Livingston - all the threads merged

[ATLIS]

Only just noticed John Ward seems to have had a big night on twitter (+ a few tweets from days ago):



Zero to little chance of Martindale going then, so we better get comfortable.



Big emphasis on the court case that is coming up.



Offer was made to Danny Wilson around the same numbers QP offered but Wilson 'wasn't up for the fight'. Names those lodging legal action against the club as Buerskens, Rankine, Summner and Hogarth. 



In relation to QP with owners, again relating to those listed above and the court cases.



This one comes across horribly, talking down to fans at this point for being frustrated at the football we've paid to watch.



In relation to a question about who's the one that would take the decision to sack DM.



In relation to any more pending court cases.

 

[Bairnardo]

17 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

 

[Freedom Farter]

19 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

Only just noticed John Ward seems to have had a big night on twitter (+ a few tweets from days ago):



Zero to little chance of Martindale going then, so we better get comfortable.



Big emphasis on the court case that is coming up.



Offer was made to Danny Wilson around the same numbers QP offered but Wilson 'wasn't up for the fight'. Names those lodging legal action against the club as Buerskens, Rankine, Summner and Hogarth. 



In relation to QP with owners, again relating to those listed above and the court cases.



This one comes across horribly, talking down to fans at this point for being frustrated at the football we've paid to watch.



In relation to a question about who's the one that would take the decision to sack DM.



In relation to any more pending court cases.

 

Thanks for compiling these screenshots as I wouldn't have seen it otherwise.

[Livi La Vida Loca]

I have to say those comments from Ward don't come across well at all for me. 

First of all I'm no legal expert but with impending court cases naming and to an extent shaming those taking you to court is a big no no. Just asking for more trouble IMO. 

Secondly the fans don't care comment has incensed me. Fans are not oblivious to the off field issues but what exactly are we supposed to do when there is no way for us to know exactly what's happening behind the scenes? I don't have the time or effort required to trawl through the internet looking at companies house or upcoming court cases and even if I did anything I find would not have all the details. Up until that statement the other week the clubs communication of issues has been non existent. Unless I missed it they haven't even acknowledged the fact that the takeover they announced has been blocked. 

I will accept the fan entitlement somewhat as it does amaze me how many of our fans don't realise just how little money we have and thus have unrealistic expectations to signings and league position however did Ward not admit that we actually budgeted for a top six finish one season and that very season our arse collapsed? I'll stand corrected if we didn't budget for it but if we did then fans have every right to be angry. 

In terms of our fan numbers the club has done a lot to try and build season tickets but surely they must realise that their lack of transparency with off field issues, Martindale constantly bemoaning/belittling the club and the somewhat poor product on the park will all put people off coming to games. 

The atmosphere at home has been more toxic than it should be but Martindale's media comments will only continue to fuel this toxicity until he gives it a rest with his continuous moaning. Sure create a siege mentality for your players and fans but don't mention the budget or how small the club is every single week. 

Edited February 1 by Livi La Vida Loca

[Durnford]

11 minutes ago, Livi La Vida Loca said:

I have to say those comments from Ward don't come across well at all for me. 

First of all I'm no legal expert but with impending court cases naming and to an extent shaming those taking you to court is a big no no. Just asking for more trouble IMO. 

Secondly the fans don't care comment has incensed me. Fans are not oblivious to the off field issues but what exactly are we supposed to do when there is no way for us to know exactly what's happening behind the scenes? I don't have the time or effort required to trawl through the internet looking at companies house or upcoming court cases and even if I did anything I find would not have all the details. Up until that statement the other week the clubs communication of issues has been non existent. Unless I missed it they haven't even acknowledged the fact that the takeover they announced has been blocked. 

I will accept the fan entitlement somewhat as it does amaze me how many of our fans don't realise just how little money we have and thus have unrealistic expectations to signings and league position however did Ward not admit that we actually budgeted for a top six finish one season and that very season our arse collapsed? I'll stand corrected if we didn't budget for it but if we did then fans have every right to be angry. 

In terms of our fan numbers the club has done a lot to try and build season tickets but surely they must realise that their lack of transparency with off field issues, Martindale constantly bemoaning/belittling the club and the somewhat poor product on the park will all put people off coming to games. 

The atmosphere at home has been more toxic than it should be but Martindale's media comments will only continue to fuel this toxicity until he gives it a rest with his continuous moaning. Sure create a siege mentality for your players and fans but don't mention the budget or how small the club is every single week. 

Agree with much of this; I suspect we may have seen another instance of it being unwise to turn to social media with a drink inside one,

Also think its unwise to mention the court cases at this stage, not for naming the protagonists but for suggesting they're committing fraud which may be true but, in the even that the court fount the case unproven, they could counter sue for slander.

The noise from the support is an off one; there was noise from around me but we could/should probably do more. I'm an old bugger and haven't really shouted at football since I was about forty (cup final against Hibs excepted) but maybe its time we all started shouting support. That being said the Pittman goal was an odd one; the players didn't come over to celebrate with the fans but the whole instance was embroiled with confusion and VAR i.e. was it offside or not. Obviously it wasn't but the moment had gone.

Not going to comment much on the budgets other than to say that personally I don't see how a club our size could possibly budget on a top size finish. Surely budget; facilities; squad sizes; injury recovery times etc. etc. puts us well down the pecking order. 

I do think a number of the management team should take a break from social media; I know some will put that down as a lack of transparency but using Martindale as an example; his repeated attempts to publicly try to sell players (e.g. Fitzwater; Nouble; Anderson etc.) has had an adverse effect on the players and the wider team. The Primark comment was also unnecessary as was the repeated comments about the budget. These comments do not motivate the fans, the player or even the wider public who you are hoping to entice to come to a game.

I get the feeling that Davie attends these interviews as if he's talking to a friend down the pub or wherever. The media is not his friend; even if the one asking the questions is. He has to understand his comments are going to be reprinted later.

If one of my PMs came to me and said he had a problem I wouldn't be impressed; If he came to me and said there was a problem but this was what he was going to do about it then he'd get my respect.

[LIVIFOREVER]

1 hour ago, Durnford said:

Agree with much of this; I suspect we may have seen another instance of it being unwise to turn to social media with a drink inside one,

Also think its unwise to mention the court cases at this stage, not for naming the protagonists but for suggesting they're committing fraud which may be true but, in the even that the court fount the case unproven, they could counter sue for slander.

The noise from the support is an off one; there was noise from around me but we could/should probably do more. I'm an old bugger and haven't really shouted at football since I was about forty (cup final against Hibs excepted) but maybe its time we all started shouting support. That being said the Pittman goal was an odd one; the players didn't come over to celebrate with the fans but the whole instance was embroiled with confusion and VAR i.e. was it offside or not. Obviously it wasn't but the moment had gone.

Not going to comment much on the budgets other than to say that personally I don't see how a club our size could possibly budget on a top size finish. Surely budget; facilities; squad sizes; injury recovery times etc. etc. puts us well down the pecking order. 

I do think a number of the management team should take a break from social media; I know some will put that down as a lack of transparency but using Martindale as an example; his repeated attempts to publicly try to sell players (e.g. Fitzwater; Nouble; Anderson etc.) has had an adverse effect on the players and the wider team. The Primark comment was also unnecessary as was the repeated comments about the budget. These comments do not motivate the fans, the player or even the wider public who you are hoping to entice to come to a game.

I get the feeling that Davie attends these interviews as if he's talking to a friend down the pub or wherever. The media is not his friend; even if the one asking the questions is. He has to understand his comments are going to be reprinted later.

If one of my PMs came to me and said he had a problem I wouldn't be impressed; If he came to me and said there was a problem but this was what he was going to do about it then he'd get my respect.

Yeah they restarted the game and the ref immediately stopped it for the restart not being taken properly (i think) and i heard some of our fans asking if our goal had stood or not, VAR has really fucked goal celebrations. Was the same for Murrays opener, he was running away celebrating, then stopped because of a VAR check for offside, that took ages. The stadium announcer didn't help either, don't think he announced our goal.

The Fans being given a dig is prob to the ones behind the manager's dugout being the most vocal towards Martindale, the DBM ones were still giving it plenty noise, and it was only after County scored i heard the odd shout from where i sit, behind the away dugout. They got drowned out when we got ourselves back in the game going into HT though.

At this point the fans are desperate for the players to give us a win and cheer them on, it's very fractious though, the second we go a goal down you hear the more toxic ones turn, and the majority go quiet because we're seeing another defeat coming. The players really need to lift the fans for them to get behind them.

[thruthenight]

That's Carson officially here. Seen him described as a 'Gives 100% every game, but not technically gifted' footballer, which might be exactly what we need

[Cptn Hooch]

13 minutes ago, thruthenight said:

That's Carson officially here. Seen him described as a 'Gives 100% every game, but not technically gifted' footballer, which might be exactly what we need

A slightly younger Scott Pittman?

[The Wrong Car]

Hard to tell what to make of this signing at this time

On the one hand the comment about him being best as a DM suggests he’s been brought into play a position we’re well covered for, without improving it

On the other, signing an experienced, but not past it, player early for the Championship makes sense. It’s the sort of signing we should have made last summer 

 

[Durnford]

Not convinced about Carson; doesn't seem to hold down a regular spot in what is effectively a very poor ICT side by championship standards.

Defensive midfield is also a position we're pretty well covered for unless we're looking at a mass walkout this summer.

TBH it does smell a bit of planning for mid table championship next year which isn't exactly inspiring.

 

EDIT - if I'm wrong and he comes in an plays a match winning blinder on Saturday I'll happily change my name to "Muppet". 

Edited February 1 by Durnford

[LiviLion]

If I'm getting Martindales thinking right, Carson being a defensive midfielder means he'll be playing centre back for us 

[Durnford]

14 minutes ago, LiviLion said:

If I'm getting Martindales thinking right, Carson being a defensive midfielder means he'll be playing centre back for us 

I just hope he'd bl00dy nippy. It what we really need right now

[Livi La Vida Loca]

18 minutes ago, LiviLion said:

If I'm getting Martindales thinking right, Carson being a defensive midfielder means he'll be playing centre back for us 

When was the last time we signed a player and Martindale didn't say something like "he can play in a number of positions" or "he's versatile"

On the signing itself my first reaction is that it's underwhelming however Shinnie & Sean Kelly are out of contract this summer and every possibility Stephen Kelly & Sangare might not be here either so very much could be a case of getting him in now with a view to next season. 

Hopefully he can bring some energy and defensive stability to the team. 

[LIVIFOREVER]

27 minutes ago, Durnford said:

Not convinced about Carson; doesn't seem to hold down a regular spot in what is effectively a very poor ICT side by championship standards.

Defensive midfield is also a position we're pretty well covered for unless we're looking at a mass walkout this summer.

TBH it does smell a bit of planning for mid table championship next year which isn't exactly inspiring.

 

EDIT - if I'm wrong and he comes in an plays a match winning blinder on Saturday I'll happily change my name to "Muppet". 

We can't seem to sign any first choice targets right enough, QP have beaten us to a few. 

[CharlieWhisky]

Sean Kelly wasn’t playing every week in League One for Falkirk but has played 55 games for us in the Premiership since joining - indeed he was voted by fans as our player of the month in October this season - so I’m not going to judge Carson exclusively based on where he’s come from. 
 

He fits the mold, solid and played plenty SPFL games. At 28 he might have an amazing season and manage to get a contract somewhere else on decent money to set him up for his next career.

[ICTChris]

2 hours ago, Durnford said:

Not convinced about Carson; doesn't seem to hold down a regular spot in what is effectively a very poor ICT side by championship standards.

He has generally started if he's been fit.  He was signed as a defensive midfielder and played there initially in his time with us but then moved to right back and has been succesful there as well, mainly playing there since 2021.  He did move back to midfield for the Scottish cup final last season, mainly as a spoiler and had a decent enough game, as well as you could expect.

I honestly don't know a great deal about Livi but Carson is the sort of player who could thrive in a relegation fight.  He's committed, hard working, puts in tackles and 100% all the time.  I wouldn't have said he has amazing ability but he's not some sort of complete hammer throwing clogger.  

[LIVIFOREVER]

9 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

He has generally started if he's been fit.  He was signed as a defensive midfielder and played there initially in his time with us but then moved to right back and has been succesful there as well, mainly playing there since 2021.  He did move back to midfield for the Scottish cup final last season, mainly as a spoiler and had a decent enough game, as well as you could expect.

I honestly don't know a great deal about Livi but Carson is the sort of player who could thrive in a relegation fight.  He's committed, hard working, puts in tackles and 100% all the time.  I wouldn't have said he has amazing ability but he's not some sort of complete hammer throwing clogger.  

Sounds like the sort of player we had getting us promoted, and in our first couple of seasons up. Shaun Byrne, Scott Pittman, Jason Holt type, spoilers that break up play and turn over possession. 

*edit to add, has he played in the Scottish cup for you this season, hopefully isn't cup tied for us playing Partick Thistle.

Edited February 1 by LIVIFOREVER

[JagsCG]

21 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

*edit to add, has he played in the Scottish cup for you this season, hopefully isn't cup tied for us playing Partick Thistle.

Carson played for ICT against Cowdenbeath and Broomhill in the Scottish Cup this season, so he won’t be available for the game at Firhill. 

[Freedom Farter]

Carson has exclusively played right back or right wing back this season since Duncan Ferguson became manager. Then the two seasons prior to this, under Dodds, Carson mostly played right back with only the occasional deployment at centre mid. We haven't seen Welch-Hayes at all recently so he could be either long term injured or due to depart. It's possible Carson has been brought in as a replacement there. 

I know Martindale has said he sees Carson as a defensive centre mid, though, and I hope that's the case as it's a position we're in far greater need of.

Edit: If Carson does provide further cover at right back, that'd free up Donnellan to concentrate on only playing centre back.

Edited February 1 by Freedom Farter

[CharlieWhisky]

I’m sure it said in one of the press articles (before the window opened) about us signing Donnellan that he was a replacement for Welch-Hayes who would be leaving imminently. Obviously hasn’t come to fruition.