ShrimpLok

If Whitehill were relegated then surely they’d be replaced by the highest ranked licensed team which would be Penicuik, not Linlithgow.

If the rules were changed so all 10 Championship clubs entered at R3 and the HL and LL top 2 entered in R1 instead of R2 it would look like this: 60 entrants at Round 1 30 winners and 10 new entries (L2) at Round 2 20 winners and 20 new entries (L1, Championship) at Round 3 20 winners and 12 new entries (Premiership) at Round 4 We're getting to the point where this almost works. Not quite enough teams entering this year but it will work for 2020-21 Cup. This year we are guaranteed 55 entries at Round 1: 17-18 HL (17 if Cove Promoted) 16 LL 19-20 Licensed (19 if Berwick stay up) Amateur Cup Winners South and East Shield Winners There are also a potential 2-6 extra qualifiers (four junior league / cup winners and two EOS/SOS league winners. However these can be filled by licensed clubs / ineligible clubs / duplicates so there may not always be 6 extra teams. This year there may only be 3 if Talbot win West Premiership and the Junior Cup, combined with licensed Banks of Dee winning the north and ineligible Stranraer Reserves winning the SOS. So we need an extra 3 licensed clubs to guarantee that there would always be at least 60 entrants for a full slate of Round 1 ties. If, as seems likely, we have several more licensed clubs before the end of the year then this definitely seems the best way to arrange the 2020-21 Scottish Cup. This being the SFA we'll probably get three preliminary rounds instead!

At the risk of being extremely pedantic LRT hasn’t existed for 19 years .

This is a good point. In West Lothian for example my understanding is that the only clubs who fully own the land for their grounds are Linlithgow and Bathgate. The other ten ERJFA and EOS clubs all have leases of various types from the council. That's not to say that a lot of the facilities haven't been built by the clubs themselves though.

Wasn’t one of the SJFA criticisms that the EOS had “poached” the ERJFA clubs last year. Maybe they’re wanting to keep the door open but leave it low key so no one can accuse them of being too aggressive in recruiting clubs.

You could do a wee bit of geographical tweaking by committing not to put St Andrews in the same Conference as Tweedmouth / Coldstream / Eyemouth

The fact Tayport is in Fife is why I think there should be some flexibility in the system to allow Dundee and Angus clubs to choose either way. If the view from PGB is that broadly Dundee and Angus clubs should remain in the Highland League area then it would still be my view a flexible boundary would be better. I've suggested before that if maintaining a split along approximately the current line then the flexible areas should be: That part of Fife located in the Tayplan Strategic Planning area, clubs: Tayport, St Andrew's, Newburgh Perth and Kinross clubs: Jeanfield, Kinnoul, Scone, Luncarty, Blairgowrie, Coupar Angus, (Breadlabane) So you'd still have 10-15 clubs who could pick which side of the divide they wanted to go on but they'd be a different set of 15 clubs. If you're moving the line to be around the current ERJFA boundaries then I am still of the view there needs to be some flexibility. Dundee and Angus seems the obvious flexible area but you could instead specify it to be the Arbroath / Montrose / Brechin area of Angus. Either way an absolute hard boundary line doesn't seem to be helpful to moving the debate forward in comparison to a more flexible approach.

Agreed. I don't think it hugely matters whether you do it on Postcode or Local Authority but either way my view is that Dundee and Angus should be the flexible zone (to allow for Montrose Roselea) while Perth and Tayport should be in lowland. Although I can see why the existing lowland / highland split was agreed for good reasons and does give a better split of clubs than allowing Tayside into Lowland it is by no means a perfect line. There are two big flaws on the current boundary line: Tayport being separated from Dundee is pretty daft. The split at Perth separating Jeanfield Kinnoull and Scone to the south of the line while Luncarty, Blairgowrie and Breadalbane are to the north of the line would be weird as well. Luncarty would literally have to drive past Jeanfield and Kinnoull to get to matches in Dundee. A Local Authority based system would be much better from that perspective.

As are East and West Dunbartonshire so Clydebank, Yoker, Vale of Leven, Kirkintilloch Rob Roy and Kilsyth are all kicked out of the West Region as well.

You'd think there's not much chance of it happening this year. You'd maybe have to agree that this would be the 2020/21 structure to be comprised of the following clubs: EOS Premier: 1-10 from 2019-20 EOS Premier 1-2 from 2019-20 ERJFA North Super 1-2 from 2019-20 ERJFA South Super 1 from 2019-20 EOS Conference A 1 from 2019-20 EOS Conference B EOS Championship (x2): 11-16 from 2019 EOS Premier 3-8 from ERJFA North Super 3-8 from ERJFA South Super 1-2 from ERJFA North Premier 1-2 from ERJFA South Premier 2-6 from EOS Conference A 2-6 from EOS Conference B EOS League 1 (x2): 9-10 from ERJFA North Super 9 from ERJFA South Super 3-9 from ERJFA North Premier 3-9 from ERJFA South Premier 7-14 from EOS Conference A 7-14 from EOS Conference B

How about the EOSFL and ERJFA jointly propose this solution for the HL/LL split: Clubs whose home ground is located in the local authorities of Aberdeen City, Aberdeenshire, Highland, Moray, Orkney Islands, Shetland Islands and na h-Eileanan Siar shall be eligible for the Highland League. Clubs whose home ground is located in the local authorities of Argyll and Bute , City of Edinburgh, Clackmannanshire, Dumfries and Galloway, East Ayrshire, East Dunbartonshire, East Lothian, East Renfrewshire, Falkirk, Fife, Glasgow City, Inverclyde, Midlothian, North Ayrshire, North Lanarkshire, Perth and Kinross, Renfrewshire, Scottish Borders , South Ayrshire, South Lanarkshire, Stirling, West Dunbartonshire and West Lothian shall be eligible for the Lowland League. Clubs whose home ground is located in the local authorities of Angus and Dundee City shall be eligible for both the Highland League and the Lowland League. That would allow some flexibility for those such as Montrose Roselea who see their future in the north while allowing Breadalbane and the ERJFA Tayside teams to stay in LL area if that is what they prefer. It leads to an uneven split of population but if it is the only way to get all clubs into a single unified structure then in my view it would be a sacrifice worth making.

Ian Maxwell reads like TJ has taken him out for some succulent lamb.

I used to work with a guy who was always taking time off work to go and film A Shot at Glory. Think he portrayed the Rangers keeper, had possibly been at Stenhousemuir as a keeper in the mid 90s? Scratch that. Wikipedia tells me it was ex Airdrie keeper John Martin and he portrayed the Kilnockie keeper until injured in the semi final. Apparently we should have been shouting Scab at him at work, not sure I would have done mind as he was hard as fucking nails.

Maybe the best solution is just to open LL2 applications and promise at least 50% of acceptances will be from Strathclyde / D&G. Then see how many teams apply. If 8-10 apply from west then go with a LL2. If they get 16-20 applicants then establish a LL2E and LL2W immediately. 2 year grace period for licensing with only licensed teams able to go up to LL. Pyramid solved.

Could see SFA being displeased if LL2 was only open to top finishers in EOS. However assuming LL2 were open to application and specifically reserved a number of places (6? 8?) for West of Scotland teams to apply (subject to a commitment to progressing licensing over the next 12-24 months) I can't see why the SFA would object to that? LL2 would be getting the top juniors (East and West) in at Tier 6 as promised to the SFA. Can't see any reason why the LL wouldn't want to progress it this year to be honest. They'll want to have an expanded licensed structure in time and its surely much easier to deliver LL2 now than it will be in 12 months time.

What Breadalbane does show is that a simple line of latitude is probably not the best solution. There are several potential alternative border lines that could be drawn but every one has disadvantages for some teams: Current Tay Bridge mid point Latitude line Tayport cut off from Dundee, Luncarty, Blairgowrie, Coupar Angus, Breadalbane cut off from Perth teams, Scone Thistle north of Tay but in LL area. River North Esk or Angus / Aberdeenshire border Montrose Roselea forced back to East Region / LL River South Esk, Brechin Victoria force into North Region / HL Perth / Angus border Blairgowrie, Coupar Angus cut off from Dundee teams River Earn or Kinross-shire - Fife boundary Tayport cut off from Dundee, Jeanfield Swifts forced back to Tayside / HL Slightly further south Latitude line (Mugdrum island in the Tay for example) Allows Tayport in Tayside while keeping Newburgh and St Andrew's in the LL area Would force a potential Oban based team into the HL rather than West Region which would probably be more viable. Jeanfield Swifts forced back to Tayside / HL Perhaps the best option in terms of keeping all the clubs happy would be for Angus clubs to be able to choose themselves whether to go north or south but with Perthshire, Argyll and Fife clubs definitely being south. Moving the dividing line like that though would seriously reduce the HL catchment and make the overall balance of clubs much more lopsided.

Of course once the West Juniors are in the Pyramid they can tell Breadalbane they're not eligible as they're north of the Tay and they need to go and join the ERJFA Tayside League.

It does sound quite like what happened with the Isthmian League at reconstruction in England in the 90s. Allows all the clubs to remain where they are for now while bringing them into the nationwide system but shows them the direction that everything will be going in future. So long as there is a direction of travel it doesn't seem a terrible short term solution. Would be quite easy for the SFA to subsequently tell any licensed clubs in ERJFA that those south of Tay who wish to remain licensed need to realign to their correct geographical league of the EOS.

You potentially only need three more clubs to get licensed and you are forced to have 3 preliminary rounds assuming that unlicensed clubs win the three junior leagues and the Junior cup winners didn't also win a Superleague. Now you might think adding a third preliminary round is simple but the problem is that Preliminary Round One is already on 11 August. If you want to keep the same dates then it isn't simple to have three preliminary rounds as the new PR1 would need to be in mid July. There are two simple ways to reduce the need for extra preliminary rounds. The top four championship clubs could enter with the rest of the Championship in round 3 and the top two LL and HL would enter in round 1 instead of round 2. The top four championship clubs moving to round 3 would create an extra 16 places in round 1. Moving the LL and HL top 2 would create an extra 4 places in round 1. Even with an influx of 20 new licensed members the combination of those two changes would virtually remove the need for a preliminary round I'm sure both of those changes could be agreed given time but they are the sort of thing that a licensing moratorium gives the SFA a chance to think about and plan for future rather than just tacking on ever earlier preliminary rounds. So having said that we'll almost certainly have an extra PR1 in July next summer!

One interesting thing in the SFA Articles of Association is a specific limit on members of 200. With LTHV being member 90 we're still a way off getting anywhere near that but interesting that someone felt the need to put an absolute limit in the constitution and curious that 200 was chosen as that limit. It’s a number significantly higher than the historical number of members but also significantly lower than the total number of Scottish Football Clubs playing on semi-enclosed pitches and charging admission which this year I reckon to be 267 clubs in total - including all juniors, EOS, SOS, NCL but excluding the reserve sides.

BoD had their license prior to the Pyramid commitment requirement. It will be interesting to see what happens the next time a north of Tay club submits a license application. Could be NCL or a junior team. While the Highland League may not need to accept them it would certainly seem unreasonable for the SFA to reject a license application from a team like Broughty or Lochee when they have no clear path to joining the pyramid. Perhaps with the new ground share Montrose Roselea might be the team to break the glass ceiling as they only need to deal with the club requirements side of things?

I don't think Tayport would be keen to sign up for anything that isolates them from Dundee clubs.

Also if going down the north/south route someone needs to point out that Luncarty is 5 miles north of Perth and they would have to drive past Scone and Kinnoull on their way to every south fixture! It's a poorly thought out proposal if they can't even get the split point right.

Far be it from me to suggest the East Region powers that be don't know what they are doing but I think they've got the cup plans wrong. I know Tayport play in the GA Cup rather than Fife and Lothians but that still leaves 17 teams who would enter the Fife and Lothians so there can't be a 16 team straight all in draw? No teams seem to have pulled out this year so unless there is some other disciplinary matter or a team is opting to switch to the GA cup it seems that this is wrong? No big deal to have a 1 fixture preliminary round but just a little concerning if they've miscounted the teams... 17 teams remaining in ERJFA who entered the 2017-18 Fife and Lothians Cup: Armadale Thistle Bathgate Thistle Fauldhouse United Glenrothes Harthill Royal Kennoway Star Hearts Kirkcaldy YM Livingston United Lochgelly Albert Lochore Welfare Newburgh Pumpherston Juniors Rosyth Stoneyburn Juniors Thornton Hibs West Calder United Whitburn Juniors

Geography obviously isn’t the strongest point of whoever came up with that proposal! Kinnoull and Scone both well to the south of Luncarty. I hope the remaining clubs see sense and reject going by pure league position. Pumpherston deserve promotion after your strong season last year.