Skyline Drifter Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Well ultimately, the case in law is all that really matters surely.I seriously doubt that the Dee4Life trust has any sort of veto over a ground-share with United or moving to new stadium or indeed any other major issue. I also think that any suggestion they have is a misunderstanding by some of the fans who post here possibly based on some platitudes put across by Melville to the fans that mean very little in reality. The implications are for the Dee4life trust, their members and the wider Dundee FC fans to wrestle with. Well no ultimately if they have a legal agreement to a veto somewhere along the line then that WILL matter. However, I agree it appears this is a misunderstanding. Talk of this veto power has been around since the shareholding was attained. It has nothing directly to do with Calum Melville. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 there are about a dozen ex-Wimbledon FC fans who still support the MK Dongs despite the club moving 60 miles, changing their kit colours, name and all the trophies having been handed back. I view them similar to the Japanese soldiers who were still denying that WW2 was over some 40 years after it ended. Indeed - though I can understand if some Livingston FC fans who want to start again would prefer a club that is run by the Livi trust so that they can never get fucked over again. Going to support a local Junior club (or indeed another SFL or SPL club) is OK for those who just want another game of fitba to watch on a Saturday - it won't suit the Livi hard-core and I can't see the Drum Beat Mafia (as an example) being welcomed at any other Scottish club. Perhaps some take-over of Livingston's Junior club is a possibility provided their supporters agree to it. Did you not make a point about bad taste comparing a minutes silence for a deceased ex-chairman to a minutes silence for a nearly dead football club? Now you're drawing comparisons to WW2 and a football club moving 60 miles. I've got one. I was asked to change desks yesterday, it reminded me of the refugees in The Somalian Warr only worse, at least they get the weather. And another thing! How many of the Livi Juniors have to agree to this take over? Will "the vast majority" do. If the rest don't should they start another community based team, who would you support? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 And another thing! How many of the Livi Juniors have to agree to this take over? Will "the vast majority" do. If the rest don't should they start another community based team, who would you support? As long as they get to vote and decide, I'm happy.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flash Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I don't see how corporate articles could reasonably dictate the site at which business takes place. I've never heard of them doing so. Ours certainly don't.Directors of course could be voted out if they couldn't gather 50% support for their actions. Hence the use of the word "direct" in the previous post. But by then the deed is done. If the board of directors lawfully sell a stadium to a developer and sign a contract to build a new one elsewhere or share one with someone else, voting the particular directors out six months down the line (or even calling an EGM for a motion of no-confidence) isn't going to change what's done provided they didn't act "ultra vires" in the first place. I thought the Articles could maybe incorporate something about the sale of the trading property requiring a certain level of shareholder approval. Probably not something you'd commonly find, but I thought maybe a football club's would cater for that, given how important the location can be. And particularly how important it would be to prevent the sale of a stadium without having lined up a new ground. Perhaps many clubs' Articles were drafted in the years before such things were contemplated - there were no Tesco Extras in 1919. I appreciate the directors being voted out would be after the event, but if they knew (or suspected) they were acting against the majority of the shareholders they would know it was coming. I guess it depends on how much importance a director attached to his job whether or not he approved something he knew was going to result in his demise. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 As long as they get to vote and decide, I'm happy.... Who would vote on something like that, what would the criteria be? How would it be audited. Or would it be a show of hands in the pub? With Meadowbank, how was the "vast majority" calculated. Were they season ticket holders, supporters club members, what about someone who goes most of the time but pays at the gate do they get a vote? I'm curious as to how The Democratic Front for Football, puts all this on to practice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I just hope Livi can pull through. As much as people shout 'plastic team' and 'franchise FC' they have been part of scottish football for a while now, I hope if they survive they can learn to be responsible and live within their means. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staggy4life Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 F*ck off Airdrie. I can't be bothered playing them again this year - they follow us like a bad smell. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doink Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Regarding possible promotions of Airdrie United and Cowdenbeath:Have to agree with Skyline Drifter: -the SFL cannot have their top league running with only four games per week. -compensation paid to SFL3 would be a lot less. And cannot see the bookies being chuffed at having one VOID on their coupons every week (SFL3 hardly features at the best of times - neither does half of SFL2 for that matter) SFL Divisions 2 and 3 are on all bookies lists. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 23 hours. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifes Elite Force Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Talking of Compensation. Will the 2nd division clubs be compensated for the lost revenue of a larger Airdrie support? Obviously all teams would've worked out in their forecasts an away support in excess of so many fans (Clyde for example would forecast atleast 150), now Cowdenbeath will be promoted now, they'll only bring about 50, a loss of 200 fans and aproximately £2000 atleast. lol 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dedan Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Well ultimately, the case in law is all that really matters surely.I seriously doubt that the Dee4Life trust has any sort of veto over a ground-share with United or moving to new stadium or indeed any other major issue. I also think that any suggestion they have is a misunderstanding by some of the fans who post here possibly based on some platitudes put across by Melville to the fans that mean very little in reality. The implications are for the Dee4life trust, their members and the wider Dundee FC fans to wrestle with. Well no ultimately if they have a legal agreement to a veto somewhere along the line then that WILL matter. However, I agree it appears this is a misunderstanding.Talk of this veto power has been around since the shareholding was attained. It has nothing directly to do with Calum Melville. Sorry to burst the bubble of bitterness forming here but when the new board was formed an agreement was put in place that any action of the board required unanimous approval.So through our Dee4Life representative on the board the fans have power of veto over any and all decisions.If there was any doubt at board room level over Callum Melville's intentions he wouldn't have been allowed anywhere near our club.Our new BoD worked miracles to save the club and for the first time in a long time we have a board the fans trust to protect the long term welfare of the club,they didn't put in all that time and effort to throw it away on a gamble.It may stick in your craw but no matter how much you refuse to believe it a debt free DFC,with ownership of Dens Park back in the clubs hands is a stone's throw away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flash Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Talking of Compensation. Will the 2nd division clubs be compensated for the lost revenue of a larger Airdrie support? Obviously all teams would've worked out in their forecasts an away support in excess of so many fans (Clyde for example would forecast atleast 150), now Cowdenbeath will be promoted now, they'll only bring about 50, a loss of 200 fans and aproximately £2000 atleast. I think you should check your sums. 150 - 50 = ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I think you should check your sums. 150 - 50 = ? And (150 - 50) x 2 = ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) Sorry to burst the bubble of bitterness forming here but when the new board was formed an agreement was put in place that any action of the board required unanimous approval.So through our Dee4Life representative on the board the fans have power of veto over any and all decisions.If there was any doubt at board room level over Callum Melville's intentions he wouldn't have been allowed anywhere near our club.Our new BoD worked miracles to save the club and for the first time in a long time we have a board the fans trust to protect the long term welfare of the club,they didn't put in all that time and effort to throw it away on a gamble.It may stick in your craw but no matter how much you refuse to believe it a debt free DFC,with ownership of Dens Park back in the clubs hands is a stone's throw away. Is there something in the water in Dundee? Why is it no-one can ask a straightforward question without being accused of being "bitter" and "jealous"? Personally I don't have any problem what arrangements Dundee have in place, I asked if they actually DID have something in place. It seems from what they say that there is something. That's fine. What is the format of this agreement? Who agreed to it? Who can amend it? Is it part of the articles? You can climb down off your high horse any time now. Edited July 28, 2009 by Skyline Drifter 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Who would vote on something like that, what would the criteria be? How would it be audited.Or would it be a show of hands in the pub? With Meadowbank, how was the "vast majority" calculated. Were they season ticket holders, supporters club members, what about someone who goes most of the time but pays at the gate do they get a vote? I'm curious as to how The Democratic Front for Football, puts all this on to practice. I don't know the answer I'm afraid. I guess that any form of legitimate vote would be acceptable that had some form of independent audit would suffice. Not perfect I agree - some Caley fans still moan about the vote at the meeting where ICT was agreed. Sorry to burst the bubble of bitterness forming here but when the new board was formed an agreement was put in place that any action of the board required unanimous approval.So through our Dee4Life representative on the board the fans have power of veto over any and all decisions.If there was any doubt at board room level over Callum Melville's intentions he wouldn't have been allowed anywhere near our club.Our new BoD worked miracles to save the club and for the first time in a long time we have a board the fans trust to protect the long term welfare of the club,they didn't put in all that time and effort to throw it away on a gamble.It may stick in your craw but no matter how much you refuse to believe it a debt free DFC,with ownership of Dens Park back in the clubs hands is a stone's throw away. Thanks for that - no bitterness from me - genuine interest. Good that a dee4life guy on the board can always veto anything that is not in the genuine interest of Dundee fans. I'm pleased that is the case. I would still sound some caution - Wycombe supporters have just lost any say over the future of their club. Once there are large loans due to individual directors - the fans are between a rock and a hard place IMHO. http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-conn.../jul/06/wycombe http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/david-conn...ootballpolitics 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flash Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 What a fanny. 2 home games? B) Apologies, I thought you meant per game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Bully Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Apologies, I thought you meant per game. Maths ain't a strong point, eh? Away back to yer comps... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dedan Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 Is there something in the water in Dundee?Why is it no-one can ask a straightforward question without being accused of being "bitter" and "jealous"? You and KFTS weren't simply asking straight questions though were you? The suggestion was you knew better than Dundee fans the situation at our club. Thanks for that - no bitterness from me - genuine interest. Good that a dee4life guy on the board can always veto anything that is not in the genuine interest of Dundee fans. I'm pleased that is the case. I would still sound some caution - Wycombe supporters have just lost any say over the future of their club. Once there are large loans due to individual directors - the fans are between a rock and a hard place IMHO. If there was no bitterness meant in your comments KFTS & SD then I apologise.I'm sure you can understand how sick Dundee supporters are of fans of other clubs using any means to try and to knock us and our club.I didn't follow the links,the issue of loans from a board member is of no concern to us,if we take Melville at his word which we have no reason not to as he's backed up everything he's said so far,then DFC don't necessarily owe him a penny.He's publicly said roughly,if the club was ever in a position to repay him some/all of his investment then he'd be a fool to refuse but there's no commitment on the clubs part. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingfaetheSooth Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 (edited) You may (but probably not ) be interested to know that this thread is now longer than the Gretna (are fucked) thread which has 209 pages in the usual view, 5212 replies and 192,699 views currently. http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...&start=5200 Is this now the longest thread away from the General Nonsense forum? And you'll definitely not be interested in the fact that I made 145 posts on the Gretna thread and currently have 210 posts on this thread. And yes, I agree that many of them probably contain shite. And to think, the grave dancing has not even started yet - can someone put Livingston FC and their loyal (for at least 14 years) fans out of their misery please? Edited July 28, 2009 by KingfaetheSooth 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted July 28, 2009 Share Posted July 28, 2009 I just hope Livi can pull through. As much as people shout 'plastic team' and 'franchise FC' they have been part of scottish football for a while now, I hope if they survive they can learn to be responsible and live within their means. Thank you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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