[Stay Classy Sinn Fein]

They should look across the water. Wales is Brexit as f**k.
With my serious head on that is a very insecure identity you have if other people expressing theirs is that much of a threat (applies to all sides)

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/sinn-f%C3%A9in-has-never-wanted-an-irish-language-act-1.3144266

[Stay Classy Sinn Fein]

Let's see, monarchist, loyalist, British nationalist, unionist, protestant supremacist, bigot and rangers fan.
 
I think my generalisations are bang on the money Wes.  You couldn't be more of a stereotype.

I suppose 2/7 ain’t bad Pep, at least you’re showing some signs of improvement![emoji6]

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

No.
Sink a few bottles, howl at the moon, commit some pretty acts of vanadalism (probably) then start campaigning for the next one.

I suppose that’s more honourable than throwing a hissy fit and threatening to emigrate.

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

Yes.

You don’t imagine that might create even more chaos and instability than we are currently experiencing!!? Not just now thanks, you’ll get another turn. And IF Scotland again decides to stay put, what’s your next move Willie?

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

It’s not a difficult position. It’s a non existent position. The UK, led by your BritNat party, is leaving the EU. You think this will be calamitous, but you want Scotland to sink with it, because the UK union must survive no matter its fuckups as a unitary state.
You have thrown in your lot with the separatists actively negotiating separation (badly), because you have what plenty here see as a craven servility to the UK plc. Even when it’s reducing Scotland to carrion, you’d rather espouse a nonexistent position than dream of actually considering Scotland achieving sovereignty.

It is indeed a calamitous mess, the Union will survive however and Scotland will retain its existing place as part of a sovereign nation until it decides to go it alone. Now isn’t the time to start digging at the foundations whilst others are trying to put the roof back on.

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

BiB, so you’re a Brexiteer, because that’s the price of unionism. That’s all that’s been pointed out to you. The fact that you admit you’re willing for Scotland to endure a “complete f**k up” purely to satisfy your UK fetishism is what makes you craven, I suspect.

Hmm, slight twist on things there. The EU Ref is indeed a ‘f**k up’ for the whole Union (not just Scotland) there are millions who still think differently unfortunately.
Does it make sense to break up the UK in response to that? No I don’t think that it does. I think that’s a fairly reasonable standpoint. I’ve said countless times that it’s a difficult position for Pro EU Unionists across the UK, but the answer isn’t to simply throw in the towel with the separatists eagerly waiting in the wings to feast on the carrion.
Craven or cowardly doesn’t come in to it. This isn’t over by a long chalk, there is a way back and still time for the tide to turn.

[Stay Classy Sinn Fein]

As opposed to Ian paisley shouting no surrender last week.  Didn't see you comment about that.  Probably cracked a stauner.

I’m completely opposed to Paisley’s position on the EU (you know that), I’ve haven’t claimed to hold favour with the DUP either.
I’m afraid your readily prepared generalisations don’t always hit the mark Pep.
If you think Paisley’s rants hold the same sway as the words of the New President of SF, you’re miles off. Try again.

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

I think you and NTP really need to look up the definition of the word craven.  Saying things like long may they reign over us, as you did about the royal family, and being delighted for Scotland's democratic wishes to be completely ignored, as you always are, is also craven. My words are not.
 
Subservience to unelected billionaires is something you celebrate, and moves to defy the democratic will of the country you live in you support.  That's craven Wes. You're craven.

“The Long May they Reign” was clearly said tongue in cheek. I think I said at the time that the Royals don’t ‘reign’ over any of us in our day to day lives and also that the civil list should be abolished for the dependents of a ceremonial figurehead.
The Ref was a completely democratic decision. Your continual tearful ranting won’t change that. You’ll simply have to wait for a 2nd vote, which looks increasingly likely. Again, if that goes the way of independence I’ll live with it. I don’t see what can be deemed as Craven on either view.
The EU Ref was a complete f*ck up and yes I’m at a loss as to how things will work out from here.

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

It labels you a fantasist. You’re professing to espouse a nonexistent position, whilst supporting a party that volubly denies that position. In your continued and unalloyed support of UK unionism, you’ve turned your back on European unionism. The two are mutually exclusive positions. In the wake of the EU referendum, you can only support one or the other, because the two are pulling in diametrically opposed directions.
Once again, Rob: unionism means Brexit. Has that sunk in yet?
 
ETA: where did willie label you a “coward”?

He didn’t, I was referring to the general use of the word ‘Craven’ on here.

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

Robs so craven it's comical

 

It isn’t me that plans to do a runner if things don’t go my way Pep.

You seem to have your escape route already mapped out. This is something you claim to ‘hold dear’, apparently not. What utter shite!! And you have the front to mouth insults such as craven, when you yourself exemplify the definition. Jeez.[emoji849]

 

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

The cognitive dissonance on display here is alarming. 
I voted to have ice cream and a piping hot cup of tea in the same mug and i'll do so again, no surrender to thermodynamics, WATP etc. 

I can’t disagree with that, I said a few pages up, that between a rock and a hard place is indeed an uncomfortable spot to roll out the picnic rug and basket at present (in relation to British Unionism and European Brexit).
I’m neither ignoring or turning a blind eye to the situation, how that labels me a coward (and hundreds of thousands of other Scots), Im really unsure.

[Stay Classy Sinn Fein]

Mary Lou McDonald certainly off to a flyer ending her maiden speech as the new presidential face of Sinn Fein! “Up the Rebels, Our Day Will Come”!
At least she’s trying a different tack eh!?[emoji47]

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

Ah, so it hasn’t sunk in. That’s not an option (difficult or otherwise). There is no way of supporting both unions. Your party has made very clear that Brexit is happening no matter what, because the voters of England and Wales have demanded it.
Unionism means Brexit.
If you espouse the first, you support the second. Thus, I’m afraid, you’ve thrown in your lot with the “subversives”. Presumably supporting challenging a system of governmental institution (or subversion, as you term it), is a price worth paying to deny Scotland sovereign statehood. 

Neatly boxed, and I’m sure that makes sense to you, but it seems as though that argument will continue to go round in circles. Millions of us voted to remain within the United Kingdom and in the European Union irrespective of party political persuasion.
That 52% Voted to leave the EU across the UK,would force the hand of the government whoever was in power. Perhaps they should have just ignored the majority.
In hindsight it might have been useful to have our own vote on the EU, the same being offered to NI, Eng & Wales, unfortunately it wasn’t an option at the time.
That the UK voted to leave the EU was a huge surprise for most observers and commentators not least a shock for the general public too, on both sides of the divide.

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

And so as a UK nationalist, you’re “subversive” for supporting a state that is seeking to challenge an established form of government and institutional power: the EU.
Surely it’s sunk in that unionism means Brexit by now.

Think we covered that one a couple of pages back up the thread. Supportive of the Union both in the UK & Europe. Yes it’s a difficult position to take up given how things are unfolding.

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

What I'm suggesting is that it's not subversive to fight to uphold the constitution of your country. So long as you do so legally of course.

Giuseppe’s own brother Giovanni described themselves as;

‘if anything we were subversives who made nuisances of ourselves’ according to wkp?

I’m sure Pep can give us the full score, and what Impastato himself might have thought on the whole Brexit matter, just to keep the thread on track?[emoji6]

 

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

It's debatable I admit, but fighting nonviolently against a State and criminal organisation that were conspiring illegally against the rules of that country's constitution, and doing so within the law would not be considered subversive in most civilised countries, including Italy.

Subversive; challenging or attempting to subvert an established form of government or institutional power? It doesn’t necessarily attract a critical or insulting label/definition if that’s what you mean?

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

Not butting in but I think that calling Peppino a subversive is inaccurate unless you consider a conspiracy of the State and the Mafia to be legitimate. More like satirist and campaigner.
http://www.centroimpastato.com/giuseppe-impastato-his-actions-his-murder-the-investigation-and-the-cover-up/# 

I didn’t say that the Mafia’s influence was legitimate WB, but surely it was part of the ‘establishment’ at the time, however corrupt? Even a humble Sicilian Sommelier might concur?

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

Forgive me Wes I've had a long day what is NTP

NTP, Not The Pars, perhaps offering back your favourite insult. Think he nailed it tbh.
I won’t hold it against you though Pep, we’re miles apart on here, but I reckon you’re alright.
May I politely ask though why you changed your user name from Fuzzy Afro to an Italian Political subversive?

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

Must be thinking of someone else Wes.  Scotland will get what it will deserve if we vote no again and I want no part of that as Scotland is very dear to me.

So NTP was spot on then?

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

Well I can live with your opprobrium big man, much as it pains me.

I can’t be arsed trawling back through your post history Pep, but I’m pretty sure you (and others tbf) had some ‘choice’ words to describe those who threatened to leave these shores if Scotland had voted Yes. That you would walk away and abandon your whole life in Scotland if the result was repeated, speaks volumes doesn’t it.

I personally wouldn’t label you a snivelling hypocrite, but some might?

 

Chin Chin old boy!

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

Lol.  No answer.  We all know what you are Wes.  Craven to the bone.

I said at the time on here that a vote for Brexit would only provide further ammunition and leverage to the Separatist movement in Scotland and the Republican agenda in Northern Ireland. Think that’s proved to be correct. If indeed this signifies the final break up of the Union in addition to leaving the EU, the leave vote will have only themselves to blame (if they do actually care). If the majority of Scots vote for Independence on a second Ref, then so be it, same goes for any future vote on a United Ireland, which I can’t see btw, but there you go.
Do I have an answer as to how to get out of this mess, other than retracting article 50? No, but from a Unionist standpoint, it seems I’m not alone between a rock and a hard place.

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

Lead the UK not leave it.  Yeah that's worked out well.
 
You'll notice Wes has gone very quiet.

Just enjoying the afternoon sun with a cold beer and spot of Bartok thanks Pep. It’s mildly entertaining but not particularly edifying to follow and reply to your every rant and ramble on here, sorry pal.

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

We can make the best case ever.  Still won't mean fk all if England says no (which it already has effectively).  Just the way craven shitehawks like you like it.
 
England will decide what happens to Scotland according to what it believes to be in England's best interests.  Just the way craven shitehawks like you like it.
 
I'm sorry if I don't share your faith in the wisdom of a country that voted for brexit and votes Tory three quarters of the time.
 
What would you propose Wes if n Ireland is allowed to stay in the CU bit Scotland not?  What do we do then?

Think it’s all or nothing my wee pal. Like I said, hopefully the longer this stretches out the greater chance of the whole thing collapsing. We head back to the table and start working on re-engaging.

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

Scotland can't demand anything Wes, just the way you like it.  We'll get what England decides is best for England.

If NI retained a border with the EU, reckon we could make a reasonable case too Pep. Once this absolute farce reaches an incredibly noisy crescendo down south, (yes, even MORE chaotic than it appears now) perhaps the tables will turn! Hopeful maybe, but there’s still time imo. I have faith in our fair & right minded English brothers and sisters.

Locking ourselves away in the scullery with the lights off makes no sense at all.

 

 

 

 

 

[Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.]

An united Ireland would be great.

Mostly cause it would wipe the shite stain of NI off the map.

Oooft, can almost taste the bitter hatred in that post, not very ‘Scottish’ at all eh Pal!?

FWIW, I’d be happy for Norn Iron to stay in the CU and for Scotland to demand that we follow. The whole idea of Brexit might then collapse altogether and put an end to this whole fuckin mess.