Che Dail
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Posts posted by Che Dail
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On 21/11/2022 at 19:10, Hampden Diehard said:
Footballers wearing armbands for any cause, irrespective of how worthy - in the bin.
Yep.
They (and pundits) could protest on the next holiday or when visiting properties they own in countries where they oppose the law such as Dubai / Abu Dhabi, Maldives and Barbados. Or they could just avoid going to these places, and any pontificating hypocrites should go in the bin.
Homosexuality is illegal in 35 of the 56 [British] Commonwealth of Nations, 2 of which are at the World Cup: Cameroon and Ghana. It is also illegal in other countries playing in Qatar such as Morocco, Iran, Tunisia, Saudi Arabia & Senegal.
For over a hundred years UK Inc. has accrued significant vested interest and influence in each of them, but seems to have exerted little meaningful influence on this topic for some reason until now at the football World Cup.
I suspect Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Leicester City and Man City will not be making protests at their training camps, during friendly fixtures, or whilst out and about in the UAE where they are based just now.
Change requires people to take action and do something – anyone can read off a script.
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Ben Doak, from Celtic B to Liverpool first team. Good chance he'll feature for Scotland, at some point.
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47 minutes ago, cowdenbeath said:
I'll just wait for the Scottish ones in our non leagues, less travelling
Should be on the telly
Like watching Real Madrid giving Celtic a hiding tonight - 8 out of their starting 11 are ex B-Team players. No travelling needed to see a world of football away from Scotland.
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6 hours ago, cowdenbeath said:
I look forward to the LL, WOS and EOS in a few years to see lots of ex B team players.
You can see lots of ex B team players in Qatar.
There's a few in the Spain, Germany and Netherlands squads... plus Lewandowski, Messi, Ronaldo, Silva, Benzema, Mbappe, Mane and more.
Is a pity Haaland won't be there, another B-Teams graduate.
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4 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said:
Let us know how you get on. Have you got a QC? I know a couple of cheap, totally discredited ones who'd help for the price of a drink.
If they're still referring to themselves as 'QC' they're at the wrong bar.
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Did AZ Alkmaar send their 'B' team to Tannadice?
What an embarrassment.
Without Rangers and Celtic, our top league is on a par with the League of Ireland. And folk are furious about B-Teams at Tier 5, calling it tinpot, as if the Lowland League is the problem, citing 'sporting integrity'.
7-0 is a shambles.
Some stats from tonight:
MoM Pavlidis (2 goals +2 assists) - played 32 times for Dortmund B
Reijnders (2 goals) - played 92 times for Jong Ajax
de Wit (1 goals) - played 56 times for Jong Ajax
Evjen (1 goal + 1 assist) - played 56 times for Jong Ajax
van Brederode (age 19) - CF played 12 times for Jong Ajax
NOT TIN-POT.
Mon the Lowland League
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10 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:
La Liga, Ligue 1, Bundesliga and Eredivisie are not tinpot
Primera Federación, Championnat National, Regionalliga and Eerste Divisie are
Happy to helpNo, they really aren't - the quality standard in these leagues is enhanced by additional clubs that can sustain full-time professional football players: a best v best environment.
What is 'tinpot' is the fact that Scottish football is beholden to a backwards conservative majority resistant to change.
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9 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:2 hours ago, Che Dail said:Right, so Spanish, French, German and Dutch football is 'tinpot' aye?
That aspect of it, absolutely. You can definitely add Italy to that list who have a number of tinpot aspects to their game outwith and including Juventus U23s.
Strange... So you're now saying Italy - European champions - their league is 'tinpot'?
In the name of 'integrity' all these other nations and top clubs and managers have got it wrong.
Meanwhile, Motherwell got put out of Europe by Sligo Rovers.
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11 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:
Chucking away integrity to f**k your pyramid and benefit those who are already at an advantage is what's tinpot, be it in Spain, Armenia or Scotland.Right, so Spanish, French, German and Dutch football is 'tinpot' aye?
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On 05/08/2022 at 12:46, Gordon EF said:
Every league with B teams who cannot be promoted, cannot be relegated, and who're removed from the league table at the end of the season (whilst the points gained or lost against them by other clubs are not) is tinpot. Makes no difference whether the standard is high, low, or mediocre or whether the league is in Portugal, Scotland, or Outer Mongolia.
You’re failing to recognize the key point, which is that B teams exist in top leagues across Europe alongside other professional clubs, and in several instances at T2 and T3 – It is normal.
The same would have happened in Scotland but for narrow minded ‘tin-pottery’ demonstrated by the same bloc of mediocrity that thwarted relegation from L2 (and promotion via the pyramid) for decades.
Inevitably, Lowland League clubs will continue to help perennial strugglers find their natural level in the game – which would be hastened if more promotion / relegation places become available.... probably unlikely without a complete overhaul of the league structure.
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1 hour ago, Blue Brazil Forever said:
Let me make it even simpler for you.
In which other Scottish League can three teams not be promoted or relegated.
In which other league can three of the teams not be eligible to participate in cups/ trophies.
The 'tin-pot' leagues in Portugal, Spain, France, Austria, Netherlands, Germany, Czech Republic, Poland, Slovakia, Croatia and Finland all restrict promotion for B Teams and have limitations on cup participation.
But they're typically found at Tier 2 or 3 (sometimes T4) in their respective professional leagues.
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Suggestion from last year that the professional clubs could breakaway:
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/john-nelms-spfl-shake-up-24203006
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5 hours ago, razamanaz said:
So Gala Fairydean Rovers had 2 votes as said because their chairman has the casting vote
Are you certain about this..?
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23 hours ago, Gordon EF said:
Completely disagree with having this "it is what it is" attitude to colts. Why not just take that attitude to the pyramid, or promotion and relegation. Ah well, L2 clubs don't want to open up promotion into tier 4. Best to try and make the best of it. Nope. If something isn't right, argue to change it.
I am absolutely all for a big review where everything is put on the table. The pyramid structure, promotion and relegation, youth development. Argue everything on it's merits. This cannot be be done properly when two clubs (with the power of veto) and the SFA or SPFL leadership are just using all of this as bargaining chips to suit the narrow agenda of two clubs. It's a ludicrous situation to be in and it's a catastrophic failure of leadership right across Scottish football.
But, not everyone is prepared to receive advice or accept change based on evidence or the merits of a proposal. There's a parochial resistance to change in Scottish Football caused by self-interest at every level - hence the sluggish 'pyramid'.
People will oppose B Teams even if it could be shown to work.
There needs to be strong leadership by the SFA and professional clubs to make necessary and overdue changes. Otherwise, the tail will continue to wag the dog in terms of decision making.
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19 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:
So you've given up on the usual pish to just say Celtic and Rangers.
Glasgow = 1.7m (Barcelona 1.6m, Vienna 1.8m, Prague 1.3m)
Edinburgh = 530k (Lisbon 505k)
Aberdeen = 230k (Porto 250k)
Dundee = 150k (Braga 190k)
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16 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:
Ye've basically confirmed the argument that B teams in the league is for the benefit of two clubs
Not sure why you'd think that.
Portugal has 6 clubs with B teams in the structure. Austria = 5; Spain = 6; France = 12; Czech Republic = 12; Netherland = 6
and so on
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18 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said:
So, to you, thinking outside the box is copying the systems of the only three European countries of our stature who have failed to qualify for a WC this century?
Thinking outside the box doesn't mean copying other nation's failures hoping it works for us.It would be reasonable to compare against clubs and cities of a 'similar stature' rather than comparing countries by population.
Quantities of people in urban areas (critical mass) tend to sustain successful football clubs (eg 50k season ticket holders + global reach). It is football clubs and not countries working day to day with elite young players in a professional environment, and paying for it.
None of the countries in your list are strong by club co-efficient (reflecting the strength of their leagues + top clubs):
17. Norway, 18. Denmark, 19. Croatia, 30. Slovakia, 35. Bosnia & Herzegovina, 36. Finland, 40. Ireland, 47. Georgia
Do many of these countries feature clubs of 'stature'?
Compared to the top 10:
1. England, 2. Spain, 3. Italy, 4. Germany, 5. France, 6. Portugal, 7. Netherlands, 8. Austria, 9. Scotland, 10. Russia
Those in bold feature B teams in their league structures (Italy has 1): it is quite normal, and most operate at T2 or T3 in the pyramid. The top 5 clubs in the English league feature several top class European players with B team experience.
As shown across Europe there is nothing inherently wrong with the concept of B-Teams but if implemented properly in Scotland they should not be so far down the order as the Lowland League. They should be part of the Professional Game - which realistically is T2.
It is time for a wholescale review of the league structure from top to bottom. We currently have a trickle of promotion / relegation between leagues which is not adequate. The structure is not shaped like a pyramid - it is a column.
There's not much between the top WoSFL and EoSFL clubs and those in L2 or L1, certainly when it comes to potential - and many of the towns and clubs are of 'similar stature'.
There is a volume of clubs who could operate competitively at T3 if the structure broadened out at that level to accommodate them - again, this is something you typically see across Europe in various league structures.
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On 02/06/2022 at 12:26, Sparticus said:
A yes vote to let three b teams in will completely ruin the lowland league.
The powers that be should take away the promotion slot if this happens.
The powers that be the SFA are fully supportive of the move:
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2 hours ago, Marten said:
You must be pretty deluded if you honestly think the B-teams in the LL have been a success. They have been a miserable failure and devalue the league. Hence why the bribe had to go up.
The 11v4 vote suggests otherwise.
B Teams are a success in Europe, and there's no reason why they can't be a success in Scotland.
Classic: Man City 4 v 3 Real Madrid midweek and 15 of the starting 22 players featured in B teams across 6 countries: Austria, France, Netherlands, Germany, Portugal, Spain. On average they played 30 games each in a pro B team, typically at tier 2 or 3 in the respective league pyramid against other FT professionals.
All of them play for their country.
Benzema the best striker around? Played 20 times for Lyon B team at 17-18yr old, it was part of his development.
Why not in Scotland? Probably not in the Lowland League, I'd agree - they should be in Tier 2 or 3.
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8 minutes ago, craigkillie said:
So in fact Johann Cruyff and the death of Franco have more to do with Spain's success than B teams. Cool, thanks.
A 'blend' of timing and circumstances, of which B Teams played a part.
This is "The hidden side of everything" if you believe the principles behind 'Freakonomics', which inspired 'Soccernomics'.
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On 12/04/2022 at 18:12, craigkillie said:
Curiously, the Dutch didn't have B teams when they played the original "Total Football" featuring Cruyff. Meanwhile, Spain had them since the 1940s at least, and were consistent underachievers on the global stage. So why would B teams suddenly be responsible for success around 60 years after they were introduced?
Nobody said that B teams were suddenly responsible for success - but they undeniably have played a part in many top players' careers and will continue to do so.
It is an irrelevance to note that Spain had B Teams since 1940s without dominating international football because there are other more significant factors at play.
1975 was significant in Spain because the country's fascist leader General Franco died. Prior to that, Spain was effectively isolated from the rest of Europe and was a relatively poor country as a consequence of its closed economy. With the growth in economy and wealth which followed political change, so did the country's success in football.
Kuper argues that their reputation as 'underperformers' was wrong - it was cliched and misguided, given the country's modest resources of people and wealth. It was simply not big or rich or connected enough to expect to match the leading nations in football.
He also asserts that it is possible to draw a direct line between Cruyff's arrival in Barcelona (in 1973) and Spain's victory in Johanesburg 37 years later.
Note that Cruyff promoted Guardiola from the Barca B team, and Guardiola cites him as the greatest influence in his career as a player and as a coach. Guardiola is supportive of the idea of B Teams in England - to a similarly conservative audience as we have in Scotland.
Whereas in Europe, it is normal, and works.
Here's a nice piece on the Man city website: https://www.mancity.com/features/cruyff-way/
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23 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:
He might only have played in his back garden, but I'll take his eyewitness and well researched accounts far more seriously than some Scottish Guy (I presume) taking stats completely out of context from random leagues all around Europe to suit his agenda.
For well researched accounts, what to do is order a copy of 'Soccernomics' by Kuper and Syzmanski and go straight to Chapter 18: "Made in Amsterdam: The rise of Spain and the Triumph of European Knowledge Networks"
Spain became better than Holland at Dutch (total) football. Indeed, in the 2010 final, the Dutch were accused of 'anti-football', by Cruyff.
Yes, they had success in 2014 (3rd place) - but this was the end of a golden generation - and changes were necessary. A lot of the top Spanish players play in B teams - this is quite normal.
I'm Scottish, and I've been to the Netherlands.
There are a lot of things we're doing very well in Scotland, some of which have roots in the SFA's "2020 Vision" report in 2011 and the follow-up in 2015. I just think we should continue to embrace new ideas and try things which might continue to improve the game here.
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On 08/04/2022 at 14:53, craigkillie said:
They "recognised something was wrong" at the point where they had just reached the World Cup final, and "made moves to fix it" which led to them failing miserably for three tournaments running.You'd need to ask the KNVB who drafted the "Winners of Tomorrow" plan for reviving Dutch football, where the focus shifted to youth.
Or Ruud Gullit who, after they failed to qualify in 2016, said, "It is a crisis because you could see all the signs and that it was coming. We have been asleep really. Everybody used to look at us as an example and we were really proud of that. But the other countries have improved..."
Others have said they were doomed by an obsession with the past: nostalgia, arrogance and insularity. Which all sounds quite familiar!
Jong Ajax went straight in at Tier 2, season 2013/14 (I think?).
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On 08/04/2022 at 14:15, Marten said:
Spain has had B-teams for a very long time, yet they were basically the biggest underachievers in international football until they won Euro 2008. It wasn't B-teams that changed it for them...
Of the team that beat Germany in the 2008 final, only 3 out of 14 Spanish players didn't play in their club B teams.
Casillas, Ramos, Machera, Puyol, Capdevilla, Iniesta, Xavi, Silva, Alonso, Carzola, Guila gained B or C team experience, 473 competitive matches between them.
That experience played a part in every players' development, and that is undeniable.
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Celtic and Hearts B Teams in Lowland League?
in Lowland League
Posted · Edited by Che Dail
Good article on the BBC website today about Benfica's youth academy, which includes a B-team at Tier 2 in Portugal:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64763373
They have produced a lot of players for the national team. Some are still at the club and others now play elsewhere in Europe.
B-Teams feature in professional leagues across Europe e.g. Spain, France, Germany, Netherlands, Austria, Norway, Czech Rep, Poland etc.
There's nothing wrong with the concept, but its long-term success will depend on the detail and how it is implemented in Scotland.