Dundee Hibernian
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Posts posted by Dundee Hibernian
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Was there a tradition throughout Scotland of charity games involving various professions competing against each other?
From 1979, Ministers v Butchers, at Tannadice.
I recall the Clergy v Police was an annual fixture at Stenhousemuir in the '60s into the '70s.
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Tremendous entertainment last night, capped by the Ross Taylor cameo performance, which was both exhilarating and amusing, including Peterhead players failing to wipe him out twice in the closing minutes and his slapstick rugby tackle a few moments earlier.
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On 10/11/2023 at 14:25, Molotov said:
I always liked the steepness of the terrace back in the 80s plus the corner adverts in the terracing wall were a great feature!
The corner advert on a raised terrace wall at the Shed (west) end is still there, the one at the other is gone:
While I'm here, this is the Jerry Kerr Stand (Main Stand when it opened in 1962) early in the construction stage:
In 1992, the George Fox Stand was built:
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16 hours ago, billyg said:
About 15 years ago St Mirren played a replayed cup tie at Tannadice . The appointed ref was Alan Freeland who I believe was from the Tayside area. Wee Gus came out and said to the SFA , "we're not playing the game with him in charge as there will be local bias " ! SFA said no , and Freeland reffed the game , in the process he gave St Mirren everything and we won. Maybe it's time for some clubs to call out certain referees officially , get it out in the open , let the refs know officially that people are suspicious and they're being watched , not just on social media.
Freeland lived around 70 miles away from Tannadice and Tayside, he is from the Aberdeen. I can't recall if Freeland gave St Mirren everything in that game, but he did ignore an obvious offside at the winning goal for Saints.
I put it down to him being a useless official rather than any bias caused by Gus MacPherson.
VAR wouldn't have changed things in that game possibly, as VAR is being abused inconsistently.
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7 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:
Moult had a bit of an off day finishing wise. Not something we could say too often so far this season.
I think Moult was even more off form last week v ICT, he's hopefully just going through a rough patch.
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15 hours ago, Nigel Blackwell said:
No doubt that the winner had a huge slice of luck attached
I thought Nicky Jamieson had 'sliced' it out the park, initially.
The Spartans appeared to learn quickly that ref Scott could be easily conned, with Cammy Russell the worst culprit. Scott's performance was poor, equal to some of the home players in the first 45. But what an entertaining second half!
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16 minutes ago, Sarto Mutiny said:
By the way, those incels in the North West are angry bunch, aren't they? Grown men absolutely seething at someone shushing them. Relax, guys. You'll live longer.
4 minutes ago, DAFC. said:Football fans being angry at players making gestures shock.
I reckon, in the same way United fans were 'abusing' Sharp when he came on in the second half, and Jakubiak too, Fotheringham may have been getting slagged for playing for a rival at one point (or two in Kai's case).
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Don't think I've heard the phrase "drop of the shoulder" nearly enough.
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20 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:
Someone please tell me that Goosey is lying about Todd.
He's usually itk about these things.
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4 hours ago, Wacky said:
it’s the poor dog I feel sorry for. She should have been charged with animal cruelty IMO.
I recall the dog was taken into an animal shelter following this incident.
I've met quite a few 'ladies' like her, and several men too, who have souped up an incident trying to get someone else into trouble. It's child-like behaviour.
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7 hours ago, Busta Nut said:
I canny believe people watch English fitba. It's a fucking circus.
I agree. But I'd enjoy watching the circus more.
50 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:All the stadia and players are just so fucking generic. It looks like a computer game*. No thank you.
*Top flight. The lower leagues are a bit more interesting, in a "smash it up to the big lad and chase after it" kind of way.
I tune in to all the English leagues, mostly highlights, sometimes live games. Plus in the last few days games in Brazil, Czechia, Portugal, Spain and Germany.
It seems like the English top league is the one which wastes most time on VAR decisions, and Scottish football will likely follow that lead soon enough.
Reiterating something I've mentioned months ago on this thread, VAR cannot be used to determine marginal offsides: the point at which a travelling ball leaves the foot can't possibly be picked up and isolated to compare to the position of a potentially offside player. The cameras used don't have the fps to judge this, in the same way as the cameras can't tell in extreme cases if the ball is in or out of the playing pitch.
The technology used is open to abuse, as the referees are treating the VAR officials as infallible. Var needs binned.
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2 hours ago, deadasdillinger said:
Not Scottish fitba obviously, but on VAR, watching Tottenham v Chelsea. Currently 1-1. We've lost 3 goals (albeit one was then given over to a pen that was scored) and all for the most marginal things imaginable. A million other stoppages for red cards etc. Get it so far to f**k. Would be a brilliant game if sitting at 2-2, instead we've just had 12 minutes of injury time cos of all the faffing. Ruins it as a
I stopped watching at half time, as the game was stopped so much, especially around the half hour, that I lost interest.
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I agree Freeman may be better going out on loan in January, my original point was that yesterday he looked no worse, to me, than Grimshaw, who hasn't impressed this season.
A couple of the ICT players caught my attention yesterday, including Morgan Boyes, who, although he's seen as a central defender, looks like he has the skill to play in midfield (I'm really saying he looks like a midfielder playing in the wrong position). Thought that when I've watched him last season, for Livingston.
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I'll go against the grain here and say Freeman was no worse, and certainly more confident in getting forward, than I've seen from Grimshaw. Some of his crossing was very poor though. And Tillson wasn't terrible either, not as bad as some make out, but not as reliable and confident as Docherty.
Felt ICT had our number, leaving us to pass around until the halfway line, and staying compact: that coupled with a poor display from Moult (he's allowed one), and lethargic performances from a couple of others, meant we deserved no more than a draw.
Finally Kai Fotheringham is a promising prospect, but he needs to know when to part with the ball.
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5 hours ago, CityDave94 said:
Sandy Robertson, now that's a name from the past. Both ICT and United.
Went through lots of clubs, squandered his talent as he was a bit of a waster, his late dad didn't have half his ability but wasn't at the same level of denseness. He also played for United, very briefly, in the early 'eighties. Only appeared in a couple of games, without impressing.
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6 hours ago, Steven W said:
This would be a concern, but would still think we should have enough about us to get the three points.
Docherty has been excellent - can't fail to be anything other than impressed (although does seem a bit injury prone). Presumably he's not always been as good as this as his career would have taken a rather different trajectory to the one it's been on.
Spoke to a Thistle fan about Docherty, particularly regarding injuries. He seemed surprised what asked if their ex-player was injury prone, saying he rarely missed any games for them. Also, he suggested that he wasn't seen by some Thistle fans as the dependable midfielder that United supporters have witnessed to this point, stating that often a good few Firhill followers were on his back about his displays.
That's just football fans I suppose.
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14 minutes ago, skinny arab said:
Luton signed 2 keepers in the summer so I don’t think Walton has much of a future there, not sure how long he is under contract but if we get up and his wage demands are within our budget then we should definitely be making an effort to keep him. Was your cheeky offer meant to be 50k? There’s f**k all cheeky about 500k, which would be an unrealistic bid imo
I'd like to sound ITK and say 'I'd heard' but it's a simple 'I've read': he's out of contract at the end of this season. There's no way we're paying any transfer fee for a keeper, I've heard.
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Airdrie looked very different from the Tannadice game: correct me if you disagree. Put simply, they looked a footballing side at Tannadice, while tonight it was a battling performance they presented.
From the United perspective, as others have said, Sibbald carried the side to a win after Docherty's early departure (was it brought about by a naughty challenge?). I might have preferred Freeman coming on and moving Grimshaw to midfield, but have to say Tillson had his best game for United, which wouldn't be hard. Docherty has an influence over the team, to my mind, beyond his simple footballing ability, and without him on the pitch, some of the players didn't look as confident. I'll quote Gallagher as an example, who seemed to try to dive in to challenges, hoping to get in front of his player rather than cover his position tonight.
But what do I know? Just happy to get another win, although both goals came from Airdie errors.
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13 hours ago, Eednud said:
@Monkey Tennis and @Dundee Hibernian and anyone else interested. Don’t know why I didn’t dig this out before but these pages are from a 1985 book by Mike Watson “Rags to Riches” The Official History of Dundee United”. Hope they are legible.
ETA order is pic 2, pic 1, pic 4, pic 3
I've got the 1985 print of that book, and for some games and events from the later 'sixties on, it was, let's say, not aways accurate. Thanks for reminding me of Watson's work, he's not really someone I respect.
1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said:Fascinating stuff.
This "embarrassment" about the Irish roots of the club still strikes me as remarkable , given that in Glasgow, the same thing has been very much the USP for a club.
As said above, Baron Watson's slant on events may be less than precise. But he is a politician, after all.
He was unfortunate that Margaret Curran won Politician of the Year in 2004.
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4 hours ago, Hard Graft said:
Should have been a couple of goals up early doors, Yates in particular missed a golden chance. After that it was quite ominous and we fell out of the game.
We are too slow building up from the back, we give teams too much time to get back in position and seem reluctant to put in early crosses. We need to vary our play and move quicker.
Several players well off their game and some entirely unsuited to their positions - Berry and Aitken in particular.
We need to get back on track at Forfar next week.
Agree entirely with this, Aitken had a clear-cut chance as well and couldn't control. Yates and O'Reilly seem to have gone backwards, and as stated above, hesitancy from the defence playing the ball forward gives other teams an opportunity to regroup, or at times easily regain the ball due to sloppy play. Both goals lost came from failure to clear when there was plenty time to do so.
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3 hours ago, ScottyDee1893 said:
I'm 62 and can honestly say that I have never met a Dundee or United supporter that chose to support either club on the grounds of religion. I'm not saying that there may be isolated cases where it has been but I've never came across any personally. I've quite a lot of Catholic mates who are Dark Blue through and through and Protestant pals who are red hot Arabs.
I concur, to the extent that on occasions when I travel by bus to matches, I couldn't tell you the religion anyone on the bus.
Apart, that is, from Father O'Brien, Rabbi Cohen, Reverend Dunbar and the Mullah.
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I'm just thinking, William McIntosh missed a substantial open goal when his suggested name for Dundee Hibernian's 'makeover' was accepted.
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Forgot to add this above, as this is a 'photographic history'
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4 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:
Why did it represent a compromise though? To me, it doesn't sound much worse than Dundee City from a rival's point of view.
3 hours ago, Lurkst said:Maybe they felt "City" would then appear to be the premier club in the city of Dundee?
Although I'm thinking that was a tongue in cheek dig
(it's only temporary!), I reckon that is the reason, from my recall of reading the excellent “Across the Great Divide” by Jim Wilkie. It was updated in 2012, originally published in 1984. It’s subtitled ‘A Historyof Professional Football in Dundee’, and that original print is lost somewhere in my house.
Therefore stuff below is from my memory.
2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:Yes, I can only imagine that's the logic.
I still think it's a funny sort of objection though. "City" is pretty underused in Scotland.
The bit saying "They were willing to adopt any name so long as the word Hibs went out" is intriguing too.
Maybe I'm reading too much into the wording of the report, but it does sound like the club was desperate to drop the Irish association. I wonder why this was so strongly the case. Obviously, there was no such eagerness for the clubs with similar roots in Glasgow and Edinburgh.
Does anyone know any more on this? I'm particularly interested because my Dad, from a very Catholic Dundee family (his younger sister was a nun for Goodness' sake) was born in 1939 and is a Dundee fan, as were his pals.
I know that United were much the smaller club until probably around the 1970s, but I find the whole football dynamic in the city interesting.
Dundee Hibs looked to change their name to Dundee City Athletic Club, rather than 'Football Club'. And there had been a previous Dundee United, and another Dundee, neither with a connection to the present clubs, away back in the 1870s.
The Hibs board reps at the SFA meeting were tasked with removing 'Hibernian' from the name, simply due to the anti-Irish or anti-Catholic (delete as you might) sentiment following the formation of the Irish Free State in 1922.
Again, I recall from Jim Wilkie's book, he emphasised that Dundee Hibernian (nor Dundee) was never a sectarian club, rather one to represent the tens of thousands of Irish who had moved to the city, many to look for employment in the burgeoning jute industry. The first line up in 1909 had been composed of 6 Roman Catholics and 5 Protestants.
That’s not to say that a small minority of fans tried to stoke up religious tensions at times, but I’ll leave that there right now.
The meeting mentioned above, which took place during the season, followed many weeks of wrangling where the Dundee board steadfastly disagreed to a name change to City, and as the much more influential club, they refused to support the Tannadice side in their efforts to join the Scottish League: they had finished second bottom of League 2 in 1921-22, with the bottom two being cut out of the league system due to league reconstruction.
For one season the played in the Scottish Alliance League, before seeking re-election for season 1923-24 as Dundee City (Athletic). As mentioned above, Dundee didn’t want that name used, and refused to offer support to the re-election bid.
It was Dundee director, Willian McIntosh, that suggested Dundee United, and McIntosh and a partner, George Greig, saved the club from extinction 10 years later, in the ‘thirties. George Greig was a tobacconist in the city and helped the club financially once more a few years later, as a club director.
So there it is (as I recall): a Dundee director named the club 'Dundee United', and the DHFC representatives, desperate to avoid the stigma some potential customers may have attached to the Hibs name, were only to happy to accept the advised name, or call themselves City and remain as outcasts from the Scottish Leagues.
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A Photographic History Of Scottish Football
in Scottish Premiership General Chatter
Posted
For those lower class 'dees, the Brax Hotel was on Links Parade in Carnoustie: right across the road, I think, from the Carnoustie Golf Hotel & Spa, where I've of course stayed on numerous occasions.
The site is now open, that building having been demolished a while back (next door to the Caledonia GC clubhouse).