Buddist Monk

I'm happy to see a bit of banter, but don't the Morton fans realise the irony of posting on here about our defeat when their own team got horsed?

So... Stewart in goals and a back line of McKenzie and Baird and we're getting humped 30 minutes in. Classic armchair punditry!

For me the loan looks like Ross might have worries about Irvine. He was great the end of last season, looked a little lacking in the games so far in this one. I'm sure he'll come good (again) but happy to have cover. Would Ross have worked with him at Hearts? Striker is still one I'd like to see added. Reilly I guess will add goals, how many I have no idea. Sutton, either the way he's been played or just time taking it's toll, I don't see contributing much this season. Stewart looks like he could be good if given game time but he does look raw. Not seen Hilson yet, thought I had but I believe it was O'Keefe. Not sure what O'Keefe's preferred position is. Looked bright though. Davis might be brought in, not sure if it's a "done deal" yet, but you'd imagine you'd be waiting until the end of September before he gets up to speed. I've got my doubts about Buchanan just now but, like Irvine, it might just take him a few games to get up to speed, but I'd definitely be tempted to play a combo of McKenzie and Baird. Samson looks pretty much the player that left us, and in many ways that's good, but I'd also like to see (the other) Stewart getting a run - perhaps in the game against Airdrie as I hate to say it but I feel that might be a "dead rubber" (I hope not).

Thing with Samson is you know what you're getting, which is both bad and good. He is a decent shot stopper, but (certainly imo) his distribution was poor. Will definitely do a job for us in this league, and with Stewart wide on the right (not his natural position) it seems that is the preferred out ball now. Not sure if they did this during the Livi game. Long term you'd be hoping the other Stewart would be aimed to steal #1 though..

Said it already that Buchanan does not look solid, but he has looked solid in the past when playing for Dumbarton, so for me it's a case of him finding form. I suppose it's a coin toss between allowing a player to play into form or to drop them; both options have their relevant pros and cons, so it'll be interesting to see how Ross manages this. Personally I don't think Baird did anything wrong in the last part of last season and would maybe have played him, with McKenzie as the two main centre backs. Davis coming in, if he does, I think will improve things - all with the caveats regarding his continued fitness - but that won't be for a couple of months.

So doing what I should have done in the first place yeah, it was twice in the 90's. The 95/96 was the one was I was thinking of, didn't realise they squeaked past us in 97/98. So, is that us done.. ..are we all agreed that Morton have managed to force their way above their far more accomplished derby rivals a total of 4 times out of 40? No matter how you slice it, those stats make for horrendous/hilarious reading.

What ones? 40 years is 77. I think they finished above us in the mid to late 90's, then twice recently.

Worrying about our manager going to a smaller team with poor facilities? Do you know, you are spot on. I just threw the figures together from memory, but you know... either way those are damning statistics. I mean, if you really wanted to f**k the percentages you could do it based on the number of times they have finished above us in the top tier (I encourage people to google it, it's fun). I'll amend my post, and even with the amendment they are still "crazy figures". I believe the term around here is "minter".

I think you've chosen the wrong meme. I was more like this...

How's that working out for you buddy. Most would consider it a complete red neck to publicly call out people only to be made to look a complete fool yourself. In fact it's quite a feat, your desperate slavering has only backfired. "Delicious viewing", indeed. You really have a stiffy for St Mirren. I can understand why, after all being a Morton fan means your club has failed to match us on and off the park and have failed to do so for decades. In fact, from memory, Morton fans have only seen their club finish above St Mirren in the league 4 times in the last 40 years. Forty. That works out at 10%. Flip that around and you have a 90% likeliness that St. Mirren will finish above Morton. Ninety percent. Crazy figures, just crazy figures, so you can see why some Morton fans are like they are. We should pity them, not castigate. Even this year, their supposed best year since the late 80's. They have won nothing, lost out at the first hurdle at the playoffs, and even in the head to heads they can't even beat us - despite St. Mirren having one of the worst squad/manager combo's I've probably ever seen at the club.

So, right, let's get this straight. I posted that he wasn't leaving, gave solid reasons why that was the case. He has now come out and said, "f**k the Dee", primarily for the reasons I gave. However in between those things, several members preceded to absolutely shit themselves with some Morton trolls being particularly apt in the auto-encopresis stakes, Demonstrating perfectly that there is a considerable section of posters here who really shouldn't remove the safety labels from around their home. So, in short, I was totally right, Ross isn't going to Dundee and for the reasons I gave. So, "yay! me!", and a "hilarious" meme for those who really should be embarrassed by their comments...

There is absolutely no suggestion they cannot be top 6, but look at who is likely to be their competition. Celtic, Rangers, Aberdeen (and probably) Hearts - with or without Cathro - are likely to take up 4 of the places, leaving 2. St Johnstone are almost perennial top 6 finishers so we have one place left. Arguably County's backer is far richer than the Americans that bankroll Dundee. Thistle have had a lot of cash invested in them. Hibs would have to be in for a shot at the top 6. So really it's a case of diminishing returns the more you actually look at it. Dundee were competing at the high levels of European competitions, but that's (many) decades ago, so going by the logic of "they've done it once so they can do it again" really you can't argue against them being capable of top 6. It's whether they would be is a different matter and the truth of that is you can't really say until Ross was actually in the job so we are both dealing in conjecture here. I take your opinion, but surely you have to see mine. The word I have issue with is "significant". I have debated whether it is a step up in my first post (or posts as it seems, sorry I can't seem to delete me earlier double post), and obviously I have tailored that to suit my argument but it's by no means going out on a limb. (Re)building the team, the stadium and the facilities is maybe a big job that Ross Probably shouldn't have used Rovers in that example.. ;)

It's simply not. I've explained above why that is the case. Could it be consider a step up? Possibly, is it a "significant" step? No, not even in the slightest, unless of course you consider something like St Mirren a significant step up from Raith Rovers.

Yeah, as a summary of the situation I'd call that pretty way off. Those totally shite freefall teams didn't just give up. Dumbarton, yourselves and several others didn't just walk up and say "you know, we can't be f*cked, you just have the points". As for the division being harder next season? Did you miss the years where there was Hibs, Hearts and Rangers in the league? Compare that to a demoralised and managerless Inverness and a United side with financial worries, add in a presumably (and ever present) solid Falkirk and you have arguably the weakest division for some years. Perhaps your post was kidology, and if it was well done you have snared me into a reply, but only because the points you make do not match up with the reality of what happened and what will happen.

Are Dundee a bigger team? Probably, but only just. Certainly 40 or 50 years ago, but now? Much of a muchness. Got a bit of time for the Dundee fans, when we won the league in 2001 at Love Street, they stood to applaud us. So fair play with that. Will Ross go to Dundee? No, and I will give you 3 main reasons... 1) Infrastructure. Dundee may have 'wealthy' backers but the stadium is dilapidated and facilities are only in the pipeline rather than built - unlike St Mirren. Essentially taking over as a coach (coach mind, not manager) it's clear going from St Mirren to Dundee is a backwards step. We saw with Love Street how expensive it can be to build a decent (in relation) stadium. Dens could be sold, money could be raised, grants could be sought, but ultimately you are talking a rough £10m plus all the upheaval of building (or moving to) the new stadium and the knock on effect that has on the team transfer budget. No doubts, St Mirren completely lucked out with Tesco, but I can't see that happening with Dens. 2) League position. McCann barely papered over the cracks at Dundee. He did what he needed to do (keep them up) but it's obvious that squad needs a serious shake down. You would expect money to be available to any manager, although that is discussed in (1). All the time at Dundee he would need to worry about the relegation battle. Obviously there is no way I can state for a fact St Mirren won't end up in the same position as it was last season, but I think even the most myopic of observers will be hard pushed to give a cogent argument to support that view. So in that sense the pressure will be pushing for the top rather than avoiding a death spiral at the bottom. All in all, the margin of error is considerably greater at St Mirren. At Dundee Ross would get maybe 5-6 games honeymoon period and the pressure would be on - not always a negative thing, btw - but it's definitely a gamble and the way the squads, finances and facilities are just now it's not necessarily good odds on that gamble. 3) Don't finish a job half way through. This is all intangible, but imo, I believe that Ross feels he has only just turned the ship around rather than set it's course. Why would you put so much effort into something only to decide to walk away? Obviously the lure of the bait is what's key here. McInnes goes to Sunderland, would Ross jump at the chance at Aberdeen? Of course he would, but that really is a big step up. As postulated before, there really isn't that level of step up to Dundee. Bringing players in, working with them, and almost redefining the team from the bottom up - and not just that but to succeed at the task in hand (avoiding relegation) - it would seem like months of "wasted" work (relatively, the objective was set and matched) especially to return to square one with Dundee. There is no specific metric to this other than general logic - so it's the 'weakest' argument of all, but most would probably agree that Ross would always harbour thoughts of "what if" should he walk away now. From everything he says, and he does seem to be pretty straight forward when it comes to speaking to the press and media, it certainly leans towards him wanting to test what he has learned over the last 6 months and make a real tilt at the title. In short? Ross won't go, Dundee are a marginally bigger team - although not by much, facilities and stadium wise it's a step down to move there and finally the job needing done at Dundee is effectively the job he has started on 6 months ago with St Mirren, so once more a step back. Are there positive arguments for him to go to Dundee? Of course there are, you'd be stupid to suggest otherwise, but while the grass might be greener on the other side (or at least richer) it is by no means any more sweet. All in all, if he does actually go, he's certainly lasted longer than Iain Munro.

Are Dundee a bigger team? Probably, but only just. Certainly 40 or 50 years ago, but now? Much of a muchness. Got a bit of time for the Dundee fans, when we won the league in 2001 at Love Street, they stood to applaud us. So fair play with that. Will Ross go to Dundee? No, and I will give you 3 main reasons... 1) Infrastructure. Dundee may have 'wealthy' backers but the stadium is dilapidated and facilities are only in the pipeline rather than built - unlike St Mirren. Essentially taking over as a coach (coach mind, not manager) it's clear going from St Mirren to Dundee is a backwards step. We saw with Love Street how expensive it can be to build a decent (in relation) stadium. Dens could be sold, money could be raised, grants could be sought, but ultimately you are talking a rough £10m plus all the upheaval of building (or moving to) the new stadium and the knock on effect that has on the team transfer budget. No doubts, St Mirren completely lucked out with Tesco, but I can't see that happening with Dens. 2) League position. McCann barely papered over the cracks at Dundee. He did what he needed to do (keep them up) but it's obvious that squad needs a serious shake down. You would expect money to be available to any manager, although that is discussed in (1). All the time at Dundee he would need to worry about the relegation battle. Obviously there is no way I can state for a fact St Mirren won't end up in the same position as it was last season, but I think even the most myopic of observers will be hard pushed to give a cogent argument to support that view. So in that sense the pressure will be pushing for the top rather than avoiding a death spiral at the bottom. All in all, the margin of error is considerably greater at St Mirren. At Dundee Ross would get maybe 5-6 games honeymoon period and the pressure would be on - not always a negative thing, btw - but it's definitely a gamble and the way the squads, finances and facilities are just now it's not necessarily good odds on that gamble. 3) Don't finish a job half way through. This is all intangible, but imo, I believe that Ross feels he has only just turned the ship around rather than set it's course. Why would you put so much effort into something only to decide to walk away? Obviously the lure of the bait is what's key here. McInnes goes to Sunderland, would Ross jump at the chance at Aberdeen? Of course he would, but that really is a big step up. As postulated before, there really isn't that level of step up to Dundee. Bringing players in, working with them, and almost redefining the team from the bottom up - and not just that but to succeed at the task in hand (avoiding relegation) - it would seem like months of "wasted" work (relatively, the objective was set and matched) especially to return to square one with Dundee. There is no specific metric to this other than general logic - so it's the 'weakest' argument of all, but most would probably agree that Ross would always harbour thoughts of "what if" should he walk away now. From everything he says, and he does seem to be pretty straight forward when it comes to speaking to the press and media, it certainly leans towards him wanting to test what he has learned over the last 6 months and make a real tilt at the title. In short? Ross won't go, Dundee are a marginally bigger team - although not by much, facilities and stadium wise it's a step down to move there and finally the job needing done at Dundee is effectively the job he has started on 6 months ago with St Mirren, so once more a step back. Are there positive arguments for him to go to Dundee? Of course there are, you'd be stupid to suggest otherwise, but while the grass might be greener on the other side (or at least richer) it is by no means any more sweet. All in all, if he does actually go, he's certainly lasted longer than Iain Munro.

Test