Carnoustie Young Guvnor

That's effectively what a consultative referendum is, with much more legitimacy. We can't call a Scottish general election, a consultative referendum (which is exactly what the EU one was) carries much less problems. Its actually a fallacy that SNP policy was a majority of MP's equalled a mandate for independence, that was always to be followed by putting the terms of independence to a vote ie a referendum. Also when Thatcher said that it didn't make that the constitutional reality, it was just a throwaway statement same as once in a generation.

Know what else I might do just now if I was NS and in a rabble rousing mood? Employ a couple of forensic accountants, have them dig up irrefutable evidence on as many members of the British cabinet as possible that they are guilty of some form of financial corruption, as they are fuckin are, and use it to bribe them into agreeing a s30 request in return for not having them jailed. Could be a fun wee side project.

Using an election as a plebiscite just couldn't work imo. Certainly not a HR election, a GE I don't know for sure Ad Fib could enlighten us but I'd seriously doubt it. As for unionists councils, a consultative referendum is not the Scottish government doing something they're not allowed to do. So you've got to imagine there's way that could be facilitated despite the obvious objections of unionist councils.

For me the only focus apart from the pandemic should be on securing an SNP majority ideally in May, or SNP-Green. Without that there will be no movement whatsoever for a minimum of five years so everything else is secondary to that. After that I think there will probably be a consultative referendum. There is a problem that unionist controlled councils which is most of them would probably refuse to cooperate. So Scotgov would need to find a way round that. However, they are definitely allowed to hold a consultative referendum, so to call it 'illegitimate' or 'wildcat' isn't true, though that's what it will be called. What you do with the results of that I don't know. I think one day Scotgov will need to present the results of that to either a court or the EU/Biden administration to say we have demonstrated this is the clear will of the people of Scotland. With this in mind, imo its crucial any referendum secures a bare minimum of 2.2 million votes for independence. That would represent 50% +1 of the Scottish electorate, so even if unionists boycott it, as they probably would, Scotgov could say it doesn't matter, even if every single person in the country who didn't vote had voted against we'd still have won. So then you could say with all accuracy this is the clearly expressed democratic wish of the people of Scotland. I think the EU may be in a position uniquely receptive to what we have to say given the unique position we are in, and Biden is essentially an Irish nationalist so would be more sympathetic than most other US presidents (witness what he said to the BBC recently), and if you could get those two bodies to agree the whole house of cards could come falling down and WM agree to recognise it. The second they do it becomes constitutional, meaning Spain's objection wouldn't be a problem now. Failing that you are waiting for a GE which returns a Labour government but without a majority, who can only govern with SNP support. This has never happened in history, but is actually quite a likely outcome of the next GE. Also, its not necessarily the case that the next GE will be 2024, as we have seen recently they can come about a lot more often than that and this government is teetering after the Covid shambles and blatant corruption going on. Then the SNP simply say to Labour we will help you govern for one parliament on a confidence and supply basis in return for a s30. Hold the referendum say 18 months into that parliament and use the following 3.5 years to negotiate the terms of independence timing it to leave at the end of that parliament with elections in iScotland six months later. I understand this is far from ideal, everyone wants independence now and the sooner we get it the easier everything is especially EU entry. The reason Scotgov are trying to pass legislation just now to retain alignment with EU standards is to make eventual EU accession much easier, but the IMB will try to undermine that. So its messy and there's lots of potential problems but there are a couple of possible avenues too. We could have a consultative referendum as early as September this year potentially, though imo next year more likely, but if we can hold that and get 50% +1 of the electorate to vote for independence the ball will be rolling. But its a difficult thing with lots of pitfalls and potential problems, and Scotgov has an unenviable task. What London will be relying on is splits in the SNP (hello trans issue tearing the party apart) meaning all this becomes academic anyway. To have any chance the SNP has to continue to absolutely own Scottish politics for a good while yet and to do so it has to remain fairly united. That's not wheest for indy but the anger created by people advocating a plebiscite election when this does not become a reality is not helping at all, and neither is the pish going on around the trans debate just now. Also obstructionism and a campaign of civil disobedience are options for the future. But who knows, I don't have the answers more than anyone else.

Amazing how stupid someone would have to be to think Sturgeon has been the catalyst for the shift in the polls. Helllllooooooo Brexit and Boris Johnson. If it was Sturgeon the polls wouldn't have remained completely static for the first FIVE YEARS of her premiership. The polls have shifted since Brexit became a reality and Boris took office. They are obviously the reasons, as well as the inevitable demographic changes.

That's what I'm talking about, its not constitutional. Also there is a big problem with democracy. If you wanted to do that you would have to have a manifesto that is just one sentence, one page. Vote for us and we will declare independence. But then what mandate do the SNP have to govern the country for the following five years in that case? Nobody will have voted for that. One thing I've never heard anyone talk about is obstructionism at WM. Imo that could work, there are all sorts of daft archaic rules at WM that can be used to obstruct parliamentary business. You could paralyse WM for months, even years potentially. Ad Fib would need to give us the lowdown on ways around it, but it would be a way to hold the UK govt hostage. We could have, for example, stopped them passing any legislation related to Brexit, completely paralysed the functioning of the UK parliament and said no s30 no Brexit. Then let their own supporters get angry enough at them by dragging it out that they eventually agreed. Turn the pressure on them. Could have worked who knows.

Aye we are, domestically, but other countries don't care whether we're sovereign or not. If we want to, for example, join the EU, their rules and requirements are very clear, so we have to abide by them or we can be sovereign all day and it won't matter a jot. The Spanish constitution explicitly states the kingdom of Spain is indivisible. This is why Spain's position re Scottish independence and EU membership has always been they have no problem with it as long as its done constitutionally. The reason for this is if we managed to join the EU having seceded from the UK in a manner that isn't constitutional Catalonia would then possibly be able to do the same, or would certainly try to. So if we want to join the EU we have to leave the UK in a constitutional manner. Its a bit shite for Catalonia but there's not much we can do about that. That's before you get onto problems with the UN (rUK would be successor state and retain permanent UNSC seat, for a whole at least ((one of the things that amuses me most about that is it would almost certainly eventually go to the EU which is beyond hilarious)) meaning they have a veto on all applications to for UN membership) and the USA refusing to recognise us etc. They are the three key ones the UN, EU and USA, and also London, it would be very hard to negotiate the terms of independence with a government that did not recognise our independence. People talking about a plebiscite election are badly misinformed. Imo that would lead to the Scottish parliament being closed down within weeks and direct rule from London once again. May even see NS and top SNP reps charged with sedition or something mental like that, just like has happened in Catalonia. And despite what AOUB will tell you, nobody in the world would give the slightest f**k that we are sovereign, that only means something to us. It may even see actual troops being deployed on the streets of Scotland if we tried to declare independence in that way, and that would be utterly mental. Nobody wants that and it wouldn't achieve anything anyway. There is a big issue though. If you say to a group of people, in this case Scotland, there are no ways you can democratically realise your ambitions, no matter what you want or how you vote, you are pushing them down a very dangerous path. I don't see Scotland ever becoming like NI was but if it did that's how it would start, and again there is nobody that wants that and it wouldn't do anyone any good. Plus it doesn't work anyway.

Topical, related to this, if this is the shite people are fed you can't really blame them for being idiots

That's a piss poor excuse whatever way an area has voted. Its true though, people are basically the same everywhere, when they think differently its cause they have different sources of information. That's why you see the disparities between old and young and why everyone in England thinks they subsidise Scotland as their media has been telling them that their whole lives. You can't really blame the people themselves, they were duped. That's why good public education and most of all a free, fair, balanced and comprehensive media are absolute cornerstones of democracy. If you let people decide it really helps if they aren't idiots, and have access to good information. In the UK and USA they don't anymore, and that's how things like Trump and Brexit happen. Also large swathes of the population left behind by neoliberalism.

That's actually pish. The Scottish government can hold a consultative referendum any time it wants on any subject it wants. The problem is it isn't legally binding. The boy doesn't have a scoob what he's talking about.

Yeah, I wasn't disagreeing with any of that. Just frustrated that he has potential but isn't getting the game time at his current club to realise it. Aye, he does look very raw and the only way to fix that is loads of games so he probably isn't in the best place long term imo.

McBurnie only got to 81 would make sense. Obviously I'm joking

I'm not too worried. Players don't become pish in a few months, he was good enough six months ago for a team in one of the top five leagues in the world to give him a four year deal. He isn't playing for them now but that doesn't mean he's shite, just means they have a few strikers and he is lower down the pecking order than the rest of them. He may or may not make it there but he's shown enough at u21 to indicate he has a chance. Raw but good attributes. It might be Reims won't work out for him, it might be that level is just a touch too hard for him certainly just now, but sometimes players just need to find their level and settle down and play a bit and you will start to see the best of them. Hendry is showing that now in Belgium, Gauld too. Aberdeen to me on paper sounds great, losing Cosgrove so there is a vacancy and the way they play suits a player like him. The only thing is a 4 month loan where he plays 12 games won't do it, he needs a bit longer than that. He could do quite well, go back to France then be on the bench again. So an 18 month loan might be best but Reims don't really care what's best for him only what's best for them so he'll have to wait and see how things pan out in the summer. In the meantime I like the sound of that move and it would give us all a good look at him too including Steve Clarke so it would be no bad thing.

Completely serious, he was amazing. Scored about 300 goals.

Talk about conspiratorial

You're not going to find many people saying they think she ought to go, especially so close to an election, but if the enquiry finds she misled parliament she has no choice she's gone. You don't seem to be understanding that, though tbf you're far from alone.

Yeah you clearly don't get it. None of this matters, if the enquiry finds she misled parliament knowingly she has to go, those are the rules. None of the rest of it matters, she'll have broken the ministerial code and that's that. And she definitely did.

I did an all Scottish team on Pro Evo and he got to 83, basically couldn't miss when you put a cross in the box, so I think he is well worth persevering with. His record at 21's is pretty good too, Aberdeen would be a good chance for him. Maybe even for 18 months, he needs more than ten games on loan, 50 would give him a better grounding.

Didn't know about that. Aye was surprised to see Levante 9th I think and Cadiz 12th both doing better than you'd expect. Saw the second goal class finish. I think Barca must be able to overtake Real now if they win tomorrow, Real are just imploding now. Read an article from Balague the tosser who said Real planning for the end of the Zidane era, he's just not a Real Madrid manager. His teams are stodgy pish, ironic from such a great player. A lot of their top players getting old at the same time too. Big rebuild for somebody, you've got to imagine Zidane would be doing well to finish the season at this rate.

That's cause of their media. They voted Brexit too.

Finished 2-1. Atleti now go to Cadiz tomorrow with the chance to go 10 points clear with a game in hand, currently 7 clear with 2 games.

Wow, what an opportunity for Atleti, Real losing 2-1 at home to Levante, (well not sure they're playing actually at home yet) in the last ten minutes after playing most of the game with ten men. Hopefully JDMP gets to see them lift the title if they manage to do it. Never get a better chance than this.

He's not playing there, I think it would do him a lot of good

I was sharing information to save folk having to look things up themselves. Just facts, no comment. Perhaps I shouldn't bother in future? That'd be grand

That's three games in a row now he's sat on the bench. Bologna made fourteen subs over those three games as well. Aye, he's 18 years old mate. This is really no cause for concern whatsoever.