mcruic
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Posts posted by mcruic
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I don't take into account youth leagues, but the others you mention are the largest adult leagues, along with the Aberdeenshire amateurs. The Lothian & Edinburgh Amateur FA has the most teams (89), but they are split into Saturday (45) and Sunday (44) sections.
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Just testing the feasibility of having all results in one place - I think if I stick to league results, it's possible. At the moment, all junior results can be found in one place, and most senior results, but to find amateur or welfare results, you have to visit each individual website. It would definitely be handy to have all tables and league results in one place.
Entering results in a certain format in Excel seems to be the easiest way, with a separate file for each association. I'd then have to write some code in Python (I'm not an expert in this, but I can do it given a few days). This would be do take the results from Excel and display them on the website, and also calculate and display the league tables.
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2 new teams for the Glasgow & District Sunday League - East End Athletic and Dynamo Glasgow.
I mentioned on here "Dormy Forrest" of the Strathclyde Saturday Morning League, and how it might be a misspelling - they've now changed it to Dormy Forest on the website.
I also tweeted another club - Lanarkshire Forrest - (Glasgow & District Saturday Morning League) - they insist their name is spelled "Forrest". SAFA has both "Forrest" and "Forest" on different parts of the website. Their club badge used to have a tree on it, which I assume related to the Forest (or Forrest. The thing is, now I don't know if they've just misspelled it, but they've been on the go for a few years now and nobody seems to have noticed if they have. Possibly Forrest refers to something else.
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7 minutes ago, ShrimpLok said:
Well if you're doing it that way you should have 3 senior clubs in East Renfrewshire - Neilston, Arthurlie and St Cadocs.
Thanks - updated!
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14 hours ago, ShrimpLok said:
Harthill Royal’s ground is in West Lothian so you can’t include them as a North Lanarkshire team.
So only 11 council areas playing Junior.Yeah - it's in Greenrigg - I've crossed the "border" a few times as some of my family live in Harthill and some in Whitburn. With the list, I've tried as much as possible to list the location of the club as the town it is meant to represent (hence why BSC Glasgow is in Glasgow and not Alloa). So, yes, correct, Harthill's ground is in West Lothian, although Harthill, the town it represents, is in North Lanarkshire.
There's a lot of amateur teams as well play "cross-border" from the town they represent (many teams around Glasgow play in Glasgow for convenience). Isle of Arran FC play in Kilwinning, but the club is based in Brodick. Within the same council area, there are some teams who don't play in the original area they were named after (Dunipace don't play in Dunipace, but in Denny - Blairgowrie don't play in Blairgowrie, but in Rattray).
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1 hour ago, gogsy said:
Any plans to expand site to include stuff like results?
I did have results on my website a couple of years ago (for juniors) before the SJFA got themselves together and got results on their site regularly - so there was no longer a need for me to do it.
With amateurs and welfare, there isn't one central site for all the results, so I guess that could be something to consider doing. Would be good to have all results in one place. Would essentially have to set aside most of a day though to update the results. But it could be done. There is a Scottish Amateur Fitba News site already, but I don't think it does results comprehensively. Given that I already do results for 80 sports on my website, I guess I'm yaesed tae the trachle!
So, I guess I could set up a page for each league, with results and table (and cup competitions if that doesn't stretch me too far). I wouldn't bother with fixtures - too many changes - better just to input the matches as they play.
The Fife side you are missing is Kincardine Colts, who for some reason were playing Sunday football last year in the Football Central Sunday League (most of the teams come from Falkirk to Glasgow area).
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I've compiled an overview of the "grades" by council area - Juniors are now the smallest grade in terms of numbers, but still hanging on in 12 of the 32 council areas.
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Current setup in Scotland looks something like this.
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2 hours ago, GordonS said:
Same as the comments above, plus:
Lowland League - BSC Glasgow play in Alloa, in Clackmannanshire.
EoS - I don't think I'd call Camelon a town, it's a suburb of Falkirk.
Yeah, I've put some teams in based on their original location (I believe BSC Glasgow play there "temporarily", even though they've been there for a while). I think if they get into the SFL, they will move back to Glasgow. Or they might do a Clyde and just change towns altogether. But they are technically a "Glasgow club", hence the name.
I've put in recognisable areas within towns that have become swallowed up. They are still treated separately for the census.
For some of the amateur/welfare teams, it was pretty hard to pinpoint where they play (or are based), so there may be a few errors. But they're all there now, 1,260+ teams.
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8 hours ago, Marten said:
Another minor correction: it's Perth & Kinross, not Perthsire & Kinross.
Yeah don't know why I done that - it's my home county! I've changed it now.
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2 hours ago, GNU_Linux said:
Minor correction is that Langholm is in Dumfries & Galloway not the Scottish Borders
All corrections welcome! Manual data entry can get a bit tedious, and mistakes like this do happen.
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1 hour ago, jimmycouch said:
Ayrshire leagues latest update was that all leagues would be the same as last season with no promotion or relegation.
But have asked clubs for their ideas, so that may change.Thanks - I'll update as info comes in. I went by their website which had promotion/relegation icons on the league tables - of course, that's probably just placemarkers.
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I'm trying to put together as complete a list as possible of the composition of all adult football leagues in Scotland (senior down to welfare). In some cases, compositions are educated guesses.
I've completed the Seniors/Juniors and the East and North amateurs. About to start on the West Amateurs. I believe there is a new league starting next year (Football Central Lanarkshire Sunday).
While I'm doing this, I'm also putting in the towns where the teams play for reference, as there doesn't seem to be a website that has this info for all the teams. In some cases, the club's town is the town it comes from, and not necessarily the place it currently plays.
http://theroonba.com/scotfoot/scotfoot.htm
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5 hours ago, Black Pennel said:
It was clear enough to me before the thread started three years ago. Didn't stop you & several others making the same obvious statements over & over again.
Didn't stop you commenting on them either
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13 hours ago, NewBallsPlease said:
In my opinion the SSMAFL is ‘behind’ only Ayrshire, Caledonian and CSAFL.
In last 3 seasons, this has been the number of clubs who have reached the Last 32 of the Scottish.
1= Central Scottish: 18
1= Caledonian: 18
3 Ayrshire: 13
4 Lothian & Edinburgh: 9
5 Stirling & District: 7
6 Scottish AFL: 6
7 Strathclyde Saturday Morning: 5
8 Midlands: 5
9= Kingdom of Fife: 4
9= Glasgow Colleges: 4
11= Glasgow Saturday Morning: 2
11= Great Glasgow Premier: 2
13= Aberdeenshire: 1
13= Dundee Saturday Morning: 1
13= Perthshire: 1
15= Strathclyde Evangelical Churches: 0
15= Border: 02 -
14 hours ago, sctv said:
Sundays don’t count then?
Well, yes, and welfare count as well. But I'm keeping it easy at the moment.
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9 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:
As we've been occasionally lucky to find posters on this forum don't run football.
Don't think anyone imagined the 2018-19 EoSFL Conference season. Most people were stuck on "What will they do if there's more than 18 teams?!?!" conundrum.
No one really saw the pyramid leagues going along with the "Yeah, sure you can still play in the Junior Cup, As long as the senior calendar takes priority" compromise. That helped get the entire West Region into the WoSFL.
The vast majority of semi-profesional clubs are now in the pyramid. Those that are in it can focus on getting licenced to allow for more fluid movements between the leagues. Which allows for the overall structure to be tweaked along the way.
I still think the overall structure should come first, then the licensing. I mean, without the WoSFL, there would have been no real reason for the WoS Junior clubs to get licensed. The tweaking of the structure to allow them into the pyramid has provided the impetus for their future licensing.
In time, there may be a situation where the majority of Tier 6 clubs are licensed. If and when the WoS teams get licensed, a move to a 3-league Tier 5 would be sensible (Lowland dividing into East and West leagues), but only if SPFL2 above can enlarge to make way for a 3-up 3-down scenario - which seems a very long way away...
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8 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:
The EoS opened up to mass entry at Tier 6. The WoSFL was started at Tier 6. The North Juniors have the opportunity to enter at Tier 6.
That's the exact starting point they would have been working from in 2013. Whoever these "people" are, they obviously aren't running the leagues.
Promotion from Tier 6 to Tier 5 is tied to licencing. Always has been. That's why LTHV, Leith Athletic, St Cuthbert Wanderers, and Wigtown & Bladnoch were all denied promotion over the years. Extra promotion opportunities will come along once there's Tier 6 WoSFL clubs licenced. Right now there's none.
Agreed - lazy on my part - these "people" are usually to be found on this forum.
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1 minute ago, LongTimeLurker said:
The RoI's attempt to start a pyramid soon collapsed to something even worse than the Dutch scenario.
Indeed - there are always great counterexamples. But this gives some people in Scotland the comforting thought "Oh well, Ireland couldn't do it, so we're not the only ones".
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4 hours ago, Stag Nation said:
There's been nothing to stop the top junior teams applying for membership of the Scottish League over the last 100 years, when vacancies occurred.
There has - themselves and loyalty to "the grade". Now that that's finally (gradually) being removed, there should be nothing to stop their progression. There's an attitude among a lot of people that "juniors should wait their turn" because they "missed the boat". That kind of attitude won't help create unity. The East Juniors that were against it at the beginning eventually joined the pyramid and I think it's fair to say most of them realise they had been mistaken to oppose it before. There's no sense punishing or denigrating them for past errors of judgment. Also, the pyramid is a bit disjointed at the moment (and there was no clarity as to how it would evolve) - so you can't really blame teams for having some trepidation.
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1 hour ago, Marten said:
You make some fair points, but the bit in bold simply isn't true. Scotland is definitely not the only country. That doesn't mean the issues you describe shouldn't be fixed, but claiming that only Scotland has that issue and only Scotland has such a disjointed league system whilst that can be easily refuted won't help the argument.
Perhaps in Western Europe then. In other countries (such as Armenia, Azerbaijan), there is a simple division between professional and amateur (amateur clubs can get licensed if they want to join the pro leagues). There aren't four separate grades, with no clear connection between them.
The point is, most countries around us have managed (including all in the British Isles).
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7 hours ago, Black Pennel said:
TLDR.
I don't have twenty years left to wait to see how this pans out.
Could you chaps type quicker, be less verbose, and get to the fucking point please ?
The point:
Amateurs: Organise yersels a wee bit better.
Juniors: Git yirsels jined up.
Awbdie else: Work thegither fir common guid.It's a bit more nuanced than that, but massive oversimplification seems to be all the rage these days, so there ya go.
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1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:
The expression "possession is 9/10ths of the law" comes to mind when people try and extrapolate how the leagues are going to look 10-15 years into the future.
There's an obvious flaw in using the all time PPG for example. Talbot 18 seasons, Hurlford 7 seasons, Pollok 17 seasons, Irvine Meadow 12 seasons, Beith 12 seasons, Kilwinning 7 seasons, Glenafton 15 seasons. That's a decent spread of tenures in the top West Region league.
Yet the not so flashy Cumnock Juniors played 16 seasons in the top West Region League and finished 15th in the all time PPG.
It's going to be a lot harder to overhaul the leagues than some people seem to imagine on paper.
I don't think anyone predicted both Ross County and Inverness CT (or Livingston or Gretna) would reach the Premier. But at least they got the chance. Nothing to stop one of the top junior teams reaching the Premier in 10 years - except the current structure of Scottish football.
It's easy to do on paper - most people could come up with several systems better than the current system - things have to start on paper. Unfortunately, most of these people don't have any power to make any changes.
Again - it's the only country in Europe that has such a disjointed system of leagues. There's nothing special or different about Scotland except the inability of so-called football people to get together and actually come up with a proper system.
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40 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:
There is no "place" in a pyramid system.
During the time of the West Region Superleague/Premiership era there were 6 different champions. 5 of them were relegated.
East Region Superleague era is a similar story. 6 different champions, 4 of them were relegated.
I understand your point. But, in general, there are good clubs who are there or thereabouts most years. To illustrate this, the Top 7 teams of all time in the West Superleague on PPG (Auchinleck, Hurlford, Pollok, Irvine Meadow, Beith, Kilwinning, Glenafton) were also the Top 7 teams the 2019/20 Premiership. So it's fair to say their "place" is at the top of the West portion of the pyramid. Similarly, the East teams with the best PPG of all time are pretty much all top teams in the EoS or East Juniors now. It's fair to say that Auchinleck Talbot's "place" in the pyramid should be consistently higher than that of Bonnyton Thistle. I realise teams move, else there would be no point playing any matches - but there is a general trend, and teams generally do have a certain place in the grand scheme of things.
Or perhaps this - there are leagues that are consistently better than others when their member teams meet in competitive matches.
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All Scottish Leagues - composition for *next season.
in Amateur Football
Posted
Thanks - I had Rob Roy correct, but not Rossvale (I wasn't aware of their nominal location).