stanley
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Posts posted by stanley
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Blackhall become the seventh club of the season gone from the Saturday Morning AFL this season.
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1 hour ago, lowenan said:
Elgin and Forfar are in the bottom three in League Two. If one of them gets relegated, and the Lowland League winner gets promoted, there will be no relegation from the Lowland League this season.
Leaving aside the usual debate on here about relegation from the SPFL and more automatic relegation places in the Lowland League, I think there should at least be a system in place for automatic relegation for the bottom placed Lowland League side. If Elgin/Forfar were to go down and the LL champion was to go up then they could simply still relegate the bottom LL side but allow two sides up from tier 6 instead. I think that would be a pretty sensible option and wouldn't involve any increase to two automatic relegation spots. It just seems crazy that you have two sides consistently struggling at the bottom of the table each season yet they could be saved by what happens with promotion/relegation between the SPFL and League Two rather than on merit.
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9 hours ago, mcruic said:
Blantyre Soccer Academy has folded in the SMAFA - not clear if their colts team, who play in the same FA, will also fold. If so, that's 4 teams from the same association folding in less than a week.
EDIT - Their colts team will remain playing in the SMAFA Development Division.
Both teams are continuing according to Twitter.
Edit: unless I'm misreading this tweet:
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4 hours ago, zenon said:
Tannochside United announce today they have folded just months after reaching the quarter finals of the Amateur Cup.
That's a bad one considering their success. It shows that the Saturday Morning leagues aren't immune either. The Saturday Morning League has already lost several clubs since the season started (I think at least 5 so far have gone although their league has far higher numbers and is obviously doing very well compared to the afternoon leagues in the west).
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They should really do a highlights programme on the BBC for the early rounds but I suppose that would involve them knowing anything about lower/non-league football. I'm sure they used to do one?
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Well, they are certainly going to be forced to do something about the leagues in the west whether they like it or not.
From 228 clubs across seven leagues in 2013-14 (Caley, Central Scottish, Scottish Amateur, Greater Glasgow, Paisley, North & South Lanarkshire, Paisley, West of Scotland) to just 79 clubs across three leagues in 2023-24 (Caley, Scottish Premier, Greater Glasgow). There won't be many clubs left between the leagues in a few years time. On top of that, the Stirling & District league has just 12 clubs left and is struggling to survive (even taking in clubs from Fife and West Lothian in summer 2023). The bigger leagues like Caley and Scottish Premier can barely even take in new clubs from struggling local leagues now as almost all of them have folded.
Equally worrying is the LEAFA plumeting in numbers from 73 in 2013-14 to 44 in 2022-23 and now down another 10 to just 34 in 2023-24. At the current rate of decline, some of the Saturday afternoon leagues will be struggling to even survive at all in another ten years time.
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1 hour ago, rockson said:
What easier route? Maybe from the HL but have any of the clubs relegated to it even fnished second in the LL? A club relegated from the SPFL isn't exactly an attractive proposition for ambitious players, ie the ones they'd need in order to do well in the LL.
If the champions were guaranteed promotion then, yes, it would be an easier route back into the league. If relegation was opened up more from the SPFL then you'd also eventually see one of the clubs promoted into the SPFL be relegated back down and one of the clubs relegated into the LL promoted back up. Right now, it's generally the historically weaker league clubs coming down but once most of them go down, you might see one of the slightly bigger clubs get relegated out of the league too.
Brechin were obviously champions of the HL last season and are title challengers again this season. Elgin look a certainty to go down to the HL in the next few years too (if not this season) as they are regularly struggling in League Two and you've got Forfar struggling this season. It's certainly in the interests of HL-area clubs to open up relegation/promotion more. The LL is a different picture due to the huge number of clubs in that area compared to the HL and many of the biggest non-league clubs gradually working their way into the LL. Eventually, however, the situation will change as clubs find their natural level but it's going to take a long time under the current system for that to happen.
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LEAFA is in huge decline and down 10 from last season. The Glasgow Saturday afternoon leagues also in big decline and down 12 from last season (largely due to clubs leaving or folding from the Scottish Premier - they've lost clubs continually since the merger).
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5 hours ago, Gazzah said:
Be interesting to see this now the season is well underway. Be a fair
few casualty’s already this year.
Border was 31 now 25 fall of 19% same
Kingdom of Fife was 43 now 32 fall of 26% now 31 (down 1)
Perthshire was 29 now 21 fall of 28% now 20 (down 1)
Aberdeenshire was 85 now 60 fall of 29% same
Ayrshire was 57 now 36 fall of 37% same
Glasgow (all) was 160 now 86 fall of 46% now 80 (down 6)
Lothian & Edin was 73 now 37 fall of 49% now 34 (down 3)
Midlands was 53 now 21? fall of 60% same
Stirlingshire was 45 now 12 fall of 73% same1 -
Although things move incredibly slowly, I'm confident that the relegation spots will finally change. I think it's more likely that the Lowland League will open up relegation first (as the member clubs change over time and more ex-juniors gradually enter the league they'll likely have another vote at some point that is passed). I think the SPFL will change in time too but it could take several years. Hopefully the stream of clubs out of the SPFL (five of the established league clubs already gone) will eventually make clubs wake up and realise that they need to have an easier route back in.
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4 hours ago, newcastle broon said:
Instead of nitpicking on the LL particularly Gretna and Edinburgh Uni could yous not post this on the league 2 forum and point out how well Cove Kelty Bonnyrigg and now Spartans are doing coming from non league football?
End of the day it's the same old shouts that the LL should open up but until the SPFL do then the LL won't be in any hurry to change their relegation format.
I've often said how great Cove etc. are doing and how the SPFL should open up more relegation spots (10th down automatically, 9th facing a playoff).
I'm not sure why that contradicts me also wanting the Lowland League to open up more relegation spots. I'm not sure who benefits from Edinburgh Uni and Gretna languishing at the bottom of the table for another year or two (certainly don't think it does either club much good).
There's really no merit in the argument that the LL should stay at potentially 0 relegation spots just because the SPFL does the same.
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1 hour ago, Shannon said:
No disrespect to the supporters of Edinburgh Uni and Gretna 2008 but once they both go down the Lowland League really will be very tight at both ends of the table and far better league for it.
You could have an ex SPFL club in Albion Rovers, East Stirling or Berwick Rangers in particular going down to West / East of Scotland leagues. I know Cowdenbeath also another but I think when EK go up they may then go for a promotion push & seem okay... as literally no point for them spending big cash at moment although Cumbernauld Colts are doing amazing to challenge EK / Tranent / Bo'ness.
I know at the moment it is tight between Edinburgh Uni & Gretna but a big game to 16th spot and I don't expect either team to even get to 13 points or get close to challenge 16th.
Certainly wouldn't surprise me to see an ex-SPFL club go down in the next few years. I think it would definitely happen if relegation opened up more/if there was at least one guaranteed relegation spot each season. East Stirling are probably one of the favourites to go down when Gretna and Edinburgh Uni are finally out of the league (we might not even see one of them go down this year the way Elgin/Forfar are doing so far).
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On 12/10/2023 at 20:43, stanley said:
Danderhall Miners folded from the LEAFA. Now down from 42 at the end of 2022/23 to just 35 teams.
And another one gone (Terry McMillan). Down to 34.
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Danderhall Miners folded from the LEAFA. Now down from 42 at the end of 2022/23 to just 35 teams.
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20 hours ago, amigan said:
Also feel the SFA missed a trick adding the likes of Annan to the SPFL before Gala when the Borders has no teams at that level. Could have kicked things on for the region.
As has been pointed out, Gala Fairydean didn't apply then.
Gala Fairydean - 2002, 2000, 1994, 1966
Preston Athletic - 2008, 2002, 2000
Gretna - 2002, 2000, 1994
Elgin City - 2000, 1994, 1974
Annan Athletic - 2008, 2000
Cove Rangers - 2008, 2000
Edinburgh City - 2008, 2002
Ross County - 1994, 1974
Hawick Royal Albert - 1974, 1966
Spartans - 2008
Airdrie United - 2002
Huntly - 2002
Peterhead - 2000
Caledonian Thistle - 1994
Ferranti Thistle - 1974
Inverness Thistle - 1974
Gateshead United - 1974
Forres Mechanics - 1974
Clydebank - 1966
Crazy decisions included electing Ferranti Thistle ahead of Inverness Thistle in 1974 and electing Gretna in 2002 ahead of six clubs.
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From what I can tell, five teams have already folded from the Scottish Premier this season although they're still listed in the tables:
1) Lesmahagow
2) Lochgilphead Red Star
3) Castlemilk Dynamo
4) Dunoon
5) RutherglenPremier is down to 9 and Championship down to 14.
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6 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:
... competing with SMAFL + GCAFA?
Certainly sounds like it: "Going forward our objective is to promote and develop the GGPAFL - SMS, as the top Premier Saturday Morning Football League in Scotland".
Interesting to see if any sides from those leagues move over or if any existing GGPAFL sides convert to Saturday morning football. Certainly could be a sign of the future of Saturday amateur football in the west.
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Greater Glasgow Premier AFL creating a new Saturday Morning section for 2024/25:
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2 hours ago, ekok said:
Please understand no matter what happens in Tier 4, the only way there will not be a promotion into the LL is if there is not a licensed champion from East/ South / West qualifying to be promoted. Unlikely in the extreme now.
Well, yes, I understand that but my post was about relegation from the Lowland League not promotion into it.
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Far from guaranteed to have any relegation this season with three Highland League area clubs struggling at the start of the season in League Two.
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Are there any amateur teams that could make the step up? The league could have done with Jeanfield, Kinnoull and Luncarty to boost the numbers but that ship seems to have sailed. At least Montrose Roselea came back.
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18 minutes ago, Dev said:
But this is all done and dusted isn't it so why have a go when someone states the blindingly obvious about what the EoS failed to do to the last of the Juniors to join. It isn't as though what he said now makes any bleeding difference!
There was no need to "hold back the last of the Juniors" when the EoS had made excellent use of the Conferences system previously. It was an opportunity to bury the hatchets. Don't forget that Conferences were used partly to encourage Junior clubs to join (therefore decimating the Juniors in the East) and partly to get clubs playing as one combined unit in playing divisions which were suited to the strengths of the clubs (which had a very wide range of abilities).
Anyway it's just taking a bit longer for these clubs to find their natural playing levels when that period could have been smaller. End of.
Like you said, it won't take too long for them to find their natural place in the pyramid with 3/4 promotion spots up for grabs in each league. If good enough, all but one will be out of the third division by the end of next season (and Livingston United still haven't recovered from signing Goodwillie). To be honest, the clubs probably haven't minded having another couple of seasons of local derbies before moving up so I don't think it's worked out too badly. It'll be interesting to see how far they go and what the third division is like in a couple of years time. It would be better for all to focus on the future of the pyramid than regularly throwing out accusations about past actions IMO.
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1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:
...and that might encourage Eyemouth, Selkirk, Kelso and Duns to return or give it another go as the case may be turning the third division into a heavily Borders one rather than a West Lothian skewed one.
Not having the last of the junior clubs to join participate in the last year of the conference format two seasons ago was petty and vindictive but eventually clubs will find their natural level. Suspect Whitburn, Syngenta (in the guise of Camelon), Armadale and the club formerly known as Linlithgow Thistle are all headed for the EoS premier in the not too distant future. Far from impossible Bathgate and Fauldhouse could do likewise further down the road if they are able to get their act together again.
If West Lothian and Stirlingshire clubs are heading up somebody has to be heading down and I don't see why anyone who isn't from Innerleithen should be losing any sleep over that if it's Vale of Leithen. Nothing wrong with local derbies against Peebles Rovers and Linton Hotspur, if that turns out to be your natural level in the game.
Here we go with that same old argument.
Kelty joined in 2017.
25 more joined in 2018.
Glenrothes and Kinnoull joined in 2019.
8 more joined in 2020.
The remaining West Lothian sides finally joined in 2021.
The EoS ran conferences in 2018-19, 2019-20 and 2020-21. How long were they supposed to wait for the WL sides to join?
Edit: Amazing how you can even find a way to bring the old junior/senior divide into a thread about Vale of Leithen.
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9 hours ago, Ivo den Bieman said:
Sadly looks like they'll be rubbing shoulders with Lochgelly Albert and Harthill Royal at the bottom of the third division by 2025.
VoL were always early round cup stalwarts back in the day but now seem to be sinking faster that Chinese stocks.
Probably a good thing for them and might give them a chance to compete again and rebuild. Hawick aren't doing amazing in the third division but they are competing. Must be better than getting hammered every week. Eventually, you'll probably have three or four borders sides in the bottom division.
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First Refusal: the EOS First Division 2023-24
in East of Scotland Football League
Posted
Whitburn v Dunipace abandoned in injury time.