EdinburghPar1975

I know most of the Livi fans on here have said a points deduction would suit them best but how would they feel about a deduction the size of Luton Towns last year? 30 pts with no hope of an appeal against it. Would a 20 point penalty be too severe?

I'm still confused as to how Livi can afford to pay a (rumoured) £700k bond to stay in the league but their creditors can only get a 'p' per £ amount...can someone explain? Is it because the bond would be lodged by individuals and not the club itself?

Edinburgh Livi - I noticed that the clubs official page is asking for fans to now come forward and buy season tickets..do you think this will be effected by the delay in announcing what sanctions Livi will face? Given the timescales I think relegation is probably out the window but if it did happen, have you heard what would the fans who've already purchased tickets for the SFL1 season think? Also, if a ten/ fifteen point deduction was imposed do you think this would also affect sales?

HibeeJibee - it was reported last week that they were hopelessly insolvent. Given that no money (as yet) has been put towards any of the debts (as far as I am aware) and they have yet to have a home fixture I cannot see how that has possibly improved. As with some of the posts above I am unsure of how they could be seen to post a bond for 18 home fixtures yet cannot pay creditors and have to enter a CVA...although relegation seems still possible I think a points deduction is more likely to be put in place.

Yoss, i think you've managed to say in one post what I have failed to do in about 20! Totally agree with what you say above.

I'm not really sure what to make of it all to be honest. I wanted Livi to survive and keep going but if marching into Hampden when you have severe financial troubles and saying that you have a business plan to save the club that is based on SFL 1 football and no points deduction is all it takes to start from scratch, then chairman up and down the country will be getting ready to take a taxi to Mount Florida... I also have to admit to being glad for them that Massone signed over his shares to allow them to get the best possible start. Unfortunately the overwhelming majority on Livilions have resorted to gloating and abuse of anyone who has an issue with what has happened...it didn't take long to resort to type did it?

Larry, having read that the majority of Livi fans are so happy to have survived they'll take whatevers given to them i'd prepare yourself for another onslaught if it looks like it'll be a 10pt appealable penalty Good luck anyway!

Larry, one of the reasons I find this hard to take is purely from a selfish perspective. As you probably know a few years ago Dunfermline were very close to a financial meltdown (as i'm sure Captn Sensible is all to keen to mention ), we'd signed players when we must have known we couldn't afford them in order to try and stay in the league and compete. When it became clear that we were heading to admin we had to reduce all the players salaries and start making cut backs, as a result of this we are where we are now and we will struggle for quite a few years yet i'd imagine. Whilst I don't always agree with the board they didn't want the club in admin and looked to pay the debt back. I do sympathise with Livi supporters in that they have an owner who is blinkered to what is going on and continually has lied to them...but he's stil there! I'm glad you survived, but I think a large 'Luton Town' style points reduction is required.

As i've said before, in no way did I want Livi bust but i'm afraid that this whole episode stinks. As with the above can someone tell me if an assurance has been given that WLC will receive their past rent and HMRC their money..and all the other creditors before they are allowed to start running up another years debts? Perhaps i'm wrong but I was under the impression that the reason McGruther was there was as a result of a council action to receive their monies due? Given that i've yet to see anything other than an announcement that his firm will now receive a years fee's from staying on I can see no benefit at all that he has played in this episode. No current creditor has gained from this decision and like other posters I feel that the last shred of integrity that the league had has now gone. As QOS75 has stated a number of clubs will look to self preserve and vote with Livi as they will now be looking for the same protection should they get into difficulty, the league has left itself open to a lot of clubs who will just point at what happened with Livi to allow them to move on and not clear debts. The only way in my eyes that Livi should be permitted to continue in SFL1 is if a 'Luton' style deduction is imposed. They should be docked 30 points with a caveat that it is unappealable (after all, as above Hamilton got minus 15 for not playing a fixture), if Rankine and McDougall are really there for the club this won't matter to them. Yes it would relegate them but that should be the last of their concerns..at least they'll get another year of gate receipts from SFL1.

Sorry Malky, but like many people i'll believe it when I see it!

If I was a Clyde board member i'd be consulting some lawyers pretty sharpish. It appears that all you need to do is survive is not do anything and then plead for a rule change and promise to be better behaved...again! Didn't want Livi to go under but the SFL have copped out again and shown themselves as being truely spineless when faced with a real decision to make. Better hope Brechin get that hedge moved...thats the real evil after all!!

I tend to agree that the longer this goes on the higher the chances of a 'last gasp deal' being struck. Alternatively they could just be trying to work out how the announcement should be made so everyone knows whats happenning re. league places etc

has anyone heard if there has been any communications between McGruther and Don Massone? Given that the SFL meeting is only a couple of hours away I would have thought that to stand any chance of Livi being around McGruther would have to be able to tell them that the shares have now transfered. FWIW I don't think it will help as I can't see how he's going to be able to convince them that Livi can GAURANTEE to fulfill there fixtures...i think times run out... The SFL will finally be forced to act (can I just cover myself by saying that I also wouldn't be surprised to see a combination of fixture movement and rule changes to try and help)...mind you I also wouldn't be surprised to see the meeting 'postponed' for 24 hours!

Given that MvGruther is not at the SFL till tomorrow at 2 i'd be amazed if nothing was tried. In saying that, and i've said it before, i'd really have expected more following the meeting if anything could have been salvaged. Following that BBC interview I really feel for anyone who had to work with him...that man has some incredible self belief....pity its misguided.

I've just been thinking the same thing. He must be thinking he'll get more than £25k should the club be liquidated. Taking the emotion of it being a football club away from it would he really do anything else?

Just heard the same interview but i'm none the wiser. Given that the deadline has now passed and Massone is refusing to sell. McGruther has said that staff will be laid off today and following the SFL meeting tomorrow the players would potentially follow. As with other previous threads its just sounding like he's given Massone a further 24 hours to agree. Although I understand he wants a deal done its prolonging the agony for the Livi fans. They've sat and watched today and then effectively been told it'll now be tomorrow....or is it actually all over now? I really wish I could just get a straight answer!

It appears as if there is a real split between those Livi fans who think theres brinkmanship going on (like MCL) and those that have all but given up. Tomorrow I half expect to hear that Massone tried to get a deal but the interim manager knocked it back as it was riddled with clauses and add ons

I have to admit that I really thought that there would have been some kind of rant or compromise attempt from the Massone camp. I genuinely fear for Livi tomorrow, if he's going to walk away he's taking his time getting out!

When all this kicked off Massone asked for volunteers (the ambassadors) to come and help out, phone local businesses and communicate with the fans. I believe that one was quite vocal on LiviLions as he really wanted to believe that Massone was going to save them, but even he is struggling with whats happenning now.

Is there a chance that the admin guy will just accept Massones answer as being final or will he keep to the mid-day Wednesday timeline and just not go back with a new offer?

Well although its probably no comfort to Livi fans, they'll have a pretty clear picture of what will happen in 48 hours time. I know he should sell but for £25k....will his ego let him?

The league should impose a points penalty - but i'll be surprised if they do, or if they do it will probably be suspended Moving fixtures would allow short term cash but could leave Livi with a run of away games at a later point in the season moving the problem elsewhere. If they could move one of the games from the cup weekends it could work but i'm afraid that i'm a firm believer that all teams seasons should start on the same day, not a week apart. Whilst I don't want to see Livi go under I certainly don't think the league should be showing that they will forego any sanctions to help clubs survive. The club has been mismanaged from the top and teams like Airdrie have been dissadvantaged severly by this team living outwith its means and seemingly being allowed to retain its status. Clyde were, and are in financial troubles but i'd be amazed if the league allowed them to start moving fixtures about to get cash and for me they have done more to try and stem the cash losses than Livi ever have.

Massone does come across as a bit manic but even he must have reasoning for saying that the administration is not effective until 18th August. Without trying to insinuate that hes not fully up to speed does he know UK company law? Is he thinking that EU (Italian) regulations apply here? Can anyone advise why he thinks this? As for Chris Innes....the Pars need another defender..could be worth a punt?!

From a Pars fans viewpoint (and probably all the other SFL1 teams) we need the SFL to gain confirmation that Livi will play all fixtures this coming season. Any hesitatation and they should be dropped...i don't know where as it would be just as unjust for SFL3 to run a nine team league as us. If they can gain confirmation then the points penalty DF refers to is a must and any new purchaser should agree not to contest the reduction (as with Luton Town). I have sympathy for the Livi fans and really hope whatever happens, happens quickly to prevent any more unnecessary dragging out of the situation!

Am I right in thinking that the first thing the SFL will do is get in touch with the administrators and ask them to confirm that Livi will be able to complete all of this seasons fixtures...i think they'll play this week as its too late to call anything off now. I really feel for the Livi supporters this morning..even after being put into admin he's still spouting that its scandalous. If he'd paid the bills, or even tried to deal with creditors better, they wouldn't be in this position.