Howlin' Wilf

The full article is HERE

A friend of mine was in Lloret de Mar in 1973 and along with the guys he was with, were probably the only Sons supporters to witness Dumbarton winning their solitary European trophy.

The tax bill thing is a mystery. Wilson stated at one of the meetings that owning the stadium would land DFC with a 'capital gains tax bill'. As DFC is a limited company it isn't liable for capital gains tax. It is however liable for corporation tax. If my understanding is correct though, that would only be payable on realising an asset, not owning it....

"They will also own the new site, even though in an ideal world they would gift it to the Sons. But that would saddle the Sons with a tax bill they can’t afford and instead Brabco are likely to hand them a lease for over 100 years" The plan all along as I have stated before.

I recall the Aberdeen and Scotland keeper Bobby Clark actually started out as a centre forward for Queens Park. This was a case of poacher turned goalkeeper.

It is an arresting discussion though.

I know something of the time, effort and expertise that you're putting in on the supporters' behalf and we should be and indeed are, very grateful for that. When it appeared that the Rock site was valuable as a site for housing, then the potential move made greater sense. The way I saw it then was that an owner would, sooner or later, realise that value. With the current site being worth little, one has then to look at alternatives. I can see no sense in spending £13.5 million* on a stadium for a club like ours, especially not when a small fraction of that money would pull the current stadium up to spec again. Part of the problem is so basic in that the stand could do with a good clean! My suggestion above would see the community benefit, Brabco make more on their investment and the Rock Stadium brought up to spec, perhaps even to include improved function or conference facilities; perhaps also to increase capacity. Surely a win-win? (* around 20 years of our entire current turnover)

A painfully honest interview. Good luck to him; he was working as a pundit yesterday on Radio Scotland and did well.

McDonald wasn't prepared to pay anything. Brabco met Rankine's price.

I don't think so. Rankine advertised the club for sale for 8 years (The Times, The Herald) and had no takers. This was in considerably better economic times than now.

The land at the Rock is worth a fraction of what Brabco thought when they 'invested' their money. The viability of it, as a cleared site for housing, is substantially reduced because of land contamination. Therefore the plan for them to profit from their 'investment' fell and another plan is being put forward. This includes (inhales through gritted teeth) a £13.5 million stadium. The stadium part of the plan, we are told, is supported by the proposed 'enabling' housing development. Allied are apparently prepared to sell the land at a substantially reduced rate presumably because without a stadium, it is unlikely that planning consent would be given for green belt land. Brabco presumably see the return on their investment being the price of the land they achieve for the housing, minus the cost of the stadium. I've had a thought on this and whilst there may be many reasons that the following couldn't happen, there are also many reasons (discussed ad nauseum) why the current plan may not proceed. Dumbarton FC need training facilities. Presumably the three secondary schools in Dumbarton and the Vale would benefit by the provision of additional 4g facilities? Perhaps these facilities could be provided at Dalmoak and built for a price somewhat shy of £13.5 million? As a ball park figure, let's say that a couple of 4g pitches, lights, some changing rooms, parking and associated ancillary infrastructure would cost £4m. The ownership of this might be Brabco or they might have some partnership with the council. The current stadium could therefore remain and be upgraded if Brabco were to commit to an upgrade of the current facility from the proceeds of the plan. Due to the increased margin between cost and delivery, Allied might be offered more to swing their agreement to the new plan. Then again, what do I know?

That explains the 343 and 562 crowds against Alloa and Livi respectively in 2013/14. It's a non-scientific comparison.

Cheers - I'd have been looking for that. I'll get it from you somehow somewhere. PS You are some squeezeboxer squeezeboxson.

Some comments about dwindling crowds at CID but looking at the 13 home league games this season, our published average is 1126*. In 2015/16 with Rangers and Hibs visiting after 13 home games it was 1107. In 2014/15 with Rangers Hibs and Hearts visiting it was 1065 after 13. In 2013/14 with Dundee as the biggest club in the league it was 893 after 13. *One slight cheat is that there was no published crowd this season for the home game v Falkirk on 17th Sept so the average here is actually from 12 games.

Sorry Simon. Me at the proof reading again

If the first plan was ambitious then I'd take some convincing that the current one isn't foolhardy. Apologies for replying to myself!

The main danger for the club I felt was that it seemed the land value at the Rock was much higher than the value of the club as a going concern. At one time a land value of 11 million was being spoken about in some quarters. It would seem that there has been a reality check in that the land is contaminated and as such would require expensive remediation for it to be used for house building. That is I believe why the 2014/15 plan was revised so that the return on Brabco's investment was to come almost entirely from Dalmoak with the land value at the Rock being a fraction of that initially envisaged.

There is a problem with that Plan B. If the problem with extending the stadium at its current location is that there is no room for additional parking, how would developing the current car park for housing be allowed? I don't think it would. Also the land there needs too much remediation. That might be the ultimate safeguard should Dalmoak fail to materialise.

I'd have thought that Morton would be waiting to see where they end up. I mean Thomson isn't bad but he's not Premiership standard.

I think the home club has to consult with the away club about how many fans the away club expects to travel. If the away club estimates more than 900 I think DFC are pretty much obliged to make it all ticket. That was the story I heard for the home league cup tie v Dundee Utd a few years ago.

Or indeed the moothie.....

I met Ian Durrant when Rangers brought their under 20s for Britso's testimonial. He was very amiable and made a real effort to join in with the occasion signing autographs for young supporters etc. He announced to everyone that his Rangers debut had been at 'The Old Bogheid' and that he never forgot the experience. He was very co-operative in getting stuff signed for auctions. All this gives no indication at all of his ability as a coach however he seemed a real football man.

Why? You know I'd get yer tickets!

Nothing's happening here so here's a great misty pic of the toon taken by Sons fan Kenny McKenzie.