Livingston - all the threads merged

[Cptn Hooch]

Aye?
What did Montano do? What did Panayiotou do? Metal comment. 

Montano was a like for like change with McMillan who had run his race, Panayiotou linked up well with Anderson and it's a partnership I'd like to see more of. It's bordering on ridiculous that Livi fans are looking for excuses to blame Martindale after that performance

[Guest]

I really like McMillan and Penrice. They're both in that Pittman mould of hard running but also tactical sense and good technique, especially in Penrice's case.

[LIVIFOREVER]

I can see what ATLIS is saying, thought Shinnie starting up front again was a mistake, and thought Anderson would've done so much better in that first half the way we dominated it. I've said it numerous times that Shinnie just isn't a striker and had ONE good game against Celtic in that position, but has had quite a few shite games there since. It's annoying me as much as not putting a man on the halfway line when we're defending corners, giving us no out ball for counter attacks.

Much better performance from us and Forrest had a stormer first half, as did Omeonga and Sibbald, all key players, not having Bailey (must be injured?)and Anderson up front took away a big chunk of our goal threat. Playing like that is exactly where Anderson would thrive, so we go and play a midfielder instead.

I'm by no means supporting Martindale being removed (nae chance of that happening anyway), but just wish he'd stop playing Shinnie as a striker, and FFS put a man on the halfway line defending corners (Bollan was also guilty of not doing that too and it did my head in).

Omeonga was a miss when he went off, but the shift he put in he'd have been totally done playing 90 mins and no use for the Hibs game, so i can see why Martindale took him off, trying to rest players as much as he can for this busy month of fixtures, may even be why he tried Shinnie starting too, trying to rest Anderson so he can start against Hibs, but i'd rather he rotated Panayiotou with Anderson.

[LIVIFOREVER]

41 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said:

I really like McMillan and Penrice. They're both in that Pittman mould of hard running but also tactical sense and good technique, especially in Penrice's case.

He made a few runs up the wing which were begging us putting a ball up there, but we kept cutting back and playing it over to the other wing, shame no one noticed him in bags of space.

[Cptn Hooch]

, may even be why he tried Shinnie starting too, trying to rest Anderson so he can start against Hibs, but i'd rather he rotated Panayiotou with Anderson.

I'd imagine that's exactly why Shinnie started up front today and I don't think he did too bad. His natural instinct to drop into the 10 position pulled the CBs out of position allowing Forrest and Sibbald space to exploit. I think Panayiotou has been struggling to get up to speed, it's the only reason I can think of why he wouldn't be playing more. Looked promising today and linked up well with Anderson a couple of times which bodes well. Thought Martindale got his team selection spot on if I'm honest

[LogieLivi]

Shinnie is a fucking ghost. He won absolutely nothing today. 1 on 1 with the keeper and shot straight at Gordon.
Shinnie is such a bizarre signing from us. Signing an attacking midfielder for a team that doesn't play a player in that role. So stick him up front appears to be the option.

Martindales thinking is beyond me at times, but we played exceptionally well for 45 mins today and should have had the game wrapped up before half time.

As usual, individual players get themselves in good positions and f**k it up at the last second.
The others were great saves from Gordon.

I've not held back this season on the podcast about my thoughts on Martindale, but it's so black and white at times.
One game we are excellent and lose and the next shite but get a result.
But that's the teams fault for me and nothing to do with the manager.

We are undoubtedly going down this season and deservedly so from some of the performances so far this season. It'll just be interesting to see what happens in January.

[LIVIFOREVER]

21 minutes ago, Cptn Hooch said:

 

 

I'd imagine that's exactly why Shinnie started up front today and I don't think he did too bad. His natural instinct to drop into the 10 position pulled the CBs out of position allowing Forrest and Sibbald space to exploit. I think Panayiotou has been struggling to get up to speed, it's the only reason I can think of why he wouldn't be playing more. Looked promising today and linked up well with Anderson a couple of times which bodes well. Thought Martindale got his team selection spot on if I'm honest

 

Yeah he's a decent attacking mid, but isn't a goal scoring striker, he isn't going to do the job Anderson does getting us goals. More suited to setting up goals than scoring them.

[LIVIFOREVER]

20 minutes ago, LogieLivi said:

Shinnie is a fucking ghost. He won absolutely nothing today. 1 on 1 with the keeper and shot straight at Gordon.
Shinnie is such a bizarre signing from us. Signing an attacking midfielder for a team that doesn't play a player in that role. So stick him up front appears to be the option.

Martindales thinking is beyond me at times, but we played exceptionally well for 45 mins today and should have had the game wrapped up before half time.

As usual, individual players get themselves in good positions and f**k it up at the last second.
The others were great saves from Gordon.

I've not held back this season on the podcast about my thoughts on Martindale, but it's so black and white at times.
One game we are excellent and lose and the next shite but get a result.
But that's the teams fault for me and nothing to do with the manager.

We are undoubtedly going down this season and deservedly so from some of the performances so far this season. It'll just be interesting to see what happens in January.

Long way to go yet, and imo we'll improve again in January with Nouble coming back from his loan. I really don't think our last 7 games shows we're deservedly going down. Old cliche, we've played worse and won (Ross County away) than we did today. Lots of points to be played for this month, and i'm not convinced Ross County, Dundee, St Johnstone, and even St Mirren, are any better than Livi.

[lennyzer0]

44 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

i'm not convinced Ross County, Dundee, St Johnstone, and even St Mirren, are any better than Livi.

I've seen all of them against Hearts this season and, for all both Ross County and Dundee took a point off us, Livi looked a far better football team than either of  them.

[LogieLivi]

Long way to go yet, and imo we'll improve again in January with Nouble coming back from his loan. I really don't think our last 7 games shows we're deservedly going down. Old cliche, we've played worse and won (Ross County away) than we did today. Lots of points to be played for this month, and i'm not convinced Ross County, Dundee, St Johnstone, and even St Mirren, are any better than Livi.

I'm not having the "Nouble will be our saviour" shtick that most have been banging on about.
What's he realistically done in the last few weeks? No goals and from what I can see, no assists either.

Time will tell, but I genuinely cannot see us finishing above 11th this season.

11th place, Killie in the final.
1-0 Killie - Scott Robinson.

[ol1vercloff]

Do we need a 'half-time teamtalk coach'?  I can't remember the last time we came out in the second half of a game all guns blazing!  The first half was the best I've seen us play in a while, the second half made me consider throwing my season ticket at Martindale!  I'm caressing the panic button now 

Also, hope I'm wrong, but I could have sworn I heard a few monkey chants from the Hearts fans after a chant about Marvin Bartley 

ALSO, do other clubs have away fans sitting among the home crowd, not hiding their celebration when they score?  Or is it just because we're a wee club with no real rivals or fans?  

 

[Durnford]

24 minutes ago, ol1vercloff said:

Do we need a 'half-time teamtalk coach'?  I can't remember the last time we came out in the second half of a game all guns blazing!  The first half was the best I've seen us play in a while, the second half made me consider throwing my season ticket at Martindale!  I'm caressing the panic button now 

Also, hope I'm wrong, but I could have sworn I heard a few monkey chants from the Hearts fans after a chant about Marvin Bartley 

ALSO, do other clubs have away fans sitting among the home crowd, not hiding their celebration when they score?  Or is it just because we're a wee club with no real rivals or fans?  

 

Hospitality has mixed support - also the wee fenced off area to the right of the directors box is for away board member and other officials and family.

[ol1vercloff]

31 minutes ago, Durnford said:

Hospitality has mixed support - also the wee fenced off area to the right of the directors box is for away board member and other officials and family.

Not in the section next to the DBM though surely?

ALSO heard sectarian singing from the Hearts crowd several times.  Does the governing body still do a match report to include things like this to punish clubs?

[Durnford]

P&B keeps crashing for me at the moment so I'll be brief

Shinnie played well in the first half but is no-way a striker with poor acceleration and a top speed inferior to many of the younger defenders. Held the ball up well and harried the back line but wasn't about to race out from an onside position to beat the defenders AKA Hardie et al.

Omeonga was immense in the first half and the decision to take him off really meant that we lost a large part of midfield control. Unless he was totally knackered or injured (didn't appear to be the case) taking him off made no sense.

Forrest had a great first half with a great partnership with McMillan - taking McMillan off broke that and Forrest became significantly less effective in the second half.

Obviously Gordon in goal for the visitors repeatedly kept them in the game but I suppose plaudits should also go to Neilson for recognising the developing problem and taking steps to reinforce the midfield.

I must agree with OliverCloff over the fact that we rarely seem to come out for a second half with all guns blazing. How many times this season have we finished the first half peppering the opposition goal only to come out for the second like we've got another ten minutes warm up.

For all the doom and gloom though, I was disappointed by yesterdays result but not despondent. For large parts of the game we played very well; there's not one of the starting eleven that I could really single out as a poor performer. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by Durnford

[LiviLion]

9 hours ago, LogieLivi said:

I'm not having the "Nouble will be our saviour" shtick that most have been banging on about.
What's he realistically done in the last few weeks? No goals and from what I can see, no assists either.

I'd agree with this. I think he'll be a valuable addition but wondering if people are getting a bit carried away.

Also, knowing Livi fans he'll make one stray pass and be hounded as shite until he leaves the club, purely because they expected 20+ goals from him.

[ol1vercloff]

4 minutes ago, LiviLion said:

I'd agree with this. I think he'll be a valuable addition but wondering if people are getting a bit carried away.

Also, knowing Livi fans he'll make one stray pass and be hounded as shite until he leaves the club, purely because they expected 20+ goals from him.

He does look like he'd actually be an effective target man.  Playing hoofball up to Bruce Anderson is utterly pointless.

[Durnford]

1 hour ago, LiviLion said:

I'd agree with this. I think he'll be a valuable addition but wondering if people are getting a bit carried away.

Also, knowing Livi fans he'll make one stray pass and be hounded as shite until he leaves the club, purely because they expected 20+ goals from him.

Nouble is very much the unknown entity. As far as I am aware he's been spending the majority of his time as attacking left rather than an out-and-out striker. We obviously all also remember that Hamilton really set the heather alight when he was with them but has seriously struggled for pace in the premiership.

Think you're being a bit unfair on Livi fans though. Most are patient and will wait a lot longer than a number of other sides I could think of. I still want to see Hamilton make good - I still remember for about 60 minutes against the buddies in Holt's first game he pretty much continually threw their defence into trauma. Using him as a 70 minute substitute to try and recover a game by playing long ball is never going to work - it doesn't mean though that he's a cr@p forward 

 

[19QOS19]

Nouble is very much the unknown entity. As far as I am aware he's been spending the majority of his time as attacking left rather than an out-and-out striker. We obviously all also remember that Hamilton really set the heather alight when he was with them but has seriously struggled for pace in the premiership.
Think you're being a bit unfair on Livi fans though. Most are patient and will wait a lot longer than a number of other sides I could think of. I still want to see Hamilton make good - I still remember for about 60 minutes against the buddies in Holt's first game he pretty much continually threw their defence into trauma. Using him as a 70 minute substitute to try and recover a game by playing long ball is never going to work - it doesn't mean though that he's a cr@p forward 
 

Nouble is a far better player than Hamilton tbh. He's the best player I've watched this season. Time will tell if he can make the step up but I'm confident he'll be far more effective in the top flight than Hamilton.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, ol1vercloff said:

The first half was the best I've seen us play in a while, the second half made me consider throwing my season ticket at Martindale!

In the second half, chances for Forrest and Montaño could've gone in. Hearts didn't take control until the final 20 minutes as our switch to an expansive 4-4-2 didn't work out against their compact structure.

 

11 hours ago, ol1vercloff said:

Do we need a 'half-time teamtalk coach'?  I can't remember the last time we came out in the second half of a game all guns blazing!

Early second half concessions in home matches has been a huge frustration this season. However, it's likely just coincidence.

With the Hedges Aberdeen goal, Obileye pushed high onto JET when he needn't have and that left a 3 on 2 behind him. Then with the Hearts goal on Sunday, Parkes didn't tuck in fast enough to cover Boyce. For me, these seeming centre back errors are a more meaningful pattern to focus on.

[EdinburghLivi]

23 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

 i'm not convinced Ross County, Dundee, St Johnstone, and even St Mirren, are any better than Livi.

Agree with this. I think we are a striker away from being pretty good and that might be Nouble.

St Johnstone look in a pretty similar position to us (good squad, lack of cutting edge). St. Mirren probably have enough experience and talent to get over the line but I would categorise them similarly. Could be in bother if McGrath leaves in January. 

Ross County and Dundee probably have worse squads than the other three but both have players (Adam, Hungbo to name two) that will cause all teams in the league lots of problems. Also think Mackay will do a good job for County and it wouldn't surprise me if both survive.

 

Lots of good posts in the last few pages. I'm in the Martindale In camp but the substitutions and formations in the last few games have had me tearing my hair out. I wish to f**k he would just keep things simple. 

Yesterday, despite being behind, we were well in the game and still threatening at 0-1. Sibbald went off as he looked tired, fair enough. Why did he feel the need to change the shape and take Forrest (who was excellent) over to the right-wing and completely out the game? Struck me as the desperate actions of a man under pressure and he shouldn't be - we played great for the majority of the game and should have got at least a point. 

Another thing, our attacking set pieces are absolutely brutal. We should try and play it short every time as we never look like winning the ball in the air.