Yoss Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 My point is really broader - in the entire history of the SFL, a situation like this has occurred on really just 2 occasions (Renton / Hamilton). That's what for me makes Livi's actions so diabolical. Absolutely, no disagreement there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I don't think it is or else wouldn't have said it. I don't mean when rumours start flying around. I mean just regular checks to ensure they are staying out of trouble, even be able to offer them advice. There are companies that offer this sort of service.I know where I work, we get checked, rumours or not, whether we like it or not. Maybe not everywhere is like this. Just thought it was an idea!! It's not about being checked for God's sake it's the fact you seem to think the SPL should be bloody doing it! The financial health or otherwise of SFL clubs has got precisely the square root of feck all to do with the SPL and for what it's worth I'm utterly sure they'd agree. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I think we also need a re-write of the rules: both on admin punishment, and on-the-spot action. and a Pyramid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hen Broon Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Simply unbelievable tonight. For what its worth I reckon Livingston are making a huge mistake by not turning up tomorrow, so much so that if I was in the under-19 squad I would be rallying the troops in an attempt to take matters into my own hands and go and play Shire!I assume McGruther and the consortium have taken advice before reaching this decision. I can't believe they would make this call without having at least canvassed opinion from around the League. Maybe an independent lawyer has told them not to turn up tomorrow...? It's a massive risk and I think they've done themselves no favours. They will now be lucky to stay in the SFL in my book. Spencer Fearn and Jim McInally's comments have been spot on. Livi are the main villains of this farce but the SFL's handling of this has been ridiculous and now one of the best days of the season is completely overshadowed by an issue that should have been dealt with in full by last Thursday at the absolute latest. That Independant lawyer was Massone 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waspie Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Anything is possible, but Livingston have rather shot themselves in the foot. Indeed, Im pretty amazed at this latest twist and it seems Livingston have been very poorly advised by somebody in taking this course of action. When their appeal is thrown out they are now going to have a hefty points deduction at best to go with their Third Divisionstatus. Its quite staggering that a club in such a complete mess, a club who are in the brink of going out of business, would take on this stance and play hardball with the SFL. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 No no no... I thought the suggestion is that Livingston hadn't paid their contribution towards the SFL deal, and therefore weren't covered? If you could opt-out of paying and still be covered... why would anyone pay to be part of the deal? My presumption is they have no scheme of their own (who does?). In which case if they've defaulted on the SFL deal, do they have any cover...? You aren't listening. THE CLUBS PAY NOTHING. Any SFL player is automatically covered by an SFL group policy arranged and paid by the SFL. Livingston, like Queen of the South, Berwick Rangers and every other club in the SFL have nothing to pay. Whatever else tomorrow's refusal play is about it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with this complete red herring about insurance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 My point is really broader - in the entire history of the SFL, a situation like this has occurred on really just 2 occasions (Renton / Hamilton). That's what for me makes Livi's actions so diabolical. I'd argue that what Livi are doing has happened only once (Renton). At least Hamilton had a partial excuse, namely a players' strike. From what I can gather, the only reason Livi aren't turning up tomorrow is because they don't believe themselves to be a Third Division club. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Griffin Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Tine to call their bluff; let them stay away tomorrow then kick them out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Perhaps, one positive may come out of all this: lessons will be learned. I sincerely hope so. Whatever the situation, Livingston FC (the organisation... not the fans) will now go down within the annals of history - in the rogue's gallery of clubs who scratched a game. Morton v Hearts... unplayed due to World War I. Stenhousemuir v Hamilton... unplayed due to player strike. Dundee Wanderers v Renton ... unplayed due to Renton holding lucrative friendly v Queens Park. Brechin v Dykeshead ... unplayed due to impending collapse of the Third Division in mid-1920s. And East Stirling v Livingston ... unplayed due to: what exactly? Hardly a noble way to write any epitaph. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Griffin Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 From what I can gather, the only reason Livi aren't turning up tomorrow is because they don't believe themselves to be a Third Division club. Whereas most of us don't consider them to be a football club 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) You aren't listening. THE CLUBS PAY NOTHING. Any SFL player is automatically covered by an SFL group policy arranged and paid by the SFL. Livingston, like Queen of the South, Berwick Rangers and every other club in the SFL have nothing to pay.Whatever else tomorrow's refusal play is about it has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with this complete red herring about insurance. Fair do's Skyline my apologies, I thought it was a contribution scheme. Hearing you loud + clear. Edited August 7, 2009 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejailender Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 I can see both side to the situation here. Livi feel as though they should be in the first division therefore they are not wanting to play third division football. I assume they have had some legal advise that if they were to play third division football then it would be seen as though the have accepted the decision... which obviously they haven't. On the other hand, they have broken the rules and have been punished, and as far as I am concerned they should accept the punishment and jsut get on with the games, and trying to rescue their club... If the SFL use the precedent of Hamilton, Livingston will be goven a 15 point deduction, and be sat bottom of the third division ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) Perhaps, one positive may come out of all this: lessons will be learned. I sincerely hope so. Once the dust has settled, I'd like to think that the SFL will effectively hold their hands up and bring in someone to conduct a hasty, independent inquiry into what's happened. The report should make recommendations on the handling of such situations in the future, as well as (if needs be) apportioning blame to individuals. Failing that, David Longmuir should adhere to the principal of ministerial responsibility and resign. Edited August 7, 2009 by Sir Calum Melville 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Northerner Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Failing that, David Longmuir should adhere to the principal of ministerial responsibility and resign. The hari-kiri analogy may be more appropriate. Except there'd be few friends to slice his head off to ease the pain 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 In defence of Mr Longmuir, he's been a big success since coming in (Irn-Bru deal, ALBA Cup + TV deal for it+ Div 1, CIS extension, other technical stuff) - and he aint the Management Committee!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southview Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 It was Livingston FC who left it until 4:50pm today to tell the SFL, the media and the fans they weren't turning up tomorrow. Why leave it until then? What could the SFL have done? Nothing... My comment on the SFL was regarding the whole situation in general, not tonight's developments. Clearly Livi are responsible for the shambles happening just now and as I have said, I think they are well and truly wrong in making this stance. Had the SFL dealt with this matter fully last Thursday when McGruther/Rankine/McDougall all turned up then we wouldn't be in this position, we wouldn't have had the circus of the past week and all clubs would have known where they stood nine days before kick-off (still not ideal for promoted clubs like Airdrie/Cowdenbeath but better than promotion at 72 hours notice). At that point it should have been first division with points deduction or demotion to third division with Livi waving their right of appeal in return for the SFL to taking the unprecedented step of allowing the three amigos to bypass Massone and continue to try and save the club. If they had had the bottle they could have also told McGruther to get stuffed that day and revoked their membership as a consequence of them falling into liquidation later in the day or carried out the same act on July 24, the day before the season started proper. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hen Broon Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 No one has came out of this well. I feel like I have been through a wringer over the last week. All I want to do is support my team irrespective of what division. Now I feel that todays action could end that. There also really seems to be a hatred (not by all) for all things Livi. Are we that bad? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LLD Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 Livi will be back in the 1st division once the legal eagles check the small print. And I suspect any case will be strengthened when Ross County and Airdrie kick off at Victoria Park tomorrow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 (edited) In defence of Mr Longmuir, he's been a big success since coming in (Irn-Bru deal, ALBA Cup + TV deal for it+ Div 1, CIS extension, other technical stuff) - and he aint the Management Committee!! Oh yes, it's great that he's managed all this. Unfortunately, however, the buck does have to stop with him. Although not entirely the same, it's a bit like Fred Goodwin -- he may not have been personally involved in bad deals, but they happened under his stewardship so he has to take the blame. Edited August 7, 2009 by Sir Calum Melville 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted August 7, 2009 Share Posted August 7, 2009 And I suspect any case will be strengthened when Ross County and Airdrie kick off at Victoria Park tomorrow. And why is that, then? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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