larry the lion

I've been thinking about the impact Nicky Devlin leaving has had, at first I didn't think it was too big a deal, but I'm wondering if there's now a disconnect between DM and the team due to not having a proper figure -head amongst the players that can help support the boss's aims and game plans. Also wondering if players are looking at end-of contracts and where we are in the league at this time. On the mental side of things; does the club have anyone that works on sports psychology and more on the player/ team mindset etc? Anderson provides a speed and technical threat, pretty darn good working the offside trap, and if he had someone with height and presence up beside him, we'd get goals I'm sure. Whether that's Guthrie or not, not sure, I'd be inclined to stick Joel as a deep lying forward, with instructions to feed balls to Brucie. I'd also like to see Penners and Joel linking more, as they have demonstrated this in the past. Joel gets a bit of stick recently, but he needs others to play off of, remember Snoddy getting dogs abuse at times? as it turns out he was fine, just needed other players to play with. DM needs to take care of the boys, as it looks to me like we have the potential, but are missing some inner drive, or winning mentality, and we need something to build that upon. Absolutely desperate for a win today, but it will be a tough one. 2-1 ( jinxed it now)

Thx Sarg, but the ostrich analogy was a LOT better; it actually related to my inner fears and concerns for Livi's off-pitch machinations, which are as tangible as the spoofers and wind-up merchants concerns I referred to previously. Moving a topic to a separate dedicated thread is different from totally ignoring a problem. Anyway, do you know about this topic, are you an interested party or just...well whatever that was...

Excuse me Gif-meister, I just asked for a different space where its not always the same topic. Referring to a 15year old post that is now part of a conglomerate of merged threads literally proves nothing, other than you are stuck in a loop If this is now the 'Livi; Behind the scenes' thread, rename it as such and create a different Livi chat where this topic doesn't dominate, and certain individuals don't keep banging on about it without a single solution being presented. I'd rather do something than just have a really bad acid trip that goes round and round.

No, multiple truths exist at the same time. Possibly all claims and counter claims could be considered legitimate. Livi had a case but it wasn't pulled together comprehensively enough for courts, and conversely, other stakeholders claim there was transparency when others claim not. You will likely get a completely impartial and unbiased summary of the topic from one of the posters here that are more invested now you've asked ... As usual its will be the fans and players that suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortunes... just wish the whole of scottish football was more structured and supportive from top to bottom, still a lot of unpleasant 'dog eat dog' mindsets out there..

Can an admin create a 'Livi Finances' or 'Livingston; Behind the scenes' (or similar) thread and move all the posts (and posters) around the politics somewhere else? There are deffo folks with an axe to grind and people with multiple accounts dominating with these topics. I'm sure it's relevant, but it's also killing off any chance of a bit of banter and sucking the energy out of the room. Also, has anyone heard of not hanging out dirty laundry in public, seems quite deliberate from some of the comments. If we're all Livi fans, the chat should be about what we can do to help the team and Management on and off the field, shouldn't it?

synthetic pitches. toxic comments.

there's something terribly indulgent and mildly unsettling about trying to unfreeze hundreds of tons of soil that has naturally frozen due to seasonal changes, burning huge amounts of energy and potentially contributing to climate damage, in an effort to facilitate already over-privileged and entitled humans in their tribalistic, ritualistic endeavours. It snowed. The game is off. End of story. We don't have the money for it, someone in the class has to be the poor one, don't be that bully. Unlike some lucky (Motherwell) fans I'll now have to find something else to fill my over-privileged and entitled weekend with. I'm sure I'll cope.

Profound? Not sure you'd let anything influence your opinions to the extent you'd find anything profound. I'm not whining, YOU ARE, that's why I made my first post; even once we get our lumps and everyone says 'ok lads, we've got to take our lumps', the mob comes along and says, "haha, you've had to take you lumps". Give over. I hope you enjoyed your hate figure for this evening, I thank you and good night !!

no, karma is essential. You are the fucking bitch, and that's my whole point. Coming on here and seeking to neutralise the off kilter sentiments directed at the real fans of livi is karma. Continuing to try and reason but not yeild is karma. You've just stood in a wee line with your mates and continued to hurl the abuse at the already damaged club that is livi. Where's the karma in that? Don't worry, I was only looking for the right to support my team and move forward with a clean slate and an equal footing. I guess in scotland that sort of thing take decades to undo, being the characters we are. Please stop saying i am here to get sympathy, I only posted because I was sick of the slagging, the livi fans will support each other now.

The problem is not getting punished for our owners failure to manage the club, most livi fans accept there should be a penalty, this is old ground. It's the offensive mean and distasteful comments on here that has me riled. I pity the next club that becomes inslovent, the precedent is set.

well, at least your agreed on something. Phew, anyone for 'hide the salami'

I've got to confess to not knowing about the jibing and sneering you mention at the top of the post. I've never treated other clubs in scotland with anything other than respect. Your trreating us livi fans that have the nerve to come on here with some tarred brush that you think represents ALL livi fans. But you are simply wrong. We'll take our lumps. Thats life. Your personal attack was weak, like your mind.

You couldn't fight your way out of a wet paper bag let alone take me to task. Thanks for the sentiments.

thanks. I want to make it clear it's not relegation that is winding me up. Most livi fans are very open in that they accept the conduct of the previous owners will have to cost us somehow. Relegation happened. Now everyone is being incredibly unpleasant and harsh to us on these boards (i can take it). I'm here to try and get some sense into the livi perspective on this, but when I get here it's just bloody awful comments and spiteful sentiments. Why shoulldn't I be pissed off. We finally get rid of our woes and have a strong trust driven community model in place and you all slag us off to f**k and hope we disintegrate completely. Sorry, it really is them against them now for me...

We as fans had zero control of the club and were at the mercy of several loose cannons. Now we are finally rid of them our fellow scots and football fans turn and say EXACTLY THE SAME SHIT OVER AND OVER AGAIN. The fans of livi have a lot to answer for, but you lot are last in the list. I'm not being self righteous, look at the awful posts leading up to my outburst. Penis. Do you think all livi fans will lie down for some reason?

Clearly you have an unbiased opinion on this as well. Shame you didn't get promoted on merit, too shit presumably. The fans who are left holding the shitty end of the stick are not the same people who 'did all those bad things to us mummy' boohoo. You seriously mixed up if you think I'm blaming anyone other than the chairmen of our fooball clubs who seem to be as unnacountable as the posts on these forums. I'll stick by my club, hopefully we'll get through this, and if things turn our way again it will be through honest endeavour, not sneaky playground bullying. No fear, no apologies, only lions pride. GIRUY Pele, right up.

Some of these posts are unbelievable! The way some of you are gloating is quite repulsive and perverse considering the overall state of Scottish football and the likelyhood of this repeating itself in the not too distant future. Your provincial, narrow minded, short visioned tripe spewing from your keyboards reminds me we, as livi fans, now have NOTHING to be ashamed of. NO-ONE to apologise to, no one to ask to be kind and not harsh. GIRUY. Why the harshest penalty possible, because only then did it secure promotion for two other clubs. Cynical? That word doesn't even cover it. One trouser leg up, get licking those frogs boys! What a scene today in the meeting eh? The Airdrie chairman chairing the meeting that will see his club get promoted, Black, red faced and passionate, rallying the old gaurd. What a conspiracy of wanks! The SFL that is bigger than the rest of us and been around 100 years pish is easy to spout when it suits you. 5 minutes ago they were hell spawn and utterly redundant in your opinions! Plus the members effectively said, NO to the SFL policy of allowing Livi to continue. "oh but mumsy wumsy, now livi will have an unfair advantage in the lower leagues and might just bounce back up!" FFS !! Admit it, you just don't like to see other teams succeed because you are tight, mean and cynical MTF. Pathetic, what a bunch of miserable misers (mostly). I hope the boot is on the other foot sometime, and oh boy, I don't think we'll have long to wait..... To those amongst you who have been gracious and supportive of us, I apologise for my tirade. Everyone else, ask yourselves how you would feel in our position and get a grip.

Sorry, I understand the frustration but this is like a witch hunt on LSD. I know there is a lot of passion and yes, livi have gotten themselves out of the hangmans noose again. Just that fact shouldn't upset you (and if it does and you just hoped for the destruction of one team to further your own, then this whole next bit about the technicalities is not aimed at you. You are too thick and biaised.) Lord Glennie said the appointment would allow the administrator "to keep the company running as a football club as best he can". That was what happened when we were appointed AN INTERIM MANAGER. McGruther is an Administrator by title, but has been an interim manager in practice. Lord Glennie also said it seemed appropriate to make the order "to achieve some stability with the management of the company in the medium term". Admin date is set at 18th Aug. Club is in a legally placed limbo status. Please stop believing everything you read in the press. SFL will not have reason to ask their membership to vote (unless they feel a change is needed anyway to try and avoid uncrupulous/mentally ill owners form singlehandedly destroying loyal fans clubs, i think there needs to be something) nor will they have any mandate to impose sanctions i.e. the club is now solvent(bond), able to fufill it's commitments and will not be in administration come the start of the season. The creditors will be no worse off then they would have been if the whole thing had goen tits up. (99% sure of the next bit) HMRC and the council will get all their money, so the people of the country will not be Fcuked over, tax and rent paid. The rest of the creditors (who just like in Dundee's sitation are mostly local livi fans) will get something out of the CVA, unless they don't agree to it. If they do accept, then frankly that is their business and no amount of ill will from other teams fans can change that. We will be fielding a much weakened squad and frankly may get relegated anyway. We have to find our level one way or another. That the two outspoken managers were from teams that stood to benefit from livi's demise, speaks volumes. They use innacurate and emotive language and seem not to understand the timelines or the actual facts involved. Giving players hope of avoiding relegation through the destruction of another team doesn't inspire confidence in the gaffer imo. Again, I'd like to say I can understand this from others perspective, but effectively Livi have met the stipulations all clubs agree to when they agree to join the league.

if after all the mismangement, in fighting, self destructive over stretching and frankly totally sh!t times we've had, if the worst thing to happen is some points (even quite a few) get deducted, I have no problem with that whatsoever. Over the last few weeks I have felt there would be nothing left of the club and we have all been pretty low, and crabbit. I know there is more to come, but honestly, the almondvale lions are a good bunch of loyal fans, we're down to the core now and it's as important to us as any of your clubs are to you. If nothing happens it will be down to a technicality. Obviously I hope that's the case as we'll need all the help we can get this coming season.

its official !! Goodbye black jacknapes, no more can you do to our club. It's just everyone else we've got to worry about now !!

yes, we (the fans) will be doing it.

we'll take our lumps mate, anything to move forward without all this grief...

I personally know creditors, I've not been glib with any comment. Well, maybe my first couple of posts. They might not support us, we don't EXPECT anything. Did you think I came on here for the first time ever to get lots of sympathy and hugs all round. PPfft, that would be naive. All we can hope is the local creditors recognise the fact that the entity in control of Livi, one way or another, will not be there steering us into dangerous waters. If we can't afford something in the future, it will simply have to be that way. If we drop division after division, it'll have to be that way. If Massone doesn't take the offer, we might liquidate, it will have to be that way.

wrong again. We are ready to start all over from the beginning if Massone does not take the money and run. We would be devastated for the creditors, mainly those creditors that are local bussinesses and individuals who are owed money if they got nothing as everyone at Livi wants to be as constructive as possible. Outside of HMRC all dept is owed to the community of Livi, if they want to help with a CVA, then it's because they want to encourage the team in the community. if selling the stadium at some point becomes and option (how the fcuk could it, we don't own it, sigh...) then we'll do whatever it takes. ? . One more personal comment and its open season.

We will do whatever we have to to redeem ourselves and clear our conscience. It's lunch time, time to eat more shit... p.s. yes the Trust (thank god we have one) has raised quite a lot of dosh in a short time 10k + I believe, fund raiser this weekend etc...bear in mind, we did not have a trust the last time we were in this much difficulty, the vehicle for community involvement was not there.