Shadwell Dog

And as I said we were only 3 points off second bottom when he took over and there was no playoff back then. I don't have a problem him saying that we would definitely stay up as a decent manager would've kept us up especially considering the fact that killie only picked up 11 points out of a possible 52 left that season. . You only need to look at what Uwe Rossler has done at Fleetwood since replacing Pressley to know how hopeless a manager he is. The fact he's holding out for a bigger club is utterly laughable.

Neither are in a job just now and neither have been at all successful at any other club they've been at which says it all. Appointing Pressley after he failed miserably to keep us up after the May debacle was one of the most ridiculous decisions ever made by the club. Beaten only by the ludicrous decision to give the managers job to May in the first place. Pressley when he took over was only 3 points off second bottom with about 13 games to go. He had every chance to keep us up.We as a club are still paying the price 7 years or so on.

St Johnstone have had a number of managerial changes over the past few seasons and their bod always seem to get the replacement right. Their managers almost always go on to bigger and better things .We on the other hand have appointed duffers like May, Pressley and Holt and that's why St Johnstone are pushing for top 4 and we're stuck in the championship. They have a bod that understands football. Hamilton also have a bod that know what their doing. They didnt flog off McCarthy and McCarthur to the first half decent bid that comes in the door and reaped the benefits of a big wad of cash for doing that. We have wasted our best chances of promotion by appointing the wrong people and now that we have someone with half a clue we're in a much tougher league situation to get out of. We've also flogged off our best young talent over the past few seasons for fees nowhere near what the likes of Hamilton were getting for players. In some cases the bod were basically biting teams hands off for the cash.Bod's need to get things right on a long term basis and not just a few years here or there.

Of course not mate. We're still paying the price of the bod's mismanagement of the club at the tail end of the Hughes era and the first few years post relegation. Appointing dreadful rookie managers scuppered what were our best chances of promotion then.

We're now what 7 years down here . Lets not forget also that we made a sizeable loss last season despite selling a number of players for some decent cash. If we want to have a secure financial future we need to get into the top flight and soon.

I did say it was on a good day . Nobody's argueing that Hamilton, ICT etc shouldn't be in the top flight . They're there on merit and quite rightly so. The discussion in my mind is why we aren't in the top flight when they are? And it again comes down to the fact that we havent been run properly on and off the park for a number of years. The question for our bod is how will they change that? I want to see us competing in the top flight on a regular basis and consideirng the fact that clubs like Hamilton and ICT can do it then why shouldnt I?

Exactly mate. Was different back in the brockville days when we had a broken down stadium and piss poor facilities. We're a different club now. Back in those days we weren't the 9th best supported club in Scotland either. At the moment we're not even a yoyo club as we've been stuck down here for what 6/7 seasons.

Airdrie average crowds under 1000, Morton 2000 on a good day, Raith 1500. We're a bigger club than any of them. Dunfermline and St Mirren have both been in the same boat as us. Bad decisions made off the field resulting in near disaster on it and in Dunfermlines case them nearly going bust. We have the support and infrastructure to be a long term Premier league side if we are run correctly on and off the field. AT the moment when you compare us to Hamilton, ICT, Partick etc we're underachieving in a big way. No reason why we shouldnt be able to exist in the top flight for the same longevity as Kilmarnock and Motherwell . Its up to the bod to get us in that position and keep us there. They should be looking at the likes of St Johnstone and thinking what are they doing right that we're doing wrong.

Yeah but St Johnstone are now going into their 9th straight season in the top flight. Kilmarnock havent been in the championship since the early 90's. The most we've managed is 5 seasons which is nowhere near good enough for a club our size.

I agree.Partick and Kilmarnock crowds tend to peak and trough . Motherwell have a smaller average than Kilmarnock but again their crowds tend to go up and down depending on success. The likes of ICT, St Johnstone,Ross County and Hamilton have continually poor crowds whether their successful or not. These 4 manage to stay up because unlike us they have bod's who know how to run a club properly.

Lets face it though no matter what league St Johnstone play in or how they are playing no ones really interested in fitba in perth. Same with Hamilton. People in hamilton tend to support the biggot bros no matter how well Hamilton are doing and ICT again are the same. Won the Scottich cup but were still only getting a couple of thousand every other week.

It would be the same for ourselves if we ever managed to actually stay in the top flight for more than 4 or 5 seasons. Clubs get stale and fans get bored. You need a good relegation/promotion battle now and again to get folk going.

Kilmarnock have suffered like a lot of clubs from the effects of long term midtable mediocrity. They've gone from an average home attendance of over 11,000 in 1999 to just over 5000 this year. Supporters tend to drift away when clubs are in that position with many only coming back when relegation threatens or they look like winning something.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/club-sold-park-hotel-24-3429341 The above was how I remembered it eventually panning out. And having Bowie paying it off is no different to the soft loans from directors we used to pay off some debt recently. In my mind as long as someone associated with the club is paying whats due (in that case a director)then thats far different from paying 1p or zero p to the pound in a cva, I mean if QOS make a loss who covers that? Surely the bod end up having to do it like any other club?

I don't think anyone Is saying lets go hell for leather in a carefree spend blitz to get into the premier. However, to win the league we need to be far more innovative in the way we spend our budget and preferably we're going to have to loosen the purse strings a wee bit too. Our recruitment needs to be a lot better for starters. Also why not look at ways of raising more funds for the playing budget. Normally fans are happy to pay a bit more if they know its been ring fenced for new players. Its something we've done successfully before in the back the bairns days.

Bowie took on 6.4 million of the debt and bought the hotel for 2.4 million. Moffat also cleared his debt which was over 800k. That was all then used to clear the near 10mill debt to the bank the club faced. I certainly don't recall them agreeing a pennies in the pound deal with the bank.

I dont loathe them. Their a club of similar size to us. Just they happen to have had the indian sign over us since 1957.

Doh. I meant £500 quid a week. Without breaking the budget I don't see another way of doing it to be honest. To actually win the championship when competing against sides with a bigger budget its got to be quality before quantity and if you do it right then you don't have to be worried about being knackered in the playoffs as you've already got promotion. Your main gamble is hoping that your quality players don't get injured during the season. I mean god knows where QOS would've ended up if Dobbie had got crocked at some point. Your only other option is hoping that your manager uncovers a couple of gems like Vaulks on the cheap but thats not easy.

I know what you mean but there comes a time when we're going to have to take a small punt on going up or fans will drift away and our budget will fall away accordingly anyway. Certainly first thing that has to be looked at is the wage structure. We'll always struggle if we have a very low maximum wage which restricts the quality of player we can bring in. I for one would far prefer paying a stephen dobbie/ stephen mcginn quality of player 2k a week than the likes of kidd/McCracken/Craigen/McHugh on £500 each. 5 or 6 quality players along with a smaller squad supported by the youngsters is what I would be looking at. Okay you may need a bit of luck on the injury front but if your going to compete to actually win the league then thats the way we have to go. If we can stretch the budget out a bit too then great aslong as its not putting the future of the club in jeopardy. And NewBornBairn Killie haven't shafted any creditors. Their no different to us. They had debt and they paid it all off. I cant understand why their being lumped in with the other cheats.

Kilmarnock have no debt so I dont see why your lumping them in with Dundee and livi.

The problem is getting Houston to play his strongest team. I'm still not set on craigen out wide either. He's still too slow for me to play out there.

Its a bit of a joke really for guys who go in the SS every other week who perhaps don't know a season ticket holder..

I understand what your saying but at the end of the day that's got hee haw to do with an all ticket playoff match.

It's a real shame that we're forced into charging kids entry into these games when we've been letting them in for nothing all season. At a time when we're trying to encourage youngsters to attend games it really is a poor show from the spfl.

They certainly looked pretty poor on the box today. Mind you whoever it could be we'll need to up our game from recent performances.