EdinburghLivi Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I reckon we could have big attendances for Third Division level but you're probably right on that front. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Darwin Esq Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 We have no manager or coaches in place for next season having sacked one set & suspened another & yet he wants fans to part with hard earned ££££££'s - he does live in a dream world Can't find fault in any of that. I've done my best to give the guy a chance, but each time he's pissed on my shoes. I've no confidence in him whatsoever, but there's little point in singing this from the rooftops just now. I know he'll be found out eventually, but I'm just concerned he'll take the club down with him 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCL Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Can't find fault in any of that. I've done my best to give the guy a chance, but each time he's pissed on my shoes. I've no confidence in him whatsoever, but there's little point in singing this from the rooftops just now. I know he'll be found out eventually, but I'm just concerned he'll take the club down with him But the tactics of the "Trust" could also see the demise of the club. They are gambling with the future rather than working with the present owner to try and keep us afloat. There's no doubt Massone has a lot to answer for but recent meetings have shown he has admitted he's in trouble and needs help to keep the club in business. There's no guarantee that "Plan B" will get the chance to be implemented. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyrshireTon Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I reckon we could have big attendances for Third Division level but you're probably right on that front. Well the record down there is just under 8500 - set back in 2003. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Darwin Esq Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 But the tactics of the "Trust" could also see the demise of the club. They are gambling with the future rather than working with the present owner to try and keep us afloat. They had a meeting with him yesterday as far as I'm aware. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 (edited) But the tactics of the "Trust" could also see the demise of the club. They are gambling with the future rather than working with the present owner to try and keep us afloat.There's no doubt Massone has a lot to answer for but recent meetings have shown he has admitted he's in trouble and needs help to keep the club in business. There's no guarantee that "Plan B" will get the chance to be implemented. This thread reminds me of our struggles. We also had deluded fans like yourself who wanted to blame the Supporters Trust, rather than laying the blame where it belonged, with the current owners. If the present owner has proved himself to be incapable of running the club, then why perpetuate his ownership? ...Anyway, good luck to Livi for the future. Edited May 24, 2009 by Scary Bear 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Darwin Esq Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 If the present owner has proved himself to be incapable of running the club, then why perpetuate his ownership?...Anyway, good luck to Livi for the future. In Utopia, there are no club chairmen 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 (edited) But the tactics of the "Trust" could also see the demise of the club. They are gambling with the future rather than working with the present owner to try and keep us afloat.There's no doubt Massone has a lot to answer for but recent meetings have shown he has admitted he's in trouble and needs help to keep the club in business. There's no guarantee that "Plan B" will get the chance to be implemented. Working with a club owner is the general rule of thumb. However, Massone lies to everyone..........council, supporters, media, staff and creditors. He has proven himself to be completely unworthy of anyone's trust (or money). Anyone who can do what Massane did to Hegarty and Robertson simply isn't a man of substance. That he is now saying the club are in trouble is amazing. Some now seem to see such a statement as meaning that he is on the road to redemption. That is even more amazing. Show me one thing he has done for his one pound purchase price that the Trust couldn't have done in a much much better way. Do people still think Massone has been pumping money into the club? Do they really? Livvy supporters really do need to find an alternative. I see one chap on LL posting that he wouldn't support a Trust because they don't have enough money, and will water down what his club have been up to now.........it beggars belief, but it is the "Livi way" where too many don't give a toss who goes unpaid, or who gets trampled on along the way provided they have a "successful" team. I've said it before and I'll say it again...........punters like him are going to ensure that Livingston doesn't get the club is should want, but it will get the club it deserves. Edited May 24, 2009 by Guest 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I feel sorry for Livi fans having gone through the pain of administration. I remember going to a meeting of supporters and being told we were £23M in debt and the feeling of utter shock. Until Massone is removed I don't see how the club can move forward. It might be preferable to start again from scratch in the 3rd without him. Livingston's administration was about as painless as an administration can be. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCL Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Working with a club owner is the general rule of thumb. However, Massone lies to everyone..........council, supporters, media, staff and creditors. He has proven himself to be completely unworthy of anyone's trust (or money). Anyone who can do what Massane did to Hegarty and Robertson simply isn't a man of substance.Livvy supporters really do need to find another way. I see one chap on LL posting that he wouldn't support a Trust because they don't have enough money, and will water down what his club have been up to now.........it beggars belief, but it is the "Livi way" where too many don't give a toss who goes unpaid, or who gets trampled on along the way provided they have a "successful" team. I've said it before and I'll say it again...........punters like him are going to ensure that Livingston gets the club it deserves. By encouraging fans to withhold their ST money and cut off any other revenue streams won't help the staff to get their money due though ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 (edited) By encouraging fans to withhold their ST money and cut off any other revenue streams won't help the staff to get their money due though ? I thought Massone was putting in funds to cover everything? Listen there are employers, employees and customers. The owners are in it to make money (in this case, from acquisition of the stadium, and the sale of players). The responsibility for payment to employees sits squarely with the employer........Massone. It is not a direct responsibility of the customers...........you guys. Massone's responsibility is getting money from the customers by providing a service that you want, and by acting in a responsible and ethical way. Has he done that? Since you know Massone is going to spend whatever money you give him in a manner by which you have no control, ask him to do the following: In exchange for anyone prepared to put the price of a season ticket into a fund controlled by an independent 3rd party, then you shall receive a season ticket, and the money shall be distributed firstly to staff who are owed wages. When that has been settled, then he can have whatever is left. He can start being honest by listing who is owed what in wages. Names don't even have to be disclosed. If Massone cannot be as honest as disclose to you what he is owing in wages, then he ain't worth talking to. Edited May 24, 2009 by Guest 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCL Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I thought Massone was putting in funds to cover everything? Listen there are employers, employees and customers. The owners are in it to make money (in this case, from acquisition of the stadium, and the sale of players). The responsibility for payment to employees sits squarely with the employer........Massone. It is not a direct responsibility of the customers...........you guys. Massone's responsibility is getting money from the customers by providing a service that you want, and by acting in a responsible and ethical way. Has he done that?Since you know Massone is going to spend whatever money you give him in a manner by which you have no control, ask him to do the following: In exchange for anyone prepared to put the price of a season ticket into a fund controlled by an independent 3rd party, then you shall receive a season ticket, and the money shall be distributed firstly to staff who are owed wages. When that has been settled, then he can have whatever is left. He can start being honest by listing who is owed what in wages. Names don't even have to be disclosed. If Massone cannot be as honest as disclose to you what he is owing in wages, then he ain't worth talking to. What other business would run that model of a third party contolling their cash flow ? The answer is none. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 (edited) What other business would run that model of a third party contolling their cash flow ? The answer is none. Oh I'm afraid you are very very wrong there. Escrow type services are used worldwide by many companies. 3rd party lodging of funds is very common. Far better that than a company that operates by requesting money from you with absolutely no guarantee that you'll get what you pay for. How many companies operate like that? Look, at the end of the day, its up to you. I don't know if you actually care too much if Massone lies to people, or pays people. Livvy have never been big on that kind of stuff.........thats why no-one bats an eyelid when you sack managers. You tend to be more interested in discussing who the new one will be rather than the rights and wrongs of why the last one was sacked. As long as you believe Massone to be the best of the options open to you, and his behaviours aren't enough to offend you to the point of doing what it takes to get him the hell out of Dodge, then nothing will change regardless of what I or anyone else says. If people want to give Massone their money, then they are perfectly entitled to fill their boots. Just be aware that those who are giving the warnings that it will end in tears will be proven to be right. Where Livvy is concerned, they have near enough a perfect track record. Edited May 24, 2009 by Guest 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 thats why no-one bats an eyelid when you sack managers. You tend to be more interested in discussing who the new one will be rather than why the last one was sacked. I can understand why you say that and I suppose that because I am a Livi fan (probably the only thing I will ever have in common with MCL )I have to be a bit guilty by association. However After 14 unbroken years I have decided there is no way this guy will get one penny more from me. Can I also state that I am disgusted at the thread on livilions discussing a new manager. Be assured that not all Livi fans think with the same mentality as those who come on here making excuses for Massone. Whether or not there are enough of us is the question though. I also worry that there may be no time to salvage anything from the mess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 I can understand why you say that and I suppose that because I am a Livi fan (probably the only thing I will ever have in common with MCL )I have to be a bit guilty by association. However After 14 unbroken years I have decided there is no way this guy will get one penny more from me. Can I also state that I am disgusted at the thread on livilions discussing a new manager. Be assured that not all Livi fans think with the same mentality as those who come on here making excuses for Massone. Whether or not there are enough of us is the question though. I also worry that there may be no time to salvage anything from the mess. That is genuinely comforting to know that. Your attitude needs to spread to a few of your fellow fans. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 In exchange for anyone prepared to put the price of a season ticket into a fund controlled by an independent 3rd party, then you shall receive a season ticket, and the money shall be distributed firstly to staff who are owed wages. Someone already suggested that on Livilions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest highlander Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 very bored, i wish the little italian who owns them would sell them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Someone already suggested that on Livilions. When was this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 When was this? Ages ago it was suggested that the trust could have ring-fenced season ticket monies. The Livi Trust have a golden opportunity to gain a real say in things at Livi but seem too busy making mischief to grasp it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Ages ago it was suggested that the trust could have ring-fenced season ticket monies.The Livi Trust have a golden opportunity to gain a real say in things at Livi but seem too busy making mischief to grasp it. I've never heard of the mischief making stuff wrt your Trust. How's that manifesting itself? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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