Livingston - all the threads merged

[LIVIFOREVER]

8 minutes ago, Durnford said:

You disagree with someone that's fine; that's what discussion forums are all about; but why do you have to resort to petty and frankly childish insults?

You seem to have been registered on the forum for a while so, unless you registered whilst you were still potty training, I assume you are not a pubescent teenager wrapped up in anger and frustration.

If you want to defend the guy or criticise the way in which he left that's fine. I am sure there re many that would respect your stance.

You and Livi4Ever obviously have a history of animosity. I don't know the history and am frankly FAR too old to waste time trolling back through posts until it first started but PLEASE; PLEASE; PLEASE can you not both sort it out? PM each other or whatever. I don't always agree with Livi4Ever but leastways have learnt to respect his opinion or at least his right to hold one even if it is contrary to mine. Through all the anger you have also shown yourself to make some good points.

At the end of the day guys we're all Livi supporters and as such a relatively rare breed. Lets fight together rather than against each other.

Nothing to sort out, him and the other guy that makes multiple accounts are only interested in posting to slag Ward and Martindale off, so i've put them on ignore because it is tediously boring. Wouldn't see his posts if they weren't quoted and have no interest in them . Only people i've ever blocked are tedious c***s, with no interest in debate, Scrutinizer, being the other one. 

[Durnford]

1 hour ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Nothing to sort out, him and the other guy that makes multiple accounts are only interested in posting to slag Ward and Martindale off, so i've put them on ignore because it is tediously boring. Wouldn't see his posts if they weren't quoted and have no interest in them . Only people i've ever blocked are tedious c***s, with no interest in debate, Scrutinizer, being the other one. 

If that really the way of it maybe you should both be on each other's ignore lists.

As much as I can be irritated about LIVI's dog with a bone attitude; I also know that he was right about Massone when he was warning us all about him which was, I think a couple of years before Rankin even looked at Livingston FC.

[Durnford]

Anyway hypothetical question (actually highly hypothetical but there you go)

If we were to beat Celtic and Aberdeen and get a point against Hearts; would that change people's opinion about him needing to leave?

Personally I think his position became pretty much untenable after Motherwell defeat at home from one goal up

[LiviLion]

42 minutes ago, Durnford said:

Anyway hypothetical question (actually highly hypothetical but there you go)

If we were to beat Celtic and Aberdeen and get a point against Hearts; would that change people's opinion about him needing to leave?

Personally I think his position became pretty much untenable after Motherwell defeat at home from one goal up

Even if we got that string of very unlikely results - and Ross County lost to Aberdeen, Kilmarnock, and Rangers - that's still a 4 point gap going into the split.

Of course, off the back of a (hypothetical) run of form like that we'd have our tails up and be looking at beating County (which you'd think would be at home) and then picking up 2 points more than them from the remaining games, or just the 1 if we get a 10 goal swing to beat them on GD. I love getting carried away but even I'm not going to let my vulnerable little mind entertain the thought of us doing it.

To answer the question though, I think even if we were to stay up it would be despite him rather than thanks to him. Stubbornly sticking to tactics that clearly weren't working, his supposed* shouting back at fans, throwing players under the bus in interviews (doesn't make it any better because you use the words "I take responsibility"), the amount of players he falls out with, none of it really points towards a manager who will be universally loved by the fans. If we get 11 points between now and the end of the season, never mind 11 points MORE than Ross County, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

If he masterminds a comeback that then also sees us get through a playoff final, it would be the perfect "high" for him to sign off on. I don't think there's a realistic route for him to get back to the hero he was a couple years back.

 

*I sit in C2 so haven't witnessed any of this, just based on what people have said on here/Twitter/Facebook.

Edited March 19 by LiviLion

[Troy.1995]

6 hours ago, Livi La Vida Loca said:

I had noticed his absence recently and presumed he was on holiday or had other commitments. 

Would be very sad if he's been asked to step aside. 

Just to edit its Colin Young.Not Brown.28 years stadium announcer.Shame.I wish him well..

[LogieLivi]

30 minutes ago, Troy.1995 said:

Just to edit its Colin Young.Not Brown.28 years stadium announcer.Shame.I wish him well..

Colin is the longest serving stadium announcer in the UK. He was announcing at Meadowbank before the move to Livingston.

His, "Let's make all the noise" shout came from those days.

The Almondview Podcast did an interview with him and he discussed this in length.

[Durnford]

57 minutes ago, LiviLion said:

Even if we got that string of very unlikely results - and Ross County lost to Aberdeen, Kilmarnock, and Rangers - that's still a 4 point gap going into the split.

Of course, off the back of a (hypothetical) run of form like that we'd have our tails up and be looking at beating County (which you'd think would be at home) and then picking up 2 points more than them from the remaining games, or just the 1 if we get a 10 goal swing to beat them on GD. I love getting carried away but even I'm not going to let my vulnerable little mind entertain the thought of us doing it.

To answer the question though, I think even if we were to stay up it would be despite him rather than thanks to him. Stubbornly sticking to tactics that clearly weren't working, his supposed* shouting back at fans, throwing players under the bus in interviews (doesn't make it any better because you use the words "I take responsibility"), the amount of players he falls out with, none of it really points towards a manager who will be universally loved by the fans. If we get 11 points between now and the end of the season, never mind 11 points MORE than Ross County, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

If he masterminds a comeback that then also sees us get through a playoff final, it would be the perfect "high" for him to sign off on. I don't think there's a realistic route for him to get back to the hero he was a couple years back.

 

*I sit in C2 so haven't witnessed any of this, just based on what people have said on here/Twitter/Facebook.

Agreed 

Actually the 4 points at the split is pretty achievable as presumably both the St Johnstone and Ross County games should be at home. win both those and they're guaranteed to drop points when they play each other

BUT

We would need to win five of our remaining eight games at least - not bad considering we've only managed that three time for the entire season.

And I particularly agree with this " I think even if we were to stay up it would be despite him rather than thanks to him"

 

[ATLIS]

[Dav nan Gael]

Someone needs to tell them there are now 13 (i think)"senior" teams in West Lothian................

Edited March 19 by Dav nan Gael

[Dav nan Gael]

Livingston FC/Livi Utd/Pumpherston/West Calder Utd/Stoneyburn/Blackburn/Fauldhouse Utd/Whitburn/Armadale Thistle/Bathgate Thistle/Broxburn Athletic/Harthill Royal(just) and Linlithgow Rose.............??

 

[ATLIS]

The LFL Trust have fully lost the plot. Their members that are banned from the stadium, I presume are Hogarth/Rankine? The same group that sat on the board at the same time Rankine was allowed to rinse the club. They've picked their side, Hogarth/Rankine/Sumner. Their apparent involvement with Beurskens has alarm bells ringing as well. 

In that post alone, they've been proven to have lied. A majority of their AGMs and meetings have historically been held at the club. Only these new 'closed' meetings have been held at Crofthead Farm or via Zoom. When called on the lies they've resorted to legalese language and demanding apologies. The LFL wasn't always like this but those that have held control of it have utterly failed it for a long time now - they've either had the wool pulled over their eyes by people draining the club of cash via courts or are fully backing them. 

John Ward had repeatedly offered to attend the meeting and give his side of the story, and is now being denied. He's handed over evidence of shares to the LFL. Rankine, as of yet still hasn't replied to the request to give his side of the story.

Why are the LFL not calling for Livingston fans to come forward and stand for election to the board, is this a back door so that Hogarth/Rankine/Sumner can instil their own people and gain support of the Livingston support? Already there's been members co-opted onto the board who were not elected. I absolutely do not trust these people to have a greater say in the club and an increased shareholding, at this point it's as good as handing the shares off to H/R/S.

The claim that they have no insight into the boardroom battle alone is complete rubbish given their ties to Hogarth alone, let alone long standing historic ties to Rankine and the seat on the board under his rule. 

The one thing I do agree on, is the need for an open fan's forum at the stadium in which John Ward can brief the fans on the current on-goings, as he's been trying to do.

The time has come for a new trust away from any side in this fight, an independent Livingston FC Trust with only the club's survival and prosperity in mind. Not to line the pockets of anyone. It has to start somewhere. It's our club, it's not a company there to make profit for anyone. 

Edited March 19 by ATLIS

[The Wrong Car]

I was happy to see the Trust make moves to arrange an AGM.

The offer they took, then rescinded, for Ward to speak was understandable giving it would result in non-Trust members wishing to attend a meeting that needs to focus on fairly dull administrative tasks. I also understand why meetings may not be held at the club, particularly this one. 

However, I have no idea why they seemed to tie themselves up with stupid lies. Claiming there's no precedent to meeting being held at the club, claiming they've held monthly meetings (which turned out to be unpublicised, non-minuted zoom calls or meeting in homes) and the general snideness in their response to fans who question this is alarming. In a week where we've seen the chairman rant on Twitter, a volunteer compare fans to supermarket shoppers, the Trust seems determined to trump them all.  

[Livi]

2 minutes ago, The Wrong Car said:

I was happy to see the Trust make moves to arrange an AGM.

The offer they took, then rescinded, for Ward to speak was understandable giving it would result in non-Trust members wishing to attend a meeting that needs to focus on fairly dull administrative tasks. I also understand why meetings may not be held at the club, particularly this one. 

However, I have no idea why they seemed to tie themselves up with stupid lies. Claiming there's no precedent to meeting being held at the club, claiming they've held monthly meetings (which turned out to be unpublicised, non-minuted zoom calls or meeting in homes) and the general snideness in their response to fans who question this is alarming. In a week where we've seen the chairman rant on Twitter, a volunteer compare fans to supermarket shoppers, the Trust seems determined to trump them all.  

For me its a storm in a tea cup. The Trust needs to sort its self out first. Sure we all agree on that point

[larry the lion]

47 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

The LFL Trust have fully lost the plot. Their members that are banned from the stadium, I presume are Hogarth/Rankine? The same group that sat on the board at the same time Rankine was allowed to rinse the club. They've picked their side, Hogarth/Rankine/Sumner. Their apparent involvement with Beurskens has alarm bells ringing as well. 

In that post alone, they've been proven to have lied. A majority of their AGMs and meetings have historically been held at the club. Only these new 'closed' meetings have been held at Crofthead Farm or via Zoom. When called on the lies they've resorted to legalese language and demanding apologies. The LFL wasn't always like this but those that have held control of it have utterly failed it for a long time now - they've either had the wool pulled over their eyes by people draining the club of cash via courts or are fully backing them. 

John Ward had repeatedly offered to attend the meeting and give his side of the story, and is now being denied. He's handed over evidence of shares to the LFL. Rankine, as of yet still hasn't replied to the request to give his side of the story.

Why are the LFL not calling for Livingston fans to come forward and stand for election to the board, is this a back door so that Hogarth/Rankine/Sumner can instil their own people and gain support of the Livingston support? Already there's been members co-opted onto the board who were not elected. I absolutely do not trust these people to have a greater say in the club and an increased shareholding, at this point it's as good as handing the shares off to H/R/S.

The claim that they have no insight into the boardroom battle alone is complete rubbish given their ties to Hogarth alone, let alone long standing historic ties to Rankine and the seat on the board under his rule. 

The one thing I do agree on, is the need for an open fan's forum at the stadium in which John Ward can brief the fans on the current on-goings, as he's been trying to do.

The time has come for a new trust away from any side in this fight, an independent Livingston FC Trust with only the club's survival and prosperity in mind. Not to line the pockets of anyone. It has to start somewhere. It's our club, it's not a company there to make profit for anyone. 

Are you JW?

I'm getting the sense there are some personal feelings getting thrown int the mix, for reference: I have no idea who any of you actually are, nor any knowledge or memory of skulduggery on anyone's part. For me the main thing is to take a sensible approach as fans to strengthen our position. Majority shareholding would be the aim. 

I read the message as inviting livi fans to join as members, and also looking for a whole new Board to step in...

Edited March 19 by larry the lion

[larry the lion]

mmmh, isn't there some conflict of interest if you personally own shares, and are involved with a fans trust that own shares in same club?  The trust would need to fix that if it was still allowed..

Edited March 19 by larry the lion

[The Wrong Car]

Just now, Livi said:

For me its a storm in a tea cup. The Trust needs to sort its self out first. Sure we all agree on that point

I completely agree that they need to sort itself out. They jumped the gun accepting Ward's offer, and realised this. That's fine, but phrasing that as "We also wish to state that Mr Ward was not invited to speak at the original meeting; he offered to speak, but was not asked" seems needlessly provocative. Ward could, and should organise a forum, but it was the Trust that publicly accepted his offer to speak at the original meeting. 

However, I think the Trust demanding apologies for "besmirching" Trust members who ask them to explain points, or posting fairly childish emojis to fans posting concerns, suggests an organisation that is fundamentally defensive towards fans' scrutiny. Hopefully the election of a new board changes this, as it's clear that the Trust, similar to the club, includes folk that are burnt out and need to step away. There's still a need for them, and hopefully this is looked back on at some point as a minor mis-step in their re-launch as an organisation for all fans

[larry the lion]

Trust members, or board members might have to refrain from indulging in social media....

 

[The Wrong Car]

18 minutes ago, larry the lion said:

mmmh, isn't there some conflict of interest if you personally own shares, and are involved with a fans trust that own shares in same club?  The trust would need to fix that if it was still allowed..

I can't be 100% sure, but I'd imagine a number of Trust members would have taken part in the Operating Fund and gained shares in their individual name so I doubt it's something they'd enforce. 

[Durnford]

Read the thread on the Trust Facebook page. What a sad state of affairs and totally avoidable in my opinion.

The statement should have been thoroughly check and verified before being put out. It reads like one person's opinion rather than an organised update fro the trust board.

I am particularly unhappy to see Rose McAulay accused of lying when all I suspect she was trying to do was to help clarify the matter. She didn't write the article but was attempting to respond. I believe I know Rose from numerous trips on the supporters bus; is it is the same person, and I firmly believe it is, then I have always found her friendly and helpful and thoroughly trustworthy.

Unfortunately I'm not sure Duncan Bennett's response, although perhaps understandable was the best way to respond given that they are looking to encourage new members.

The entire board is made up of volunteers who will have daytime jobs etc. so its understandable that they might not have much available time but they still need to ensure they do things properly. One post being sent out unchecked caused a whole barrel load of trouble for pretty much the entire board and their helpers.

[CharlieWhisky]

I wonder: Who is the current Trust member involved in the court cases?