Bestsinceslicebread

I'm reading all this and seeing it from both sides but the junior side is really, worrying. I believe there are clubs who do not want to join the pyramid/seniors and wont say who I think as I have no proof but all this talk of all in etc... and the juniors winding up. Not a chance, the junior hierarchy have looked as if they have been power struggling for the past two years trying to get their foot in the door for jobs and under negotiations the way they want. it hasn't happened and we are at the stage we are at. All this talk of juniors joining ALL-IN, Really, Really, then all the West region juniors have to say to the west junior teams, is : APPLY RIGHT NOW TO THE LL AND YOU WILL GET IN, THE 63 LOT OF YOU but no there's negotiating this, negotiating that. Noticed someone said the Rooney said at the junior west meeting that the Scottish cup was SACROSANCT but that's only in junior minds. its just a cup ffs, and its nothing to do with the Senior/pyramid system and will only confuse things. Also clubs that are not junior and finish bottom of tier 6, where do they go as they don't want to be members of the junior association, so that would mean they stay where they are and not be relegated. It's too much hassle. The LL know they will have enough to start a new WOS and if its 2 divisions then ever better. I will add, after the PWG broke down and the LL starting one themselves the only reason they had the meeting recently with the West junior association is from pressure from the SFA to try and get the ALL-IN to happen. I cant see it other that that reason why the LL would entertain the junior hierarchy

Donald Dewar center is very similar to that of Huntershill where Rossvale used to play, The dressing rooms, (public) are located beside the park and the park if fences off by similar fencing to that of Huntershill. Excellent park right enough but so is Huntershill

no, it covers the park. Parks are not patrolled at night and things can happen to them, vandalism or anything else for that matter

Nope, for a fact I know a couple of teams cant or wont. As sodz law, as soon as they stop insurance, summit will happen

Right now, insurance for parks and players, think they will be two separate ground payments, they might own their park but is it fully paid up, not sure Above is not just for junior teams but also senior ones as well

For me, I have no qualms of any team if they decide to stay juniors or decide to join the pyramid. What I want is that the committees of each team get all the facts and information on all sides and put them to their fans in an objective manner. I read the Arthurlie statement and didn't comment but I just shook my head in disbelief. If you are on the committee of a junior team, infact any team, then you are duty bound to do the best for your team/club with all the information/facts at your disposal but that statement it reeks of the "saving the grade attitude". This is important times for Arthurlie and all other teams, so the right decisions have to be made. I wish Arthurlie well in whatever way they choose

pmsl, well its out there but with the negative people already posting I doubt any will now

That's your and his interpretation, cause both of you must have that high an IQ that you know how each team is doing individually, which trust me, you don't, so you don't really know how each team is doing individually so that's the reason for the post if there were any teams out there really struggling right now and needing help but hey, some people love to be negative and try their best to be negative to others in the hope of putting them down but don't really look to help in regard to adding something really positive to the post

Yeah I agree holmpark but every team/club is different, I just put the post up if there are teams in real danger right now. Some clubs will have problems but are better covered or organised if problems occur that's all. That's the thing, junior football has always been notorious for the community pitching in to help the club either in improvements or when problems occur. We all don't know how clubs operate unless we are involved so its good to get it out there if any teams need help right now to stay alive I think Black Pennel musta just had a shitty day with no brown sauce available and went on a rant there, not like him

Wit you want me to say about going back to the train, you were commenting on quite a few people and it started to come across as aggressive windup so anyone is going to feel the same way about you even later on when your comments are more reserved. And no I didn't go back to any posts, no need, I just remember them. Yes I know you never said it was me as I don't do that sort of thing, I'm more of taking a person to task without insulting and I don't see me saying windup merchant as you were basically saying you were bored and wanted something to do. If you have apologised for your earlier stuff then hopefully most whom you offended or annoyed have forgiven or forgot about it. I state I have played and been involved most of my time in junior football inregards to I have a view that is not about the junior, keeping the grade alive, hstory alive etc.... So it has nothing to do with you or even that you have ever played in the grade or not played in the grade and you and everyone else have every right to comments on this thread and the whole of Pie and Bovril. I am always calm, totally and try to be objective and break down my views so that people find it easy to understand the way that I see things as admittedly I sometimes force too much information on here which can be confusing even for me and I wrote it. I'm not going any more on this as its typical of the way things get distracted from the important points of the post whether intentionally or unintentionally. I've made my point and so have you

We all know the covid 19 has devastated all football and we know clubs at all levels will struggle the longer this goes on. Are there any junior clubs in real danger of being crippled or folding due to no revenue coming in etc.. If so then hopefully there will be people out there who can help if any local clubs that are struggling

As I said, you openly admit to what you want on this, boredom sitting on a train, that's why I have no interest in peoples like yourself, trying to put a twist on things, factually your posts tell the same story The sperate levels were created because there was a league, senior league with SFA members and then the juniors started because they were teams who were not members or did not want to be members and then after a few seasons of isolation and friendly games against each other, a junior league was started. Allegedly a lower level from the seniors, that's all it was. Its factual, clubs now are leaving different levels of football to join the senior / pyramid ranks because they are progressive and want to try their luck and see how far they can get. But I will add, some clubs are joining as they feel their have no choice because their neighbours are leaving. So I see your comment about no junior or senior is just, how can I put it, to get a reaction and personally I don't mind replying in the way I have to put it straight, well my view of it. And to be honest, no matter how you spin it, my view actually wont change I am of respect if a club does not want to join the pyramid system then don't. There are many junior clubs who do not want to join it for different reasons but many because they want to stay junior so you wont get everyone in the pyramid if they have their way, so personally I'm in agreement with them, I'd rather the Scottish junior association stay were they are and if any junior team wants to leave then they should do so and apply for the pyramid, over the years I will expect more junior teams to follow. I'm speaking from a junior background and I do not want the junior association joined to the pyramid in any way, shape or form. I can only see problems of this in the future if they do. The antics of certain members of the junior associations and chairmen of junior clubs on their online medium and also things said to chairmen and committee members at meetings including stating to them that the LL and SPFL are backing the juniors in option Z make me 100% with the same view that I don't want them anywhere ear the pyramid. The reason, My View, is that for the past few years nothing has happened with junior teams all joining the pyramid because the members of the junior association were all power struggling. The leagues EOS, SOS and LL all said the West region could join, but the junior association didn't want this because they wanted the East juniors in at the level the juniors wanted and thus were are still in the situation right now where the SFA walked away from the PWG and the LL.EOS and the SOS decided to start a new WOS by themselves. and with that being threated with league action from the junior association and they they wanted their own west region to go in separately instead pf the new WOS run by the LL, .EOS and SOS. As I said I'm junior through and through and I'm totally embarrassed at all these antics and that's the reason many have turned away from the authority of the junior association. Hey that's my take on your comments and my own views o the junior association power men

With Honestly United post made me think. How many cups in general do the clubs compete in The SOS league, The EOS league The Lowland League The Highland league and which ones interconnect ? Also regarding the south challenge cup do teams in the lowland participate in the South Challenge as well as the Main Scottish cup

Pmsl, no one ruffled my feathers I just know your not interested in an general debate on this thread, your just on to windup or try to distract the thread. Your for the juniors and don't really care about anything else. That's your prerogative and that's fine just be open about it. But to say there's no senior teams, honestly do you know how utter stupid that statement is. Any team joining the pyramid is joining the senior ranks and will no longer be at the level they were whether that was Amateur, Junior or Youth Club etc.. Its quite easy to look at posts on here with the stuff you've said to people to get a reaction. I've been on for years, well known and never make personal abuse' to anyone, my conclusion is that you re on a for a windup. There are people who come on here to debate, put their views across and others give their views of their points and the general discussion, some get out of hand and some take personal which is silly. We should always come out with an objective mind and the reasoning why we have came to our conclusion. You my friend have openly admitted that you were bored on a train and wanted reactions. I don't give personal abuses, I call it the way I see it. I've generally got no interest in what you have to say regarding this thread, seriously and if I'm like that with anyone on here then it means your not on here for the purpose of what others are on for. This is a great thread, very interesting and quite a lot of offshoots about different sections of the pyramid and the juniors and has been a great addition to P&B but guys like you who sit on trains to come on and windup ruin the thread in parts so on a personal level that's why I would have no time for guys like you.

You are really on here to shit stir, there's no two ways about it. You know exactly what is meant by what is said and so do most. As I said if people look at all your posts, they get the picture. I've played junior all my days, watched it and coached youths to play in the level and beyond and even I know the pyramid is beneficial to Scottish football. its the attitude of people and someone like you saying there's no senior teams, that statement alone makes it so true why there is a problem with the junior attitude. You have actually put people against junior way of thinking, seriously and your sitting behind a computer thinking your cool. if there was any hope of any junior committee people looking for more backup, guys like you have certainly destroyed it and put most against any junior representative being involved in the new WOS league

I've not been on for a few days but G4Mac your hitting the nail on the head dead center. What worries me is the attitude, if your a junior team and leaving to join the pyramid then ffs you are no longer a junior team, you are now becoming a senior team. Your illustrious history when junior is that you were a junior team and the history should be heralded but that's it. Also to add to this, would there be repercussions for Clydebank and Kilwinning if the West region juniors joined en-mass, I'm meaning with the involvement of Junior committee men, and not think both clubs would feel comfortable about that as they both are the leader sin leaving

I think the title should go to Benburb as the most used Home park in the top division

As I have followed this post for the past few years my views have changed considerably, not just due to this post be being at games, speaking with football people, fans etc.. and really Im thinking this isn't going to end well. We need to get rid of the save the junior attitude because of its 134 year history. If ANY team joins the pyramid then they are no longer a junior team or amateur team or youth team they are a senior team. Some of the posts on here in past two pages are so right, What happens to new teams in the west who wants to join the pyramid, do they have to join the West juniors first, (THIS IS WRONG). Junior cup, being retained and clubs can play in it keeping its history. Ffs, the south challenge cup is called that because its all teams in the south, if we get the north and north east sorted then make ONE NON LEAGUE SCO|TTISH JUNIO|R| CUP, end of story. If you keep the juniors and they connect with the pyramid you are always going to have this shitty junior attitude and I'm meaning like last Tuesdays meeting when someone shouted "f**k THE LOWLAND LEAGUE" and the attitudes of guys like Gordon Rooney about his views of junior football and senior football and to be honest this is what's is wrong and feel like this will not change with a lot of people. This is it, football, all levels of football are just that, fucking football, get a grip and stop messing things up. Also relegation in tier 6 where will Bonnyton go if they join the WOS and then get relegated will they be put into the junior league, trust me I'm sure that's not what they envisage or signing up for. Also when all said and done, I don't like the lower down junior clubs being forced to go over to the pyramid because the association all in is going, I'd rather the juniors just remained and kept any team who wanted to remain junior as I don't see a problem with that. If a junior team joins, let them join to become senior, if a junior team stays let them stay in the junior association. Junior football Being junior through and through I try to come in at this objectively but really see there's a divide that needs sorted as I'm not looking at this about one club, I'm looking at this as progression of football via the pyramid system. It genuinely is a worry

Agreed. just keep it the way it is, open for any team at any level to join the new WOS league, If its one division - great and if its more than one division then fantastic but all divisions should be at tier 6 and if more than one division then it should be a conference league for the first season. No junior team is forced over any team joins because they want too, obviously some will join as their neighbors have left but in reality it should be each clubs choice.

No it is not about that, not one of my posts are about protecting U19s football Its about youth football through the age groups and the effect on them if a U18s development league is set up I am all for development league, the U20s, been waiting on this crap with the juniors to get sorted and a new WOS staring that way an U20s development league in the west can hopefully be formed as I can only see this as a 100% improvement in developing football Your comment "These (sorry but) lower quality lads simply can’t make the jump to u20s from 17s. So they will simply give up. With 18s at least there is somewhere to try and continue, and in the pathway of a senior club." I get why you said that and agree with that but that's where your problem lies, to get lads to U18s development, most will play beside these lads who are not good enough so if you don't care about it then the lads who are good enough wont get the chance to reach development squads because they would have left earlier with the weaker players who are their pals.

First of all Gaz, im not saying your coming inblind, far from it. Im in agreement with most of what you say. Sometimes I hate putting stuff down incase other take offence when its not intended that way My experience is my own and I can only say from that but its involved in grassroots and too many higher up don't think of the effect, not saying you haven't thought of the effet by the way, im just fully immersed in it at this end but still get myself involved higher up because as a coach, everyone of us are always learning.. One thing we are in fully agreement with is what you have stated here "We used to see it at our community levels and we still do. A volunteer coach, someone's dad a lot of the time, gets the badges and runs the team from the early ages, moving with them to the end of their grassroots journey at times, right up to 19's. Now that's great, because we need people to run teams to get and keep boys playing and I've nothing but respect for the coaches who do that. I watch our young teams at times and as someone who has only ever coached from under 16's to First Team, it's a completely different skillset. I couldn't do what those guys do, so they are hugely important for engagement and participation. But one of the things we noticed was that the first time some really talented players were being asked to adapt to new coaching methods, or new expectations around logistics, or just new personalities was when they stepped from you football at under 19, where they'd had the same coaches and sometimes the same teammates for 10 years, into a first team. They hadn't developed the ability to adapt to new coaches, new methods or new groups of players and it put a false barrier in to their development that often was bigger than the technical or physical step up. They end up falling away because they're "not liking it", not because they're not good enough, because it's "different" and they've no ability to adapt to change." That's is a normal, the volunteer dad, no matter what level he has played at previous, amateur, junior senior etc.. is still a dad and volunteer so who says his coaching is good or bad but one thing we know, when a team moves from U13 to U14s they're are entering a new faster environment but also its not just the players, its the coaches so they need to develop not just the training but the mentality. We have coaches now coming down helping the younger coaches, we have coaches coming to older sessions and we ask that every so often that they go and watch first team sessions. We want a u19s experience coach to stay at that level, even at U17s and U21s and the same with the development squad and thus the reserve team, if one and the first team. We all need to bounce off each other. I'm in agreement with everything your saying but an U18s development league, if your part of the pathway is connecting with the younger teams then put a U17s coach in place who stays at U17s grassroots level so when each team reach's U17s they come under the guidance of the U17s coach and then when the team moves up to the U19s the same happens again the team and coaches come under the guidance of the experienced U19s coach, that's my view as I see it being less harm to the grassroots teams as in attitudes. You are always, I mean always going to have coaches who don't give a shite, (although they say they do) but they are more interested in winning than development. The team I took over at U19s were, to put it bluntly, fucking horrendous, the previous coach was all about him so I've set about helping the team and changing what needs to be changed, helping the academy with the other coaches to start bouncing off of each other and helping and having a connection and relationship that will continue to flourish. I think everything you have stated is great but if a little change in the structure of the grassroots section instead of the U18s teams, I believe there would be so much more beneficial to all involved. You get the just of my view, I'm sure you will take it in and I don't mind if your view doesn't change and I'm sure your kl if my view doesn't change, I'm coming in at it from the grassroots level and with your view I think its perfect except down at U18s but if the academy and first team that I work with if they have that at the top down then I think its a perfect fully functioning football team and academy including development team and grassroots

I know you didn't but was just making sure no one else thought I was similar views. I agree with it needs explored but remember the youths are our future, no getting away with it so we all must come together including these idiotic organizations and get it right or our football will continue to decline. I deal with the SYFA quite a few times and it in general is good but too much crap is involved that is a constant hinderance and harming youth football, some ideas 20 odd years ago might have been good then but not now. I am very experienced but not putting myself up on a pedestal here but im looking at the harming of the younger grassroots team, if there is a U18s development league and a U20 development league, it will harm U19s football which will always have lads who are not going to make a higher grade but when younger if these lads realise they wont make the grade they will probably leave football at U17s and guess what, pals in the team who may potentially make it will probably leave football with the pals and do other things. I will say, attitudes and environment growing up in different areas will be different but I'm a West lad living in Glasgow and I don't see the benefit of a U18s league, it might work for the east thought, but I see it as more harming of grassroots football. In order to get things right, you cannot listen to one man, including me, you have to bounce of most and take all the experiences and points and work out what's best. I'm not blinkered in any way and I believe I come at everything objectively and sometimes I'm coaching 5 nights a week, helping other coaches, younger ones and bring them on in their development, I enjoy it and being able to help lads reach a higher level of football, junior senior, part time or full time is all I want to do. I'm not saying U18s is a bad thing, I get it but I believe in the current climate it will harm grassroots football which ultimate will produce most of the lads who would reach development football teams. Right now, with teams folding in U17s/U19s and u21s there is a basic rule from the SYFA. Any team who signs a player after march 31st, said player is cup tied from any cup games. I know 7 teams out of 20 in the league where I reside will be in problem because of this. The youth association have bene notified but they haven't bothered their ass about this. They are actually stopping lads from playing football and also harming clubs that they cannot fulfill a fixture. So we all know how these organizations are harming and that is one of the basic rules that should be abolished

Please don't put me alongside these organisations, I dislike them, they are only interested in their self's and their own self preservation, it should be about development. Do you think the SERYFA would be receptive if a coach from a team in their league came and asked them for a change in rules as its a major problem, no I don't think so. these are guys who sit and make decisions abut usually don't coach so don't know the ins and outs and some do coach or run a team but are so blinkered at their more powerful job they don't bother doing anything to improve the situation. My views have got nothing to do with these groups , its from my own experience. Even being captain at Dalry when I was 26 I was coaching Pollok U21s and always been interested in pathways into junior and senior teams and have , like you and many we have noticed the change in climate in youth football and attitudes, most to detriment of youth football.

I'm not disputing that I'm more concerned about the effect of the grassroots teams younger down, you will want players from a normal U17 team as well and this will not go down well for the coaches of those teams and there is less lads playing football so you will pick the best to come up for development and thus it will have a knock on effect of the U17s and when that u17s come to U19s the late developers at youth level who do shine at U19s will find it harder. I'm not looking at this blindly, I have worked at 3 excellent academies recently and popped into pro youth sets up to see the ins and out so I've been about and with the ever declining youth football we need to work out the best ways to stop this and get more involved and I see a younger development at U18s being a hinderance than a help. Some teams might benefit from this but I believe there will also be an adverse effect on the local surrounding grassroots teams who can supply lads eventually who are good enough to be developed further. I have worked in academies with some great coaches BUT they have been at the same academy so they only know what they have witnessed and experience when other academies have different problems and again when I've been to a different academy I see a lot of great/excellent things but also problems of a different kind to what a different academy have had. At the academy where I work at the moment we have already introduced these ideas to stretch the lads. Our U19s team recently got a U17s lad released to come and play for us in a trial match against a top quality grassroots team in the league and then his U17s club resigned him again. We have coaches coming to older sessions to watch how they operate and we have lads moving up to older training sessions, all this implemented but it doesn't change my view on a U18s development league, I do not see it as a benefit in the general sense, not being specific to one team and a couple of teams might do well out of it but the overall picture, a definitely no. To add to this, let another U20s development league start in the West as I believe the standard will become so go that both the east and West development will shine and become a beacon of development as the standard is so high, thus more younger lads will wan to stay in football at their local team in the hope of being used for the development league. Once and if the climate change with more lads involve din football then Id look into an U18s but id rather get the while thing sorted first with the U19s Also Gaz I'm in agreement mostly with this "We have a number of players playing 20's who are still young enough for 19's and a great number of players in the 19's good enough for 20's, plenty between both groups good enough and already having played in our first team this season. We've decided that, given our experience, running 19's and 20's at the same time isn't the best model for the development of the players, that 17's and 20's would be a better balance with it being more beneficial for a 17's player to step up to the 20's to be "stretched" as required for their development." But two things regarding this, is that its my main point, taking younger lad from a younger team but that younger team will be affected in their games if the best is away but if its an U18s team it will be worse. I want to see the U20s team able to take a U17s player into their fold for experience as well, that should be able to be performed without an U18s league, so consultation need sot be with the SYFA and SFA to not have clubs and players threatened and development teams should be able, easily to play younger players from grassroots its the same all over. if you coach at a grassroots team, do you go and watch the first team and development teams play and train if your a development squad coach do you go and watch the first team and also visit the grassroots younger teams to watch train and play If your a coach of a first team do you go and watch the development teams and also then the grassroots teams. Nearly all will say they do but in reality, they don't, they only know what they know from their experience so if they are honest with themselves and if they don't do that then how can they come up with ideas on how to improve football out with their own level that's why we should take consultation on all the levels at different age groups as that's why we should all bonce off each other because it can only improve youth football. ( and that is not aiming at anyone in particular its just general analysis for us all to look at ourselves and think of the best ways to help improve our youth football) Last year our U19s team, (all in their first year at 17) played against pro youth teams, Airdrie, Patrick Thistle, Clyde, Motherwell and Celtic first team ladies to give them an experience of a higher level, we had 4 lads sign duel contracts with the first team and this had a big effect on the younger academy players. This has nothing to do with an U18s development league but improvement and development does happen you just have to find the right fit.

Before we go any further I just want to say I seriously dislike the SYFA, I think its a job for the boys, looking after each other and the rules they have implemented are very wrong, are archaic and are harming Scottish Youth Football but we as coaches see the problems but they are not interested in what we have to say. To be honest as a successful grassroots coach previously winning leagues and supplying lads to either junior or senior ranks I would say that's a define NO to U18s - 100% NO The process that a lot of teams have now, mainly grassroots and academies is that teams go up through the ages and then hopefully once they get to U19s they should be at the stage where the first team should be taking notice, Right now I know for a fact of some development teams at U20s are having problems with the requisite of taking U17 players from a grassroots team A lot of development teams don't have a full squad and take players from the younger age which some managers don't like. Obviously the first team can supply a couple of older players to bring the lads one while getting the older players match fit. We as a nation do not have enough players playing football anymore, especially at youth level so if putting an U18s league you are putting more of a strain on grassroots youth taking boys away from teams, teams not performing and then folding as boys that make an U120 development team are usually coming from an U19s grassroots team but if there is a strain on the level before we wont have these teams operating, its a catch 22. In my experience of playing football and coaching I am fully 100% behind the pyramid and the development league but 100% against an U18s development league p.s I hope what I've written here is conveyed the same way it is meant but I get a feeling it wont be and that's my bad