Livingston - all the threads merged

[shawfield shed boy]

Probably going to upset a few folk here though to be honest i dont care ..

Livingston FC wont be any great loss to scottish football .. They remind me (from day one and to this date) of some film about a football team..Rich owner buyng a club,moving to a new town and changing the name,No proper identity,No history & no real fan base that probably dont care if it was a football or ice hockey team that landed on their new town

Infact when you think about it most of the above does apply to livingston Fc

I wont miss the trip to probably one of the worst stadiums/days out & steward over kill should they go bust & im probably not alone.

Edited July 27, 2009 by shawfield shed boy

[EdinburghLivi]

Okay, you're up: you don't totally disagree with the extracts above? I've taken care to embolden the particular ones that I take most factual exceptions to.

In a nutshell though:

- half-million for the best prospect since McFadden

- core 1500 support

- club is not asset-less, rotten to the core

- club is easily a financially viable entity

- youth team are good enough for First Division survival

- Scottish football will be worsened by the loss of this franchise side

Those claims are a mix of laughable bluster and nonsense supported by no evidence whatsoever. How can you agree with those sentiments in any way?

What I said was that the Daily Record bit was the only bit I disagreed with "totally". There are other parts of his statement which I do disagree with but they have truth in them as well.

[vikingTON]

What I said was that the Daily Record bit was the only bit I disagreed with "totally". There are other parts of his statement which I do disagree with but they have truth in them as well.

I read what you said. I'll repeat the question: how can you agree (with the above claims) in any way?

[Guest]

Because one person says some stupid things (to be honest, it was only the Daily Record bit I totally disagreed with) you basically say that the all of Livi support has an evil gene that has to be weeded out.

You never felt sorry for us for a second, which is fair enough to be honest, however don't try and play that game.

Wrong. There have been a couple or three recently for whom I have had some sympathy, and LLD for whom I have had long term respect. He was the one and only dissenting voice on LiviLions last year, and was treated the way anyone who told the truth about Livvy was treated.............with absolute and utter contempt. That he was ripped off in 2004 yet hung around to still support the mob at Almondvale says he is either completely dumb, or operates at a higher ethical level than the majority of his peers. You choose which.

There's no need for me to play any kind of sympathy game. None at all. My stance has remained consistent. I want Livvy to pay everyone all of their money. If they won't do that, then I do not want a "take this or you will get f**k all" stance to succeed again. I want them erased off the face of Scottish football. If it happens, I won't click my heels. If it doesn't happen, I won't hang my head in despair. It will however, make it pretty clear to me the depths to which the game has been dragged by the involvement of company law, and public money. Sign o' the times right enough.

[Guest]

What I said was that the Daily Record bit was the only bit I disagreed with "totally". There are other parts of his statement which I do disagree with but they have truth in them as well.

Humour us on this.........................which bits were truthful?

[EdinburghLivi]

I read what you said. I'll repeat the question: how can you agree (with the above claims) in any way?

Let's look through the whole statement.

First paragraph is academic. Correct.

Second Paragraph. To be honest, I'd regard most of that as correct as well. Griffiths will play for Scotland and we could have earned a lot more than £100k for his sale. Brightest prospect part? Perhaps not the brightest, but up there.

Third paragraph once again, very much correct.

Fourth paragraph is completely wrong. Halving the crowd by saying the wrong time? I think not.

From the fourth paragraph, I'd say you're correct when you think we don't have a core support of 1500. The rest is correct because as fans we do have those memories we can cherish.

Finally, the following is correct from the last paragraph.

"This is a club that has contributed massively to Scottish football in recent years." - Like it or not, it has. Our CIS Cup win can't be erased and through our youth system we have produced talents that will without a doubt, play for Scotland in the future. And before you say it, by developing the youngsters correctly we have contributed in recent years. Our jaunt into Europe also raised Scotland's coefficient until recently.

Our club isn't rotten to the core simply because the fans aren't rotten to the core despite what many on here think. Just normal fans who want to enjoy their team's success as much as any other club's fans. Assetless, I'll give you.

Financially viable, I'd like to think this could be correct in the future if we are given the chance.

Next sentence is correct in my mind despite there being a few clubs in the Performance league.

The following part about keeping us up, most likely isn't.

"Take away this platform so cheaply and you could lose at least 1 future Scotland star from the game" - Correct because of the fact he has put the word could in the sentence.

And with the final sentence, I'd like to think it's correct. Perhaps you don't agree but I'd imagine you'd miss getting the chance to beat us four times in a season, just a little bit.

Edited July 27, 2009 by EdinburghLivi

[EdinburghLivi]

Wrong. There have been a couple or three recently for whom I have had some sympathy, and LLD for whom I have had long term respect. He was the one and only dissenting voice on LiviLions last year, and was treated the way anyone who told the truth about Livvy was treated.............with absolute and utter contempt. That he was ripped off in 2004 yet hung around to still support the mob at Almondvale says he is either completely dumb, or operates at a higher ethical level than the majority of his peers. You choose which.

There's no need for me to play any kind of sympathy game. None at all. My stance has remained consistent. I want Livvy to pay everyone all of their money. If they won't do that, then I do not want a "take this or you will get f**k all" stance to succeed again. I want them erased off the face of Scottish football. If it happens, I won't click my heels. If it doesn't happen, I won't hang my head in despair. It will however, make it pretty clear to me the depths to which the game has been dragged by the involvement of company law, and public money. Sign o' the times right enough.

That was my impression, forgive me if I'm truly wrong.

[banjo player]

Livi Lions is now asking lurkers to register, which I won't be doing. What a shame, I was enjoying some of that.

[Robbo]

Tosh and Burns, and for a reported forty grand, which was later rumoured to be ten grand in cash. The deal was done only a few days after Rovers beat Livingston 4-0.

Close Monster

25k

I'm sure that it has been mentioned by Raith supporters on several occasions that they appealed to us to buy the players to help them out of their financial situation.

Correct

Unfortunately we can`t return the favour as were skint

[Yoss]

Sorry, EdinburghLivi, but your CIS Cup win and European jaunt were not honestly won because they were bought with other peoples' money that was never repaid. That's not at all a positive contribution to Scottish football, quite the opposite; there were some people coming out with the same shite about Gretna twelve months ago, about how they'd given more to the SCottish game in five years than other clubs (who refused to spend beyond their means) had in their lifetimes. Total bollocks.

Again, if Livi fans can't see that, any more than Gretna fans could, then I'm struggling to have much sympathy.

Edited July 27, 2009 by Yoss

[vikingTON]

Let's look through the whole statement.

First paragraph is academic. Correct.

Second Paragraph. To be honest, I'd regard most of that as correct as well. Griffiths will play for Scotland and we could have earned a lot more than £100k for his sale. Brightest prospect part? Perhaps not the brightest, but up there.

Third paragraph once again, very much correct.

Fourth paragraph is completely wrong. Halving the crowd by saying the wrong time? I think not.

From the fourth paragraph, I'd say you're correct when you think we don't have a core support of 1500. The rest is correct because as fans we do have those memories we can cherish.

Finally, the following is correct from the last paragraph.

"This is a club that has contributed massively to Scottish football in recent years." - Like it or not, it has. Our CIS Cup win can't be erased and through our youth system we have produced talents that will without a doubt, play for Scotland in the future. And before you say it, by developing the youngsters correctly we have contributed in recent years. Our jaunt into Europe also raised Scotland's coefficient until recently.

Our club isn't rotten to the core simply because the fans aren't rotten to the core despite what many on here think. Just normal fans who want to enjoy their team's success as much as any other club's fans. Assetless, I'll give you.

Financially viable, I'd like to think this could be correct in the future if we are given the chance.

Next sentence is correct in my mind despite there being a few clubs in the Performance league.

The following part about keeping us up, most likely isn't.

"Take away this platform so cheaply and you could lose at least 1 future Scotland star from the game" - Correct because of the fact he has put the word could in the sentence.

And with the final sentence, I'd like to think it's correct. Perhaps you don't agree but I'd imagine you'd missing getting the chance to beat us four times in a season, just a little bit.

Thanks for the commitment to that task.

Griffiths will play for Scotland and we could have earned a lot more than £100k for his sale.

Well, the first part is rating rather than fact-based, so is moot when dealing with the 38 hours and a bit Livingston actually have left. There's little evidence to suggest that a player who has starred for one season at this level could be sold for much more than that value (by much more, 125-150k). There's no track record of such major moves, particularly when consistency from season to season has not yet been established.

It is certain that the market values the player, not the club, and the market valuation for Griffiths is neither the cause of Livingston's demise, nor is it particularly unfair. It just smacks of disappointment at losing your best player: which makes the blame the writer tries to apportion ludicrous.

"This is a club that has contributed massively to Scottish football in recent years."

That argument seems to be based on two seasons in 14 years: the 3rd place finish and the CIS win. It's fitting that the writer missed the point that the first acheivement was due to spending money Livingston didn't have, the result of which coincided with the second and certainly last acheivement.

Assetless, I'll give you.

Financially viable, I'd like to think this could be correct in the future if we are given the chance.

For me those two go together. There is nothing on Livingston's balance sheet that makes the club solvent, apart from perhaps bar stocks and other irrelevancies. Credit for day-to-day running has to be sought on the basis that there's a rich guy behind the scenes who will invest and occasionally pay off creditors, and then is repaid (almost never) by club income. There is also a clear historical track record of repeated loss making and debt accrual. There is no evidence to support that. A nice bedtime thought for Livingston fans perhaps, but about as real as Puff the Magic Dragon.

"Take away this platform so cheaply and you could lose at least 1 future Scotland star from the game" - Correct because of the fact he has put the word could in the sentence.

By putting 'could' he nullifies any point that statement was aiming for. A future Scotland star could come from the pub side down the street. He could be playing for any one of thousands of amateur sides up and down the country. If any of those entities financially mismanaged on such a gross scale they would be wound up without a hundredth of the dilly-dallying allowed to Livingston FC.

And with the final sentence, I'd like to think it's correct. Perhaps you don't agree but I'd imagine you'd missing getting the chance to beat us four times in a season, just a little bit.

Frankly, I'd rather have virulent ebola than visit Almondvale or see Livingston for anything other than club 'duty'. Maybe when a new club springs up with a more grounded approach, they'll be of worth to Scottish football. The current entity make Scottish football a laughing stock and deserve to be wound up on Wednesday. A deal to let in another charlatan will only delay the inevitable.

Edited July 27, 2009 by vikingTON

[EdinburghLivi]

Livi Lions is now asking lurkers to register, which I won't be doing. What a shame, I was enjoying some of that.

Can you really blame the mods? The server has crashed so many times throughout the year because of interest from lurkers, at least this will filter them out a bit.

[MCL]

I wont miss the trip to probably one of the worst stadiums/days out & steward over kill should they go bust & im probably not alone.

A Clyde fan from wind-swept Broadwood (and before that the dilapidated Shawfield with it's dog track) calling Almondvale one of the worst stadiums !! :lol:

[MCL]

Tosh and Burns, and for a reported forty grand, which was later rumoured to be ten grand in cash. The deal was done only a few days after Rovers beat Livingston 4-0.

And all the four goals were scored by the three players. I think it was Toasty who got the double.

Livi were approached for the deal and therefore saved Raith from going defunct !!

[Numbers]

I dont think you have to register on livi lions because the server has crashed.

I run V Bulletin boards on my auction sites and there is no way would anything less than a couple of thousand visitors even remotely effect the running of the site.

The probability is there hosting company server and the other sites using it are creating an overload. But more to the point is there is no need to ask people to register just to view whats posted unless there are things that need to be kept out of the public eye.

The more likely case here is whoever is running the livi lions board doesnt have a clue what there doing. And i dont mean this sarcastically or detrementally either.

[southview]

Terrific, top marks to whoever penned that one.

I hope this thread tuns into the Gretna-style countdown we saw last year. That was excellent, very little work got done that day as I was too busy reading it and laughing.

Deary, deary me. I assume this has been written by Massone's lawyer who advised against taking the £25k. It seems the administrator has turned into the banker from Deal or No Deal - you can take this £25k now or you can hold it in the hope you'll get more but run the risk of losing it all.

The deadline will change nothing in my view, just like it changed nothing at Gretna.

I wondered when you would put your dancing shoes on and make an appearance!

Are you working this week or still on the skive?

At least if you are off we won't bring our company's server crashing to a halt by monitoring events here on Wednesday morning!

[EdinburghLivi]

Debt is apparently £1.7m, Angelo inherited around £300k for his £1.

Edited July 27, 2009 by EdinburghLivi

[Numbers]

No wonder you cant read livi lions forum.

I doubt there is anyway back from this. £1.7 million is a bucket load and a half.

[AND180Y]

Debt is apparently £1.7m, Angelo inherited around £300k for his £1.

Not looking good for a 25p in the pound CVA then?

[Guest zupa]

.............."some people are on the pitch"...................................

... "it is now".

Edited July 27, 2009 by zupa