The Wrestling Thread

[Marshmallo]

Does anyone else think they're putting the 3 straps on Ryder, Punk and Bryan to test the various reactions to having them as the next top face, with a possible Cena heel turn? Building the 3 of them also creates 3 ready made money feuds for Cena as a heel.

[banterman86]

Does anyone else think they're putting the 3 straps on Ryder, Punk and Bryan to test the various reactions to having them as the next top face, with a possible Cena heel turn? Building the 3 of them also creates 3 ready made money feuds for Cena as a heel.

One thing that occured to me. the December ppv normally underperforms, putting belts on 3 "Internet darlings" at this time may no be a good thing for them long term.

I don;t think cena's turn will happen until there's a proper generational change, ala Hogan. you;d need to look at the demographic he caters to, when he started catering to them and how old they;d be now. they need a replacement in that sense as well, Punk may be a top seller, but not to the same crowd as Cena.

[Marshmallo]

One thing that occured to me. the December ppv normally underperforms, putting belts on 3 "Internet darlings" at this time may no be a good thing for them long term.

I don;t think cena's turn will happen until there's a proper generational change, ala Hogan. you;d need to look at the demographic he caters to, when he started catering to them and how old they;d be now. they need a replacement in that sense as well, Punk may be a top seller, but not to the same crowd as Cena.

I think the WWE invest into the life cycle of a fan, or some other similar term. Punk could appeal to the fans who loved Cena in 2006 or 2007 when they were 8/9/10, with those fans now teenagers.

[DomDom]

Yes I can... What does Daniel Bryan bring to the table then? It's not mic skills and it's not in-ring entertainment. Perhaps some people find one dimensional characters applying submission moves entertaining, I for one, absolutely do not.

If applying submission moves was all that Daniel Bryan did, then you'd have a point, but that isn't what he does, so you don't. He brings intensity at times in the ring which is something that WWE don't take enough advantage of. If they had Bryan turn heel, he could at least show off what character he DOES have. It's what made him stand out for so long on the independent scene. Right now, as a babyface, he doesn't offer much character wise.

As for the Cena not being on the PPV, that was just about the dumbest thing they could have done. Sure, have him in something completely meaningless, but this must be the first time that they've had an available #1 draw and not used them on PPV. Ever.

[jay_7]

If applying submission moves was all that Daniel Bryan did, then you'd have a point, but that isn't what he does, so you don't. He brings intensity at times in the ring which is something that WWE don't take enough advantage of. If they had Bryan turn heel, he could at least show off what character he DOES have. It's what made him stand out for so long on the independent scene. Right now, as a babyface, he doesn't offer much character wise.

Right, so because I don't find him entertaining in the slightest... I'm wrong and don't have a point? Wow. You actually just said that.

[bkay]

Coles commentary on the main event on Raw was terrible. Bryan would be a much better heel going against a face Orton.

Edited December 20, 2011 by bkay

[DomDom]

Right, so because I don't find him entertaining in the slightest... I'm wrong

and don't have a point?

You used him applying submission holds as some sort of example. I said that's not all he does and that you had no point there. Whether you choose to see that as calling your entire point shite or not is completely up to yourself.

[djchapsticks]

Yes I can... What does Daniel Bryan bring to the table then? It's not mic skills and it's not in-ring entertainment. Perhaps some people find one dimensional characters applying submission moves entertaining, I for one, absolutely do not.

If you genuinely believe this then you don't have a clue what you're on about, TBH.

I hate to sound smarky as it's not usually in my nature, but if you don't think DB is a good or entertaining wrestler, go and have a look at some of his ROH stuff during his title run. The fact of the matter is that he could wrestle a plank of wood and make it look good.

For the record, you're not wrong because you don't find him entertaining, you're wrong because you're questioning his wrestling ability. Obviously you're part of the 'I have an opinion and it's my opinion and you're out of order for saying it might be wrong' brigade, going by your last little dummy spitting post directed at DomDom.

[DomDom]

I hate to sound smarky as it's not usually in my nature, but if you don't think

DB is a good or entertaining wrestler, go and have a look at some of his ROH

stuff during his title run. The fact of the matter is that he could wrestle a

plank of wood and make it look good.

He's done enough good stuff in WWE as well. The short fued with Sheamus, the absolute corker he had with Dolph Ziggler on PPV, giving The Miz his best ever one on one match and the most recent example of giving Mark Henry HIS best one on one match too, albeit inside the steel cage.

Edited December 20, 2011 by DomDom

[jay_7]

You used him applying submission holds as some sort of example. I said that's not all he does and that you had no point there. Whether you choose to see that as calling your entire point shite or not is completely up to yourself.

Oh I see. Is he not renowned for applying submission holds then?

If you genuinely believe this then you don't have a clue what you're on about, TBH.

I hate to sound smarky as it's not usually in my nature, but if you don't think DB is a good or entertaining wrestler, go and have a look at some of his ROH stuff during his title run. The fact of the matter is that he could wrestle a plank of wood and make it look good.

For the record, you're not wrong because you don't find him entertaining, you're wrong because you're questioning his wrestling ability. Obviously you're part of the 'I have an opinion and it's my opinion and you're out of order for saying it might be wrong' brigade, going by your last little dummy spitting post directed at DomDom.

I haven't seen any ROH stuff. I'm going by what I've seen of him in the WWE, none of which has been entertaining. I'm not questioning his wrestling ability at all. I'm questioning his ability to entertain. As for that last part of your post, about me being in some brigade, dummy spitting and what not... Nonsense. I've given loads of opinions on this site in the past on loads of varying topics. Some of my opinions will be agreed with and some not, I'm really not fussed. My main point of this discussion is that Bryan is a shit WHC, because so far he's offered nothing but filler time on WWE.

[bkay]

Writing off Bryan as a champion allready. How about we see what he does with it?

[#Gary]

Daniel Bryan being the World Champion really isn't any worse than the likes of Mysterio, Hardy, and Swagger holding the title. Sure, he's not the most charismatic guy in the world but I think people are overly harsh on him in that aspect.

Edited December 20, 2011 by Rudy

[DomDom]

Oh I see. Is he not renowned for applying submission holds then?

In WWE, sure, he's been called a submission specialist, but it's clear from his matches that it's not even close to being all he has. That'd be like saying Chris Benoit only ever put on submissions, but the reality was always very different.

My main point of this discussion is that Bryan is a shit WHC, because so far

he's offered nothing but filler time on WWE.

THIS, however, is a much fairer point. How many matches did Daniel Bryan lose in the weeks before TLC. Before the four way, he was being beaten by people nowhere near the WHC spot. The only way this can be credible is if Daniel Bryan loses the title in quick order, because why are we supposed to believe he has what it takes to hold onto that belt? His main challengers are bound to be Henry and Show. He was in the midcard losing week after week. So was Punk before his first reign, and that went very well for him... not.

[banterman86]

THIS, however, is a much fairer point. How many matches did Daniel Bryan lose in the weeks before TLC. Before the four way, he was being beaten by people nowhere near the WHC spot. The only way this can be credible is if Daniel Bryan loses the title in quick order, because why are we supposed to believe he has what it takes to hold onto that belt? His main challengers are bound to be Henry and Show. He was in the midcard losing week after week. So was Punk before his first reign, and that went very well for him... not.

he could go all macbeth and have the belt slowly turn him heel, as he gets more and more desperate to hold onto it

Start with fluke wins over show and henry, count outs and roll ups were he plays a classic face in distress

Then questionable wins in terms of cheating,

Before he full on blows and tries to injure folk before matches, and is hyped up as a submission specialist, by which time he;s held the belt for a period and can unveil the "best in the wolrd" type character from his RoH days

I always liked the idea of a belt "corrupting" a face during their reign, I can't think of a good example

[DomDom]

he could go all macbeth and have the belt slowly turn him heel, as he gets more

and more desperate to hold onto it

Start with fluke wins over show and

henry, count outs and roll ups were he plays a classic face in

distress

Then questionable wins in terms of cheating,

Before he

full on blows and tries to injure folk before matches, and is hyped up as a

submission specialist, by which time he;s held the belt for a period and can

unveil the "best in the wolrd" type character from his RoH days

I wouldn't even allow the fluke wins. Go right to the cheating, as if he knows that's what it's going to take to hold onto his belt. Doesn't make sense for him to resort to cheating if he can win.

It would be great to see Daniel Bryan bring the crazy eyes and the "fucking head kicking" into WWE. He has that next level in him. It took WWE a long time to see it in CM Punk before unleashing the Straight Edge gimmick, and it might well be the same here.

[DomDom]

WWE The Ladder Match 2: Crash and Burn Disc 3

And so it ends. I've kinda enjoyed what I've seen so far, but this is the disc I've been looking forward to, as it basically begins where the first part ends, and it's also the longest disc, which means we could be seeing a good bit of action, and not many of the recent times ladder matches have disappointed. What can go wrong?

Edge vs. The Undertaker, TLC Match - World Heavyweight Championship - WWE One Night Stand 2008 ( **** )

Chris Jericho © vs. Shawn Michaels - World Heavyweight Championship - WWE No Mercy 2008 ( ****1/2 )

Money in the Bank Ladder Match - WWE Wrestlemania 23 ( ***1/2 )

RAW Money in the Bank Ladder Match - WWE Money in the Bank 2010 ( ***3/4 )

Sheamus vs. John Morrison - WWE Tables, Ladders and Chairs 2010 ( ****1/4 )

Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian - WWE Extreme Rules 2011 ( ****1/2 )

Edge vs. The Undertaker, TLC Match - World Heavyweight Championship - WWE One Night Stand 2008

They were billing The Undertaker as some kind of underdog for this match, but really. Was anyone ever going to buy into that? Edge walks right into the Big Boot of Taker and then right hands from Taker in the corner. Headbutts over and over from Taker and then Edge into the corner and a Clothesline from Taker. More right hands now in the corner from Taker and a Headbutt in there. He then chokes Edge in the corner, and lets him go. Why not just choke him out and go for the belt? OLD SCHOOL FROM TAKER !!! Running Big Boot from Taker sends Edge down. Taker then heads for the floor and gets a ladder. Edge then Dropkicks the ladder into Taker. Edge then heads to the floor and he gets a table ready and also sets another table up on top of that one. Taker is now bringing another ladder into things. Edge walks right into the ladder shot from Taker. Another ladder shot right to the chin of Edge. Edge slammed face first into the steps now and Taker looks at the table stack. Taker then stacks more tables at the stack that's still standing. Drop Toe Hold sends Taker face first into the steps. Edge runs around the ring and he gets another ladder and sends it into the ring. Edge is now going for the gold and the fans clearly don't want to see this. Taker throws Edge off of the ladder and into the top rope. Taker now has the ladder set in the corner face into the ring. Edge into the corner and then Taker with the Snake Eyes, but Edge blocks and sends Taker into the ladder face first. Edge heads for the floor and he gets a ladder and sends it into the ring. He has another ladder facing the ring on top. Edge gets whipped face first into that. Taker then sends another ladder into the ring and then sets it up and he is now going for the belt. Edge now climbs the other side and both men are battling up there. EDGE AND TAKER BOTH SEND EACH OTHER INTO THE LADDERS IN THE OPPOSITE CORNERS !!! Foley does a great job on commentary putting over Taker. Snake Eyes on the ladder from Taker and some good little twists to the usual Undertaker stuff in this match so far. BIG BOOT SENDS THE LADDER INTO THE FACE OF EDGE !!! Ouch. Taker then heads for the floor and grabs a chair and this is the first time we've seen a chair in the match. BRUTAL chair shot to the back from Taker. Taker is having a look at the big ladder and then sends Edge into the ring and has the head draped over the apron. Taker goes for his Leg Drop on the apron, and Edge lifts the chair and Taker hits it. Edge then with the chair to the leg on the Taker. Edge now has the massive ladder and makes the ladder bridge, and surely he knows that this never ends well for him. Edge avoids the Last Ride and goes to the low blow on Taker. Taker sells that like an absolute trooper. CHAIR TO THE HEAD FROM EDGE TO TAKER !!! Edge now has another table set up on the outside. EDGE WITH ANOTHER CHAIR SHOT TO THE HEAD ON TAKER !!! Edge then puts Taker on the table on the floor. BODY SPLASH OFF OF THE ANNOUNCE TABLE THROUGH THE TABLE !!! Cole tries to pass it off as a Frog Splash. Not quite. I like how Edge is just always thinking in the match of ways to constantly hurt Taker. Edge now sets up the ladder again and heads for the gold. Taker stops him and pushes him down. THE SPEAR FROM EDGE !!! Edge now knocks down the ladder and puts the leg of Taker in the ladder and slams the ladder down on the leg. Edge now sets the table. Edge then smashes the ladder with a chair over and over again. Edge now sends a huge ladder into the ring and sets it up. TWO MORE CHAIR SHOTS TO THE HEAD OF TAKER !!! Edge now heads for the floor and gets another chair. THE ONE MAN CON-CHAIR-TO ... TAKER WITH THE LOW BLOW !!! Taker pulls himself to his feet and he now tries to bring himself back into the match. Both men now on the apron and Taker has Edge. CHOKESLAM OFF OF THE APRON INTO THE LADDER BRIDGE ON EDGE !!! That is some sick as f**k brutality there. Hawkins and Ryder now hit the ring and then one of them heads out and grabs a table and then they send tables into the ring. Table is now getting set up and they want to punish Taker here. Taker comes back. TAKER SENDS HAWKINS OFF OF THE TOP ROPE THROUGH THE TABLE ON THE FLOOR WITH A CHOKESLAM !!! HOLY SHIT !!! CHOKESLAM OFF OF THE APRON THROUGH A TABLE FOR RYDER !!! Edge then comes into the ring and sends Taker slamming into the wall. Edge then sets the ladder stacking in the ring up again. One of the tables looks like it's fucked. Taker into the ring and Edge is going for the gold. Taker then goes up with Edge. LAST RIDE OFF OF THE LADDER THROUGH TWO TABLES FROM TAKER TO EDGE !!! Bam and Chavo then attack Taker. Chavo now has a pair of chairs. CON-CHAIR-TO ... MISSES !!! CHAIR TO THE HEAD OF BOTH BAM AND CHAVO !!! Taker is going for the gold and Edge is back up. TAKER TAKES THE BIG BUMP FROM THE LADDER TO THE TABLES ON THE FLOOR !!! I'll be honest, I thought it was Edge that took that bump. Edge is now going for the gold as Taker is seemingly out of it. EDGE WINS !!!

With The Undertaker in there, you can't exactly expect a thrill-a-minute spotfest kind of match, so there's a LOT of downtime in the match. They went with a nice sort of heel/face formula match though, so there was some good drama to the match, and it felt like something epic. Edge bumps like a maniac and even Ryder and Hawkins add to the cause with some mental stuff. Was there any need for all of the interference on behalf of Edge? ****

Chris Jericho © vs. Shawn Michaels - World Heavyweight Championship - WWE No Mercy 2008

This match is one that stands out from a lot of modern day ladder matches in that it doesn't focus on the spots, and focuses on the brutality. The fans are hot and they want an HBK win here. Lockup and a Headlock from HBK and then he goes to the Hammerlock. Reversal from Jericho and HBK hits the ropes. He drops behind and goes for the Superkick and Jericho avoids it. HBK with chops in the corner. HBK misses a charge and hits the ringpost. Northern Lights Suplex from Jericho and then some more reversals. Clothesline sends HBK to the apron. Springboard Shoulder Block to the apron from Jericho. Jericho with stomps to HBK and then face first into the apron goes the veteran. HBK runs up the ladder on the floor and dives onto Jericho and lands some right hands. HBK then gets sent into the ringpost and Jericho gets a ladder and takes it to the ringside area. Drop Toe Hold from HBK and Jericho's face lands on the ladder. HBK goes and gets another ladder and then Jericho grabs him. WALLS OF JERICHO ON THE FLOOR FROM JERICHO !!! Jericho then with a stomp and he sends a ladder into the ring. HBK see saws the ladder into the face of Jericho. HBK then sends the ladder into the ring and sets it up and he looks like he wants to go for the title. Jericho stops him and they fight on there. Both men now down to the mat and Jericho throws HBK onto the ladder but he catches on and goes for the belt, so Jericho pushes the ladder down and HBK bounces off of the top rope. Jericho now with the ladder and he runs it into the gut and then THROWS it onto the back of HBK. Jericho heads for the floor now and gets another ladder and brings it into the ring. He props it in the corner. Kick to the gut from Jericho and then he sends HBK into the corner. HBK throws Jericho into the ladder and then HBK throws the ladder back with Jericho still in it, and that injures the knee. HBK then drops the knee of Jericho on the ladder. HBK then props the ladder horizontally on the bottom rope and drops the knee of Jericho on it. FIGURE FOUR LEGLOCK FROM HBK !!! Jericho counters and HBK lets go. BRUTAL KICK TO SEND THE LADDER INTO THE FACE OF HBK !!! That looked absolutely vicious there from Jericho. He now has HBK and catapults him into the ladder. The brutality is beginning to step up a wee bit. Head first into the ladder goes HBK and now Jericho is planning something. JERICHO THEN BRINGS THE LADDER DOWN ON THE FACE OF HBK !!! Jericho now sets up the ladder and goes for the belt and HBK is getting back up and he is now looking for something. HBK pushes and Jericho lands on his feet and kicks down HBK and Jericho decides to try and do more to HBK and props the ladder in the corner facing the ring. Right hands from Jericho and then he rakes the eye. JERICHO GETS THROWN ONTO THE LADDER !!! Jericho craches to the floor and HBK suddenly has a chance and the fans recognize this. HBK DROPS THE LADDER OVER THE TOP ROPE AND DOWN ONTO JERICHO !!! HBK then heads for the floor and he seems adament to do more damage. HBK then sets up another ladder and he then gets the Smackdown table ready for business. HBK then puts Jericho on the table and he is now going to unleash something here. Jericho is stirring though and HBK doesn't realise. BOTH MEN CRASH OFF OF THE LADDER AND THROUGH THE TABLE !!! Jericho then heads back to the ring and gets in. HBK is the same and he has a ladder. Jericho with the Dropkick and he sends the ladder right into HBK from that. HBK blocks a Superplex from the ladder. HBK PUSHES JERICHO BACK ON THE LADDER !!! THE FLYING ELBOW OFF THE TOP FROM HBK !!! HBK is now trying to set up for the end. THE SWEET CHIN MUSIC FROM HBK ... JERICHO COUNTERS WITH THE LADDER TO THE HEAD OF HBK !!! Jericho then puts the ladder on HBK. THE LIONSAULT FROM JERICHO TO THE LADDER ON HBK !!! Jericho then sets the ladder up over HBK and he is gonna climb and go for the gold. HBK DUMPS JERICHO OFF OF THE LADDER OVER THE TOP ROPE AND TO THE FLOOR !!! HBK now sets up the ladder and he is now going for the gold and the fans are right behind him here. HBK IS RIGHT THERE AND HAS HIS HANDS ON THE BELT !!! JERICHO PUSHES AND HBK WINDS UP CROTCHED ON THE TOP ROPE !!! Jericho is now going for the gold. Jericho and HBK are now going to do battle on the top of the ladder. HBK is getting the better of the battle here. JERICHO IS HUNG UP !!! Lance Cade then runs into the ring and he tries to get HBK down. He does and HBK dives on Cade. SWEET CHIN MUSIC FROM HBK !!! JERICHO IS NEARLY GRABBING THE BELT !!! THERE'S A TUG OF WAR FOR THE GOLD !!! HBK HEADBUTTS THE GOLD BY MISTAKE AND JERICHO WINS !!!

Where this match gets it's praise is the pure brutality of it, and people are right to appreciate it, because it's absolute madness really. It's one of the very few ladder matches where it's more about the hate than it is about the big moves that they do. There IS some big moves, but they never sacrifice the main goal of the match in order to have them, which is crucial. The big moves were nasty vicious things. ****1/2

Money in the Bank Ladder Match - WWE Wrestlemania 23

Everyone goes after Henry and Kane and that doesn't appear to work so well for them. Henry and Kane are left in the ring. Into the corner and Henry with a forearm. The Avalanche in the corner from Henry and then Christian and Shelton go to work on Henry and Kane. Kofi jumps over the ladder and lands a Dropkick. BOOM BOOM DROP ON BOTH MEN AND THE LADDER !!! Kofi now sets up the ladder and Finlay stops him and throws him out. Big Boot from Kane to Finlay and now Henry and Kane are climbing the ladder. Everyone else is now in the ring stopping both men from making the climb. Kane then sent out of the ring and Henry is sent out as well. Everyone is now climbing the ladder. Kane and Henry then come back into the ring and part the ladders and go back to work on each other. Kane with the Big Boot to Henry and then he is going for the case. Henry is back in the ring and down goes Kane and he crashes into the top rope. Henry tries to behead Finlay and then he walks into the Dropkick. SUICIDE DIVE FROM FINLAY TO KANE AND SHELTON !!! CHRISTIAN WITH THE SPRINGBOARD PLANCHA ONTO FINLAY AND KANE !!! BALLIN' CANNONBALL FROM MVP !!! KOFI AND PUNK WITH STEREO SUICIDE DIVES ONTO THEM !!! While all of this is going on, Shelton is climbing a MASSIVE ladder on the aisle. SHELTON WITH A MASSIVE SOMERSAULT PLANCHA OFF OF THE LADDER ONTO EVERYONE !!! Henry has a look down at this and decides that he is going to dive and the fans are excited. Finlay stops that and Hornswoggle then brings in the small ladder and he wants Finlay to climb. Finlay decides to give it to him and he heads up. HORNSWOGGLE WITH THE TADPOLE SPLASH ONTO EVERYONE !!! Finlay then with the small ladder to the face of Henry and then he heads for the floor and sends it into the ring. Kofi comes into the ring and is sent into the corner where Finlay lands a shoulder. Finlay with a kick through the rungs and then Kofi drops the ladder on the head of Finlay. KOFI JUMPS RIGHT INTO THE LADDER SHOT FROM FINLAY !!! ROLLING SAMOAN DROP FROM FINLAY TO PUNK ON THE SMALL LADDER !!! Finlay with another couple of shots to other guys and then he sets up the ladder and goes for the case again. TROUBLE IN PARADISE SENDS HIM OFF OF THE LADDER !!! Kofi is now going for the gold. Henry then simply pushes the ladder down and lands a headbutt and gets the ladder. KOFI RUNS UP THE LADDER WHILE HENRY HOLDS IT !!! HENRY BRINGS HIM DOWN AND LANDS A WORLD'S STRONGEST SLAM ON THE LADDER !!! Henry is now going for the case and MVP stops that and bridges the middle of the ladder with the top rope. MVP is going for the case and Shelton is now in there. Shelton avoids the shot. SHELTON COMES OFF OF THE LADDER BRIDGE AND JUMPS RIGHT INTO THE POWERBOMB FROM MVP !!! Punk is now in there and he is trying for the case. Christian is trying to stop him and Punk kicks him down. Christian back onto the ladder and both men now do battle. THE UNPRETTIER OFF OF THE LADDER FROM CHRISTIAN !!! Shelton with a Spin Kick to the face of Kane and now he somehow finds his way into the ring and onto the ladder. THE SUNSET BOMB FROM SHELTON ... that gets botched. POWERBOMB OVER THE TOP FROM SHELTON TO HENRY AND ATLAS !!! That looked like a hellacious spot there. Finlay now back into the ring and we have yet more madness here. FINLAY FALLS FROM THE LADDER INTO THE LADDER BRIDGE !!! Christian is now back in the ring. Shelton sets a ladder next to his and both men are now fighting to the top. SHELTON FALLS TO THE FLOOR AND CHRISTIAN HOLDS ON AND GOES FOR THE CASE !!! Punk springs onto the ladder and lands some right hands. PUNK IS NOW TRAPPED IN THE LADDER AND CHRISTIAN GOES FOR IT !!! Kane is now in there. THE CHOKESLAM SENDS DOWN CHRISTIAN !!! Kane is now going for the case and Punk is trying to kick his way to success. HE SUCCEEDS !!! PUNK GRABS THE CASE !!!

This was pure spotfest stuff and it lacked pacing at times which didn't help things. There's still a lot of fun to be had here though. ***1/2

RAW Money in the Bank Ladder Match - WWE Money in the Bank 2010

The key thing here is that they have skipped the god awful battle between DX and Jerishow from TLC 2009 to come to this bad boy. Edge heads to the floor and now we have a mass fight over the ladder. They then realise that going after Henry is the way to go here. Headbutt from Henry and then Miz hits him with his Clothesline. Bourne with a big knee to Orton and a Dropkick to Henry. Edge now sets a ladder up in the ring and he goes for the case and Orton is in the ring and he stops that. Orton kicks Edge out and lands some right hands. Dibiase is now in the ring and Morrison is in there with him. Forearm from Morrison and he hits the ropes. Clothesline lands Morrison back first on the ladder. Dibiase knocks Orton from the apron, and then Bourne with a Dropkick. Miz into the ring and he dumps Bourne to the floor. Jericho is now in the ring with Miz and he rams him into the corner. Jericho now has the ladder and Miz with some shots to the back. Ladder is propped in the corner. Henry then throws a ladder at Jericho and Miz. Henry then drops his weight down on the neck of Miz. Jericho drops the ladder on Henry and then Bourne catches Jericho. Bourne is now going for the case. Edge catches him and gets sent to the floor. In comes Orton. ORTON WITH THE HANGING DDT ON BOURNE !!! Morrison into the ring. FLASH KICK FROM MORRISON !!! Dibiase comes into the ring now and then Miz stops the move from Morrison and Dibiase joins him in beating on Morrison. Miz then gets dropped on the ladder, as does Dibiase. Morrison then sets the ladder up and decides to go for the case. Morrison is now going for the case. Edge is now in the ring and he goes for Morrison here. Right hand from Edge and then in comes Jericho and he has a ladder as well. Jericho is coming in and then Orton comes in as well and we have quite the battle going on here now. Henry pushes both pairs down. Maryse now comes into the ring when Henry is sent to the floor. Maryse is now going for the case and Morrison comes into the ring and tells her to get down. Morrison then orders her out of the ring and Dibiase comes in and tries for it. Dibiase sent into the ladder and then he is sent into the barrier. Miz then hits Morrison with the ladder and now he has the ladder propped on the ringpost on the outside. Morrison then climbs the post ladder and then finds his way onto the ladder in the middle of the ring. Edge is knocked down and then Edge tries to drag Morrison down and eventually does. Morrison is trapped in the ladder and they give him a doing with another ladder there. EDGE PUSHES THE LADDER DOWN AND THE LADDER BOUNCES ON THE ROPES !!! That HAD to hurt. Edge then goes for it, but Dibiase drops the ladder on his gut and then sets the ladder in the upside down position. Dibiase then brings another ladder into the ring and hits Orton with it. Henry comes in. WORLD'S STRONGEST SLAM ON DIBIASE !!! Miz is then dropped on Jericho and a ladder by Henry and he decides to go for the case. Bourne almost has the case but he gets stopped. They throw Bourne out. WORLD'S STRONGEST SLAM ON THE FLOOR FROM HENRY !!! CODEBREAKER FROM JERICHO TO HENRY !!! THE SPEAR FROM EDGE TO HENRY !!! The battle for the case will now continue. Dibiase now has a ladder bridge made in the ring and someone lands face first on it. Dibiase is laid on a ladder. DIBIASE IS SLID TO THE FLOOR BY ORTON AND EDGE !!! THE RKO FROM ORTON TO EDGE !!! Morrison and Jericho are now going for the case. Morrison is going for the case. RKO FROM ORTON TO JERICHO !!! AIR BOURNE ONTO ORTON !!! Evan Bourne then goes for the case. BOURNE HAS THE CASE IN HIS HAND !!! JERICHO WITH THE LOW BLOW !!! CASE TO THE HEAD OF BOURNE !!! Jericho is now on the ladder on his own and Edge is stirring on the floor. Edge is in the ring and he goes at it with Jericho. RKO OFF OF THE LADDER ON JERICHO !!! EDGE GETS SENT ONTO THAT UPSIDE DOWN LADDER !!! Orton is now going for the case. MIZ PUSHES THE LADDER DOWN AND GOES FOR THE CASE !!! THE MIZ WINS !!!

I didn't realise how much non-action was going on in this match. It made the big stretch of carnage mean that much more though. It's another in a long line of entertaining MitB matches. ***3/4

Sheamus vs. John Morrison - WWE Tables, Ladders and Chairs 2010

Lockup and a Headlock Takedown and Side Headlock from Sheamus and Morrison battles back to his feet. Sheamus charges down Morrison. Kick to the gut from Sheamus and then he sends Morrison into the barrier and then he looks at the massive ladder on the floor and makes a ladder bridge between the announce table and the ring apron. Morrison slides under the ladder and then he lands some kicks and right hands. Morrison then charges Sheamus into the barrier. Morrison then gets another ladder, but Sheamus catches him before he can take it into the ring. Sheamus dumps Morrison over the barrier and then Morrison comes off the barrier with a big move and into the ring he goes with the ladder and he is going to go for the contract. Sheamus stops Morrison and then charges him into the corner. Sheamus then gets pulled into the ladder. LEAPFROG SPINNING CROSS BODY FROM MORRISON OVER THE LADDER !!! Kick from Morrison and then more of the same and he sends the big Irishman out of the ring. Morrison goes for the contract and Sheamus catches him and traps him in the ladder. Kicks to Morrison who is in the tree of woe. MORRISON IS DROPPED FACE FIRST BACKWARDS BY SHEAMUS !!! Sheamus is then going to work on Morrison. Sheamus then drops the ladder on the leg of Morrison and he is really laying on a beating here. Sheamus is now going for the contract and Morrison stops him, so Sheamus opts to just stomp on him. Sheamus then drops the knee of Morrison on the ladder. Right hands and forearms from Sheamus and then he is back up. Morrison is fighting his way back, but Sheamus opts to just kick the leg and that puts an end to the comeback. Sheamus then uses the ladder and catches the knee of Morrison in it and rams it against the canvas. This is some vicious stuff here from Sheamus. Sheamus gets another ladder and they fight over it. Sheamus just throws Morrison down and then props the ladder in the corner. Body Slam sends the knees of Morrison into the ladder. Sheamus is now going for the contract and Morrison is battling to his feet. Morrison then throws the ladder at Sheamus. Both men now bring ladders into the ring and lets see what happens here. They collide in the middle of the ring. MORRISON THROWS THE LADDER TO THE HEAD OF SHEAMUS !!! Morrison now has the ladder horizontal in the corner on the middle rope. Sheamus is then dropped on the ladder. SHEAMUS IS CROTCHED ON THE LADDER !!! The Clothesline sends Sheamus to the floor and the fans are wanting to see Morrison climb. Morrison then drops a ladder on top of Sheamus and gets the one out of the corner and he is going for the contract. Morrison is using one leg and both arms here and he is going for the contract. SHEAMUS WITH THE CYCLE KICK TO THE KNEE OF MORRISON AND HE COMES OFF THE LADDER !!! Morrison is then sent out of the ring and Sheamus is now going for the contract. Morrison is now climbing and he lands some forearms. Morrison with the Rana sends Sheamus over the top rope and all of a sudden he has a chance to go for it. MORRISON HAS HIS HANDS ON THE CONTRACT !!! SHEAMUS COMES IN AND PUSHES THE LADDER DOWN AND MORRISON LANDS ON THE TOP ROPE !!! Morrison is dumped over the top rope by Sheamus. There's now a battle over the ladder bridge. MORRISON FLIES AND SENDS SHEAMUS THROUGH THE LADDER !!! MORRISON IS GOING FOR THE CONTRACT !!! SHEAMUS IS BACK IN THE RING !!! SHEAMUS IS THE FUCKING TERMINATOR !!! MORRISON COMES OFF WITH A KICK !!! MORRISON WINS THE MATCH !!!

This was very formula one on one match style here. Very good stuff. They even had the big nearfalls the longer it went on which was pleasant and then there was the big ending spot which seen enough done. Very good. ****1/4

Alberto Del Rio vs. Christian - World Heavyweight Championship - WWE Extreme Rules 2011

Christian opens with the right hands and we're getting going here. Kicks to the knee and head from Rio and then he goes to the Front Facelock. Running Back Elbow from Christian and then he heads for the floor and gets stopped. Body Slam from Rio and he goes for the floor and Christian stops him. Christian then chokes Rio over the top rope. Back Body Drop from Christian and then he goes to the middle buckle. Leaping European Uppercut from Christian and then he goes and gets a ladder. He seems to be setting it up on the floor for something. Christian then gets sent into the ringpost. Kicks to the head from Rio. Rio then chucks Christian under the ring and he now goes and gets another ladder. Christian comes out the other side and Dropkicks the ladder into the chest of Rio. Into the ring with the ladder now. Christian now heads for the belt and Rio stops him and brings him down onto his knee. Rio goes for it and he gets pushed down too, but then he lands the Enziguri. Rio unleahes more stomps and kicks to the head. Christian then with a shot to the throat and then he dumps Rio over the top rope. Rio sweeps down Christian who lands face first on the ladder and then sends him into the steps and then we see the usual ladder bridge here. Christian blocks a Suplex and then he tries the catapult, but then gets kicked into the steps again and Rio with more kicks. Christian slides under the ladder and hits the face of Rio off of the apron and now he has Rio set up. Christian heads for the top rope. Rio pushes Christian onto the ladder. Cross Body off of the ladder from Christian onto Rio. Christian sends the ladder into the ring now and Rio comes in and stops him from going for the gold there. Knee to the gut and right hands from Christian. Rio avoids the slam. KILLSWITCH FROM CHRISTIAN ... avoided and Christian lands a Flapjack into the ladder. Christian lands a ladder shot and sends Rio to the floor and he has a chance here. Christian is now going for the belt. Rio throws a smaller ladder at the back of Christian and then sets it up. THE DOUBLE KNEE ARMBREAKER OFF OF THE LADDER FROM RIO !!! Rio with more right hands. Rio then goes to the Arm Bar. Christian fights out but then gets sent into the ladder. Rio then drops the smaller ladder down on the gut of Christian. Rio then props the ladder in the corner and then pushes Christian into the ladder. Rio then gets sent into the ladder. Christian is now going for the belt and Rio is stopping him. Rio is sent onto the apron and then he gets a shot on Christian and he tries to bring Christian over the top rope with the Suplex. BACK BODY DROP ON THE LADDER IN THE RING FROM CHRISTIAN !!! Christian now props the ladder in the corner. Rio runs up and lands the Enziguri. CHRISTIAN FALLS OFF THE TOP ROPE AND ONTO THE LADDER !!! Rio is going for the belt. He climbs and Christian catches him and pushes him down and Rio kicks him down, and Rio has looked excellent here. Rio kicks Christian to the floor. Ricardo now has a chair and wants Rio to use it. Rio then gets sent head first into the ringpost out of nowhere. CHRISTIAN WITH THE SPEAR ON RIO !!! Christian is heading for the belt now and Rio has Christian trapped and is going for the belt. Rio lands on his feet again but he is tired and winds up on his arse. Rio then kicks the smaller ladder into Christian. Christian is now laid on the ladder and Rio heads up. RIO WITH THE BIG ELBOW DROP OFF OF THE TOP ROPE BUT CHRISTIAN MOVES AND RIO JUST CRASHES INTO THE LADDER !!! CHRISTIAN IS UP THERE !!! BRODUS IS HERE !!! CHRISTIAN WIPES OUT BRODUS !!! RIO GETS THE CROSS ARMBREAKER AND THE ARM OF CHRISTIAN IS TRAPPED IN THE LADDER !!! RIO IS ON TOP AND EDGE IS HERE !!! CHRISTIAN PUSHES RIO OUT ONTO HIS BUDDIES AND CHRISTIAN IS GOING FOR THE GOLD !!! CHRISTIAN WINS THE BELT !!!

That is an absolutely amazing moment right there, and it's an absolutely amazing match. I always worry about how a match this good at the time will be on repeat viewing and there is absolutely no problems here. ****1/2

That final disc was terrific stuff. The whole set is a bit of a disappointment untill we get to here.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

Just finished watching RAW. I hadn't read anything on here since before TLC until now.

i think the reason Bryan lost regularly in the weeks before TLC was so that it would have been as big a shock as it was. I liked, as I tend to like things that aren't telegraphed weeks in advance.

I reckon Bryan has to be given at least a few weeks before being written off. I mean I think it's a weird one but I'll see how he does before deciding whether it's a good decision.

I though TLC was good and Raw was half way decent. Cannot wait for the Rumble now.

[Parscelona]

I think Daniel Bryan is slightly over-rated, sure the guy may have been very impressive in ROH, yet that doesn't mean you deserve to be a champion in the WWE. The WWE is the major leagues, it's not the indies and during Bryan's time, i've not seen enough to suggest that he's World Championship material.

The only time that he's been interesting was when he attacked Michael Cole on NXT, yet apart from that he's been a mid-carder who hasn't done very much. His ring work gets praised a lot, although the better matches in WWE this year have been ones that haven't involved Bryan.

Rudy made the point about him not being any worse than Mysterio and Hardy, i would argue that he is, as unlike Bryan, these two are (or were in Hardy's case) very over with the crowd and as a result raked in some cash.

Also, he's nothing like CM Punk, he isn't entertaining, he won't be a money maker for the WWE and he isn't a convincing champion.

The guy has been jobbing a lot lately, so how the WWE are going to make him a a believable champion against Big Show i'll never know.

[jay_7]

In WWE, sure, he's been called a submission specialist, but it's clear from his matches that it's not even close to being all he has. That'd be like saying Chris Benoit only ever put on submissions, but the reality was always very different.

Ah but Chris Benoit was entertaining. There be the difference. I've watched a few of the "Bryan Danielson Top Moments" videos on YouTube and I do now see potential. Why the WWE have not brought any of the kerbstomping, or his better moves from ROH is a mystery. The way things stand right now though, Bryan in WWE is far from entertaining.

THIS, however, is a much fairer point. How many matches did Daniel Bryan lose in the weeks before TLC. Before the four way, he was being beaten by people nowhere near the WHC spot. The only way this can be credible is if Daniel Bryan loses the title in quick order, because why are we supposed to believe he has what it takes to hold onto that belt? His main challengers are bound to be Henry and Show. He was in the midcard losing week after week. So was Punk before his first reign, and that went very well for him... not.

Unless he turns heel and cheats an awful lot, his reign has to end pretty soon. Show looked like he was trying to keep his cool while teetering on the edge of breaking point and Henry will be due a rematch too.

[banterman86]

Unless he turns heel and cheats an awful lot, his reign has to end pretty soon. Show looked like he was trying to keep his cool while teetering on the edge of breaking point and Henry will be due a rematch too.

It doesn;t have to, good booking could be "guy wins belt on fluke, proves himself worthy with a series of ever incrreasingly impressive wins". i;d prefer crazy demeneted heel but still