O'Kelly Isley III

For over two years the EU has had to become embroiled with one member state which has narrowly voted to leave but which seems to think it can dictate the terms of its departure to twenty seven other member states. And all the while they have been forced to negotiate with a weak, vacillating, stubborn Prime Minister and a procession of hapless Ministers charged with ensuring an orderly process. Arrogance, bravado and ignorance course thro British political life in equal measure. Now we have talk in the UK of martial law, the evacuation of the House of Windsor, medical and food shortages, and on and on. And you fire a cheap shot at Donald Tusk - they should be nominating him for a knighthood for his honesty.

And none more so than the Tories in the Labour Party.

Brilliant, but probably just recruited more brexiteers I see where you are coming from but I don't agree - it's high time these bams were challenged, they've had a completely free ride until now. Unfortunately it has taken Donald Tusk to have the cojones to speak the truth, in itself a tragic commentary on the state of UK politics and media. And he scored a direct hit concerning the rudderless Remain effort.

Donald Tusk pouring some petrol on the Brexit bonfire...... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47143135 Gaun yersel Wee Man !!

WHOAH !! That towel you just threw in nearly hit me......

If you think that the UK If you think that the UK military is democratically accountable to Parliament then you want to get a copy of 'The History Thieves' by Ian Cobain. And whilst I'm not at all convinced that Europe IS headed in this direction (another straight banana job), a collegiate decision-making process would maybe have avoided the carnage in Iraq, not to mention the death of Labour as a party of morality.

I agree with you, it's becoming rather repetitive. So let me ask you, hand on heart what is it that you seek from Brexit ? Freedom from whatever it is that haunts many British Nationalists about the EU, illusory or otherwise ? Or freedom for the UK to finally become Baldrick to America's Blackadder as we jointly intervene in sovereign economies and undertake illegal military adventures whilst arming despotic b*****ds to the hilt, as long as they are 'our' b*****ds ? I'm almost 63 and I've watched the UK descend into a grubby, greedy, grasping, immoral and corrupt little island. The EU has many, many faults, but it is my firm belief that retaining membership is the best option for the UK, Scotland and my grandaughters' future.

Like interpreting scripture, defining what exactly is meant by 'Leave' is beyond almost every UK politician and pundit so your suggestion that voters should have migrated to the Liberals is utterly fatuous. Meanwhile back in the real world, the only clear 'leaving' is being conducted by UK-based companies, head offices, jobs, EU nationals, etc., and absolutely all of it caused by internal divisions in the Tory Party.

You see, I have a problem with using the term tedious in connection with the word ‘advisory’, and I’ll tell you why. Unlike a ‘binding’ referendum, an advisory one allows people to think that they can take a punt, rebel, kick over the traces, whatever, because once the dust settles politicians will do what politicians do, and that will likely not involve taking the outcome totally at face value, unlike its binding counterpart. But don’t accept my word for it. A few weeks back my cousin and his mate came up here from Herts for a weekend of football and drink, and as the latter flowed chat turned to Brexit. Blow me if they didn’t both admit to voting Leave as an indulgent act of bravado, never thinking for a minute that their crosses would contribute to the biggest act of national economic self-harm in the modern age. And quelle surprise, they both now regret their actions, fuckwits that they are – and there are almost certainly hundreds of thousands like them. A keen observer like yourself must surely recall the body language of Johnson and Gove on 17th June 2016 when they both looked like they had shat themselves, and it was very runny. I’ll leave it there, other than to enquire about the line 'And then we will ask the British people whether they want to stay in on this basis, or leave' in your extract from the Conservative manifesto – so when exactly do we get to vote on that proposition?

Probably from Peterhead.

I can't help thinking that if only we had James Kelly as UK Labour leader rather than Corbyn, things might be just as bad but at least we'd get a laugh.

It's funny you mention London here...I think everyone will find that we've been here before with Brexit, thus:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passport_to_Pimlico

Can I remind you that the Leave vote was the outcome of an Advisory Referendum, and as such no MP is morally or legally bound to reflect the outcome of their constituency. Now it may be that many of them ARE paying close heed to the voting figures, but if I was an MP I'd also be considering what the result would be were the vote to be held again tomorrow, with all that we know now - June 2016 seems a long time ago. Above all I expect them to do what is best for the people of the UK, and if folk have a problem with that, then to quote someone, 'tough tittie'.

No I'm not... back in the thread a poster claimed that MP's would be reticent doing anything that upset the half of the electorate who voted Leave. I'm merely pointing out the inaccuracy in that assertion; it's exactly the sort of sloppy, imprecise 'statement of fact' that has characterised the last two years.

I never enter a battle of wits unless my opponent is armed, so I'll ignore the insult and let you explain to me how 17,410,742 equals 50% of 46,500,001. https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/find-information-by-subject/elections-and-referendums/past-elections-and-referendums/eu-referendum/electorate-and-count-information

Well, actually I can. Check out the percentage of the UK electorate who voted Leave and you will find it a lot less than 50 per cent. We also know much more now about the implications of that vote and it is very far from what was presented - is a conscientious MP not expected to apply rigour to the process ? Those who parrot Leave Means Leave fascinate me. It's like proposing to your girlfriend and finding two years later that she's a drug-addled streetwalker but we'll still go ahead with the wedding. Not if I can help it.

For the future of the UK that's an outcome that is well worth considering, and any MP who places their electoral hide above it doesn't deserve to be in Parliament.

Do you really think that when push comes to shove that other than the off-the-scale hardliners that any MP wants to be a handmaiden to utter mayhem ?

In my lifetime the BBC's political presenter/interviewers have gone from Robin Day to Fiona Bruce; if that's not a metaphor for the phrase 'dumbing down' then I really don't know what is. I lasted 30 seconds last night - just as Richard Burgon made an extremely valid point about the NHS likely being shafted (my word) by the US Corporations in the event of a No Deal, Bruce immediately cut him off as Tominey sat smirking like a 13-year old lassie. Bruce should stick to guessing the price of Elizabethan commodes on country house lawns.

As has already been asked, what is this fudged deal ? If the EU stands firm as I expect it will, then no amount of semantic embroidery will alter the core problem of the Irish backstop. And if the political journalist mentioned above does her homework she'll find that the EU has a very good record indeed of penalty shoot-outs with member states. The only surprise in all of this is that May and her advisers still seem to believe that the deal she negotiated can be altered.

Gina Miller is usually worth listening to, and had it not been for her and others we'd have had hee-haw Parliamentary oversight.

Shit, wrang again [emoji16][emoji16][emoji16]

A lot of posters seem convinced there will be the Second Coming of Dom Thomas. I wish I was as confident.

I have a hunch some of our loanees in recent years have had financial aspects underwitten by a sponsor or sponsors; it may be that we can't match what Killie are looking for in terms of cash for Thomas's services, and if there is no sponsor willing to assist then that may be that. And that would be hugely unfortunate, as midfield continues to be a massive problem area for us

'What Is The Point Of Labour' for this pish...