eliphas

It's a valid point @thisGRAEME Personally, I do think it's probably now at the point Kelly is causing more uncertainty than he was and it's tipped over into that scenario you outline. I mean, I've seen Spittal shouting at him the last couple of games which I don't think I've seen before. I'd be very very surprised if Kettlewell doesn't see that. He's stubborn, but I don't think he is stupid. To be clear - I'm not standing up for Kettlewell here not dropping him but I think those are the likely scenarios.

To be fair to @Busta Nuthe's always been pretty consistent in thinking Kelly is shite. I'm more along the lines of @well fan for life but I think we can all agree Kelly has been mince for a wee while now and his confidence looks absolutely shot.

I think the narrative of Kettlewell only keeping Kelly in goal because of a chance of getting to the Euros is a bit strong to be honest. It's more likely to be he thinks dropping him will either completely rock the boat eve further with the defensive set up and/or Oxborough isnt a decent alternative. If there is any manager of the last few years who really doesn't give a f**k about how players feel it's Kettlewell I'd say

Kelly won't be in the first 3 picked now Gordon is back. Only way he will go is if we take 4 and then I think Clarke would take him out if loyalty and keeping his goalies together. Which he does prefer to do.

Believe he's the highest paid player but it's not absolutely daft money. He got a large signing on fee when he signed - that was the difference maker. In an ideal world I'd drop him and I've been a big supporter of him up until now. It's a fine line how much a defensive unit is chopped and changed so I can see why, in theory, SK sticks with Kettlewell and Butcher and the others. But something has to give I think.

Wouldn't make wholesale changes as we'd likely completely lose balance. - Mugabi out, SOD to RCB, Devine to start at RWB - Paton for Nicholson We win End

100% - it's not a terrible indicator but it's got quite a lot of unmeasurable/unmeasured (e.g. type of shot) and measurable (e.g. volume of shots) variations that should be taken into account. Even without that stat I think we can all see Kelly definitely hasn't saved some he should have and a number of them he was saving them in his first 18 months with us he's not now. Interestingly, though, depending on the source (I've used https://footystats.org/players/scotland/liam-kelly) his save % is not trending in the right direction it's fair to say. 21/22 - 67% 22/23 - 66% 23/24 - 60%

Quite interesting that. To me anyway. Looks like it goes as far as having actual financial and operational data from clubs who are partners. If I am guessing it should give us a bit of a better idea of wage costs for loans and perm transfers. Maybe will help us target the right clubs and staff. Plus, it's a Scandinavian company which means it must be good.

Aye, not sure about that Woods stat, plus Kelly also had a very good season/season and half for us too which I don't remember Woods doing for us. But. I 100% do get your point and I am well at the end of my tether with him too. He needs taken out the headlights for a wee while. He's very unlikely to get a shout for the Euros now so I don't think it would even dent those hopes.

Kelly had a great second half of the season loan under Alexander 20/21 season From memory, I think Kelly had a decent season 21/22 that year saving us quite a few times. Not to the levels of 20/21 but much better than now G. Alexander left July 22 and N. Alexander came in Sept 22/23 season as a new GK coach He's gradually went down hill since then, so basically since G. Alexander left and /or since N. Alexander came in. Or you could say through the shambles of Hammell very ropey, looked fine when we had a settled Kettlewell back 3, and then back to shocking this year behind a revolving back line.

The whole long ball thing to Bair was a reaction to Morton completely shutting down the couple of attacking gameplans we have (Bevis/SOD berserker runs and Paton,Spittal interplay). So I don't really blame the players for that - all on Kettlewell not having an alternative system. The only thing that worked well was Gent's pace up the left. But even that can only last for so long and the end product wasn't really there

Yes and no for me. I do think Kelly should be getting it, agreed. But absolving Paton, and to an extent Spittal too, and our system we play at corners, of any blame is looking for Kelly being a problem rather than looking at the whole situation. I mean Paton might as well not have been there and been sat up Tim Horton's.

Nutshell.

Agree on all that. Kelly trying to push the players out the way, only to put himself off balance was a shambles. I still think Paton especially has to take an equal pounding for trying to mark his man standing behind him though. Agree on Devine. I'd rather see him on the right, and SOD moved back to the right of the back 3 next time we play. Mugabi experiment over again thanks Stuart.

Morton had us well scouted, chased down everything, out muscled us and crowded us out in the right areas (e.g. didn't let Bevis/SOD do their berserker run thing, didn't let Paton and Spittal have time to think, and isolated Bair). So fair play to them. I do think Kettlewell should have seen that coming and a change of shape part way through the first half is what we'd see the vast majority of managers do to counter act the above. I'd really hoped Kettlewell had learned the lesson from the first half of the season that being over reliant on only 1 game plan is not good enough. But he clearly hasn't. The players also have to take their blame too as they all seemed on their heels and not quite on it. For the first the goal, Kelly is mince definitely but Paton is absolutely awful also at marking his man, and we need need to sack off this idea of not having men on the posts. Spittal was neither on the post or in his zonal marking position so didn't even get near it either. 3 opportunities to stop that goal. Second goal, I hope we see this as a sign to not play McGinn on the left of a back 3. He's so out of balance there and makes silly decisions Vs playing on the right.

I mean I basically need @capt_oats to make the reference to something like The Last of Us, Game of Thrones related, maybe even Lost or The OC if he's keen

Cards on the table. I've only seen one episode of Seinfeld in my life.

Yeah that's the jist I got as well from reading bits and bobs. Ross looks like a wee boy too. So I do get why Shaw is back. It's just a shame it probably restricts those boys development a bit. May be a moot point if Kettlewell thinks they are miles off it anyway

I get it, I suppose, as we all pretty much said, running with two strikers + broken Jon is too risky. If we have no options, which we clearly don't, Shaw does bring experience if we end up down to bare (Bair...lol) bones. My only concern is it restricts Ferrie and others completely probably.

Haha, just saw that too https://www.barnsleyfc.co.uk/news/2024/february/shaw-loan/ I guess it's another body if the other 3 don't work

Honking from Craigan on Comms too. That move with Vake and Gent where the timing was a wee bit off and he was on his heels a bit had Craigan coming straight out with 'he doesn't look like a natural finisher'. He'd been on for about 2 minutes. Absolute drivel from Craigan as normal. He also constantly talked Bair down rather than taking up the great stuff he was doing. Murder

Pleasing

I'm sure the big lamps were on behind someone in an interview as recently as the last week.

I think the arguments are fair there. Fully in-form Casey is what I'm thinking about and get gets a first pick for me. Blaney I just think gives us more balance on the left of a back 3 as he is left footed. But I do accept he's not played a whole load.

I think Kettlewell will stick with the same starting 11 but I'd like to see some changes bled in over the next few games. -Not a huge fan of the Mugabi/Butcher/McGinn back 3. Butcher seems to be coming back to some form now he's playing. Mugabi is always round the corner from a disaster and McGinn often looks awkward on the left. But I'd probably leave it as it is over chopping and changing for now. I do think Casey/Butcher/Blaney is probably where we want to get to though. - Miller is too much of a talent to be sitting on the bench much longer now he's back. So someone needs to give way and it's Davor or Halliday. - Paton has been very busy but 99% of the time just doesn't have that final ball or shot. I'd as a minimum hope to see Nicholson get longer off the bench and if he proves to be a better option than Paton he should take the spot.