominally kept us in a title race are moments like this rather than whole performances...can always miss penalties of course but some timing.

That's a fair assessment and I'd imagine it covers the view of the majority of the support. Essentially it brings us back to the situation we're in (whether any of us likes it or not) that we're backing him for next season. Personally I still think it's the right thing to try but there's no doubt there'll be frustrations along the way. What I would say is the reaction to our poorer performances post-ibrox is out of proportion to what they actually were over the 90 minutes but based on what came before. Which is understandable but rather pointless given - in practice - it's been written off with the fresh start it was deemed he deserved in January.

SOD did well, I think he can feel he did his contract renewal hopes no harm. Unlike some others. Attack had a tough day but fair play to Vale - who I thought otherwise really struggled - for his work in the goal and to Bair - in the highlights you see him making the run to bundle it in before SOD even heads it, the video and coaching boys will be high-fiving again no doubt. I remarked elsewhere Moses is an odd one...if we supposedly had him with us for a while, it's surprising that he's been deemed fit enough for zero minutes so far. Better safe than sorry ofc but still...odd.

Point apiece was definitely fair though I thought we were marginally the poorer in a shite game. Mainly because our defence looked an open door every time St Mirren got in the vicinity of it never mind pushed. Earlier in the season I think we'd have lost that but while you could argue that means progress, i think we're still basically the same - plenty of nearly good attacks just lacking the final ball and a debacle at the back. I think instead the difference is St Mirren would have punished us before but have regressed a little - early on they knew they weren't going down so played with nothing to lose, now they looked very much like a team aware they'd something to defend. I hope they settle down and hold onto fifth, and I think they will if it's Dundee who join them. Hibs seem on form though and if they can sneak over the line into sixth it could get nervous indeed. Anyway, good luck and see you next season. Hopefully!

Or sleepwalking our way to safety. Thought a point was fair though we were marginally the poorer of two shite teams. It's hard to see us getting a result next week playing like that and Hibs won't be much easier even at home. Still, we'll be going into the split with enough points you'd fancy us to stay up. But getting the win we need asap would calm a lot of nerves, if we lose the next two as assumed and follow that by losing to St J or County it's brown trousers time again.

Talk about 45 minutes that symbolises the season.

Wrexham at least seem to be spending a lot on infrastructure which builds a bit of confidence the owners are genuinely in it for the long term...but yeah, I wouldn't be rushing to that model by any means. McMahon and Weir both have business acumen infinitely above mine (and I'd humbly suggest the vast majority on here) so if they suggest there is viable investment to justify giving up control we could responsibly consider, I'm reluctant to be disrespectful in calling that bollocks. But even financially illiterate folk like me can read our accounts, the accounts of other teams, compare that to the the publicly available prize-money and conclude very quickly that the numbers required for investment with the risk of giving up control seem a long way from adding up. Fucking miles in fact. Things seemed to have calmed down a bit, which is good, but Caldwell and the Society need to take the initiative asap to...I was going to say correct the narrative but let's be fairer and say shape the narrative from here on.

I can't bring myself to actually wish for clubs down south to go bust but it's very hard to have sympathy - they all jumped on the bandwagon for this madness and plenty were very happy to do so when they thought they'd benefit. There are vague parallels to the current investment discussions in Scottish football though so I certainly wouldn't be gleeful either. There's plenty of us who will soon be making uncomfortable choices about risking the long-term future to avoid losing competitiveness and sinking like a stone short-term.

Yeah, I might browse that later. And definitely, I suspect sooner than later (no later than autumn) there'll be a meet the fans night organised through the Society which will give a more detailed insight than the standard press release quotes. Dare we risk another CEO video in the interim too? of course the manager and CEO can be blamed for spending money badly but it wasn't their money so was signed off by the board somehow. And no matter how good your intentions, there's always the chance you appoint the wrong CEO to run things, the wrong manager when you're in a position to invest or a decent CEO manager just has a bad spell of signings/form. As we repeatedly say, sport is not normal business and the margins between happiness and a seven-figure loss can be small. I expect our next accounts to be a bawhair off zero in the p/l (say 120k above or below) but the ones after will be much more interesting. I suspect they'll show a positive return because we'll have sold Miller but expenditure will be hugely increased - when we're all calling for calculated risk in investment on and off the park, you then can't cry about the new CEO when the figures are red for a couple of seasons. As an aside, I'm only an occasional listener to the Terrace podcast but the lad from Monday (Tony?) summed up our position perfectly, in the sense that we're finding a new place in the world and the fans need to get used to it. The city clubs can obviously still f**k up but the more they spend, the bigger gap we need to leap to capitalise. So maybe truly exciting seasons are now once every five-seven years rather than three or so like the last decade. Which is not outrageous by any means but leaves the question of what we stand for, what our identity off the pitch is, how can we show medium-term direction etc because keeping people engaged while fighting for ninth six seasons out of seven will be a bloody hard sell.

Not saying they're saying they're right or wrong but looking at a single set of accounts without all kinds of context and caveats is rather pointless...if someone is determined enough to dig that out and pore through it in detail fair play (I'm certainly not!) but i certainly don't see reason for concern because a headline number.

The wannabe psychologist in me would love to speak to Ian Ross, he looked a brilliant prospect when he came into side - not only doing the normal midfield stuff but being really dynamic in getting up the pitch by running past players. Bit by bit that got lost from his game and he ended up at left back I think. Did he just not hit his early potential? Lose confidence? Get the risky part coached out of him? It's particularly curious as Marc Fitzpatrick followed almost the exact same path a decade later. Anyway, two teams where it's safe to say you've no idea what you'll get on Saturday. I feel confident saying we'll win or we'll lose or it might be a draw.

I'd love them to come up. There was a much bigger rivalry with them than Hamilton back in the day and I've no doubt it'd return soon. But tbh I'd just find playing any team which has the edge of a derby more interesting than interchangeable St Mirren, St Johnstone etc of the other six.

No worries, I wasn't meaning you in particular, it just happened yours was the comment which sparked my latest rant

Sure but at the AGM it was said that those in discussions were viewing this as an entrepreneurial enterprise to make money. The language used by everyone - from those in the AGM to those on Twitter - is investor not benefactor. All kinds of people are demanding investors and they'd be well minded to know the difference. I'd absolutely love some generous idiot to hand us cash but this is 100% not what is being discussed ATM. Which is why I'm calling bullshit on it just now and questioning everyone who blindly says we have a 750k deficit, we need an investor... they're talking nonsense.

To show my age/ignorance here, who is Ewan McVicar?

Often when time passes you get a better perspective on things but our rallying call still seems as bizarre as ever. It's a total guess but I strongly suspect McMahon and Weir just blundered into an area they don't know - ie communication/marketing - and made a bollocks of it. I asked before and didn't get an answer (and I know it's a daft question because of details etc), but I would love to see the back of an envelope business plan which leads people - in our boardroom or stands - to conclude we'll be better off with investors trying to take money out the club than we are now.

Thanks for that. I did wonder about going from cup winners to relegation but always hard to know how much of that can be laid at the door of the CEO or how much they just do their best when the sporting side collapses around them.

So lads, Brian Caldwell, any good?

With the usual caveats of not knowing his personality, focus on growth v cutting costs etc, instinctively you look at his record of 25 years CEO experience of football clubs and say fine...

Definitely. I'm assuming Hearts are spending more on Spittal than we'd ever contemplate but even if they're only offering him an amount we could match, I'd be far from convinced we should - for various reasons including what you mentioned. Essentially if we pick up a journeyman 26-year-old and get two great seasons from him, you happily wish him all the best in Edinburgh or Aberdeen rather than doing anything stupid or kicking ourselves for not doing more. And while we didn't get cash on this occasion, it won't have gone unnoticed - not least because the club will shout about it loudly - that Kettlewell has now transformed the financial circumstances of Johnston, KVV and Spittal with Bair arguably on his way to joining them. I'm not saying that's unique - it is after all the job of a coach to make players better - but having so many folk make such dramatic jumps in such a short space of time is certainly unusual... probably the only similarity I can think of for us is McGarry, Clarkson and Paterson in 2007 under McGhee. As an aside on Hearts, very curious to see how they'll do next season... they've done some excellent early business on paper but safe to say there's intriguing questions as well.

Yeah, there's certainly room for that within the context of 'the model'. There's only so many experienced SPL we can sign and if we get a good chunk out of them before they move on for more money then everyone's a winner. Would I have liked to keep him, sure, bit it's hard to grudge him it or think there's much else that could have been done.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-transfer-news/blair-spittal-latest-hearts-transfer-32412276 Not confirmed yet.

That's entirely common sense and as mentioned already totally at odds with how Scottish football works sadly.