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I think it could be taken as sign this team under Clarke is continuing to move in the right direction. I don't personally buy that much into comparisons between generations or the 'making history' line from Clarke and Scotland. It's good in the sense that it gives us a goal and a purpose at the tournament to focus the mind, but beyond that if your line between success and failure is decided by 90 minutes of football then you're probably looking at the wrong things. If we win, it would be a big boost for everyone ahead of the Nations League, but regardless of how we do tomorrow we know we're still a bit short of being consistently competitive against the top-10 nations, but we can be consistently competive against the teams just below that and in one off games against the top-10.

I think it was Postecoglu that said the idea of formations and positions was a bit outdated and its more about balancing numbers. e.g. 4 players in the box when a cross is about to be played; 3 players on the edge of the box at a corner to counter press and so on. Yer flat back-4 and yer 541 don't really mean anything in that context. Just a shorthand. It can be negative if that shorthand is taken literally as we see on here plenty. Fans thinking that because the BBC graphic shows us playing '3421' that we'll get overrun in midfield as we have only two midfielders in there. Fans don't factor in that it's only a question of yardage for supporting players to balance the numbers out in that area.

You'd end up with a telephone directory if you charted all the different formations in a game. 4-atb can become a back-3, a back-6, a back-1 and so on at different stages of a game. Formations provide a simplified picture in your head. An approximation. Not something to get worked up about. It really isn't.

Calm down mate, no need to start tossing out insults. Formations are just a shorthand, nothing more. You can't cover the complexity of team shape and strategy in 3 or 4 numbers. I think most people recognise that. Nothing to get worked up over and certainly not a hill worth dying on. Fair enough?

Unsure how this'll go. I could see any outcome tbh from us losing early goals and the whole enterprise going as flat as a pancake to us charging into a 3-nil lead and anything in between. Whatever happens if the players play a good game I won't be too disappointed even if we don't make it through.

Anyone have any idea about how Hungary play? I haven't watched them at the tournament. I've heard they've developed into a team that can do a bit of everything from being a counter-attacking team. A bit like Scotland.

Hopefully not something contagious.

That's it exactly. Fans see the game like subbuteo. Players can move around the pitch and change shape depending on the situation. So getting hung up over rigid formations isn't necessary. Just because it says on paper we're playing 541 doesn't mean every situation plays out like that. It's only a shorthand. I agree it has a place. I was making the point that fans unfortunately and inevitably jump on it with the square pegs/round hole/natural position crap when we lose. It's just a risk/reward calculation. Will you gain more than you lose. He does it, won a corner against Switzerland from doing exactly that. Not as well or regularly as KT, but he's supreme in the air which is also a plus and his forward passing is underrated. Again it's just pros/cons situation.

Quite bad for Arsenal and potentially KT in the sense of being an attractive proposition given his continuing injury troubles. I think his career s in a bit of a tricky spot unfortunately. As I understand it he can get back to 'full fitness', but his knee issue can't be corrected and so can just go again at any time.

Tony McRudiger is an honorary Scot.

Germany started their build up phase with three mostly, Kroos, Tah and Rudiger, and sometimes a four even though they had a back-4 on paper. The Netherlands did the same back in March. Unfortunately Scotland can't do things like that because we mustn't play square pegs in round holes, we have to play players in their 'natural' position and don't want to overthink things.

Clarke did it with McTominay and fans were up in arms. Failed experiment i believe was the fan consensus. 'You can't play square pegs in round holes' 'Play players in their natural positions' Fans want 433 or 442 and on the front foot, we know that. That'll never change. Anything else and the manager is overfinkin it.

lol, sorry to disappoint you. An hour's a long time to be waiting by your phone for a reply. Thank you for the effort. Means a great deal to me. I don't agree with that assessment. I don't want to write an essay, but It's only an issue when the team loses. There are more reasons than KT and Robbo for playing 3atb. I think it was Granit Xhaka who said Scotland are playing almost a man to man marking system defensively. That doesn't tally with the picture of 3 Scotland defenders marking space while opposition strikers drop deep. Fair play to @accies1874for noticing it in March.

He came on for the final 20/25 minutes against Gibraltar.

I suppose you're a Morton fan so I can see why straying from the idea of yer formation would be a bit scary.

The Germany game was a damage limitation exrcise before H/T. If we had been chasing the Swiss game you'd have more chance of seeing them. Same against Hungary: how a game is going has a massive impact on Clarke's subs. This is why Clarke said he was considering 4 goalies and prefers a 23-man squad. He'll not use the full squad unless he has to through injury. A few are saying that the players have been run into the ground and I agree to an extent because of the pressure and occasion, but the game schedule is not more hectic than at their clubs.

Aye, it just a bit of fear from past events probably with a dose hedging your bets in case things go south chat added in. "Of course we won't qualify, thats what we do. Happy to be proved wrong"

Hungary probably feel a bit unfortunate to be in the position they're in. I haven't watched their games so I'm relying on second hand accoints, but it appears superficially that they've not done loads wrong and still their life in the tournament is hanging by a thread. With the Swiss and Germany it just shows how much easier your life becomes if you can win your opening game. There is definitely an element of lottery about the group stages.

Counter attacks are a big worry especially from corners. Our goal came from that. There will be a lot of thought gone into the Set plays even if it isn't obvious to us. Same with McGinn standing next to goalkeeper when we have an attacking free kick. Just have to trust the people who are responsible.

It's a totally different experience, it's more clear headed. Added to that you miss so much watching it only once. There's an incredible amount of things going on concurrently during a football match. Same with a good film, song, book or even a place: The more you revisit it the more depth is revealed.

Yeah that's true. If we get an adverse result against Hungary then the Manager out brigade will be over here in force and in full voice, you can bet on that. I thought we might have seen a few posters complimenting Clarke for a decent response to adversity last night instead, but no-one seemed in the mood.

How so?

You've been found out for the absolute Imposter that you are at this level of the game.

That's it for me with Ralston. If you make a mistake you have to move on and he managed to do that. In a 3 game group the effect of randomness is huge and that's why I'm reluctant to go in hard if we don't make it out of the group. That game last night could have ended up won, lost or drawn. The performance would still have been the performance regardless of the result, but the narrative would have changed wildly based only on the result. Which is crazy too. My brother said the same thing as you, but I thought we were better in the first half. I agree with the rest of your paragraph. I can't remember who, but someone on here had said earlier we wouldn't see that shape again. That's obviously just recency bias in motion: a phenomenon that has huge traction amongst football fans I've noticed. Just because we've not used it in a while doesn't mean it's not still in the toolbox. I've done up to the first goal: we had 34% possession and 26 turnovers. It was quite a stop-start game. In that period we turned the ball over every 5 seconds and Switzerland turned it over every 10 seconds. We turned it over in our third ~20% of the time, which is okay. Same for the Swiss.

I don't think it matters if we start in a back-3 or a back-4. We can just change how we build the game while it's in progress.