Livingston - all the threads merged

[LIVIFOREVER]

22 hours ago, Durnford said:

Wouldn't be in favour of a ST boycott but a collective delay in renewals could start to get the level of feeling through.

On the other side of the coin; we've had poor managers before; they've all left (or been pushed) sooner or later. Effectively we really need to get the ownership sorted out before anyone with clout can make a decision on hiring and firing.

Yep, i couldn't stand John Hughes and i still went to our games. Was relieved when he fucked off to Hartlepool.

[LIVIFOREVER]

Enjoyed the game today, we played it out of defence with neat passing, instead of the usual hoofball up to Anderson (when he plays) with a big CB lofting over him. When we played it long we gave him a chance chasing the ball and pressuring defenders, and got our opener from him forcing an error and pouncing on it. Nice link up play in midfield too, maybe having the pressure off helped, but was good watching us playing football without nerves.

 

[Freedom Farter]

Rankine seems to have little interest in effecting the running of the club. He seems happy to just be a hands-off owner. He'll be looking for his ownership share to appreciate in value over time with a long term view to selling it. To that end, he'll want the on-field performance of Livi to be as good as possible as that'll increase the value of what he owns. However, he doesn't seem to want much direct involvement in the running of the club.

Hogarth seems to be different and does seem to want a say in how the football club is ran. This isn't new and he was part of decision-making to varying extents for around a decade prior to (I think) 2020. He was most involved when Ged Nixon was the equivalent of what John Ward is now. Here's the Dream Team back in the day:

https://livingstonfc.co.uk/news/news_20100525_3.php

 

Given Nixon and Hogarth were sat together at the recent Trust meeting, it's possible Nixon is again Hogarth's man and therefore who he's looking to replace Ward with. If so, that would get rid of Martindale along with Ward. Ged Nixon would be installed to choose either a head coach and director of football, or just a general manager to do both jobs, and he'd run the business.

Ward budgeted the two seasons prior to this one based on on-field targets which his manager failed to meet. This incurred huge losses. That was bad.

Ged Nixon paid players undeclared bonuses which got the team a points deduction. That was far, far worse. There's also the financial mess Nixon left in his wake. Rankine later admitted he regretted not putting the club into administration again in 2015. Which likely would've killed the club. 

Maybe Nixon isn't being lined up by Hogarth for if his insurgency against the current board succeeds. Maybe they were just sat together because they're pals and its complete coincidence that Nixon has come out the woodwork again at this time. I hope that's all it is. 

[LIVIFOREVER]

Wasn't it Nixon that had the bright idea to sack Bollan and bring in John Hughes and John Collins, that went really well.

[Livi]

35 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said:

Rankine seems to have little interest in effecting the running of the club. He seems happy to just be a hands-off owner. He'll be looking for his ownership share to appreciate in value over time with a long term view to selling it. To that end, he'll want the on-field performance of Livi to be as good as possible as that'll increase the value of what he owns. However, he doesn't seem to want much direct involvement in the running of the club.

Hogarth seems to be different and does seem to want a say in how the football club is ran. This isn't new and he was part of decision-making to varying extents for around a decade prior to (I think) 2020. He was most involved when Ged Nixon was the equivalent of what John Ward is now. Here's the Dream Team back in the day:

https://livingstonfc.co.uk/news/news_20100525_3.php

 

Given Nixon and Hogarth were sat together at the recent Trust meeting, it's possible Nixon is again Hogarth's man and therefore who he's looking to replace Ward with. If so, that would get rid of Martindale along with Ward. Ged Nixon would be installed to choose either a head coach and director of football, or just a general manager to do both jobs, and he'd run the business.

Ward budgeted the two seasons prior to this one based on on-field targets which his manager failed to meet. This incurred huge losses. That was bad.

Ged Nixon paid players undeclared bonuses which got the team a points deduction. That was far, far worse. There's also the financial mess Nixon left in his wake. Rankine later admitted he regretted not putting the club into administration again in 2015. Which likely would've killed the club. 

Maybe Nixon isn't being lined up by Hogarth for if his insurgency against the current board succeeds. Maybe they were just sat together because they're pals and its complete coincidence that Nixon has come out the woodwork again at this time. I hope that's all it is. 

[Freedom Farter]

1 hour ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Wasn't it Nixon that had the bright idea to sack Bollan and bring in John Hughes and John Collins, that went really well.

Sacking Bollan was a shit decision and even worse justification.

I actually think the Collins/Hughes appointments were a good decision by Nixon, I'll credit him there. Hughes was highly thought of at the time even though he didn't do well for Livi once we had him. Collins did do a good job as DoF. He sourced two quality players in Andreu and Tena, especially Andreu who later went on to play at a much higher level. Collins choice of Gareth Evans to succeed Hughes was also a good one but unfortunately Nixon then went over Collins' head and sacked Evans. That caused Collins to walk.

[LIVIFOREVER]

25 minutes ago, Freedom Farter said:

Sacking Bollan was a shit decision and even worse justification.

I actually think the Collins/Hughes appointments were a good decision by Nixon, I'll credit him there. Hughes was highly thought of at the time even though he didn't do well for Livi once we had him. Collins did do a good job as DoF. He sourced two quality players in Andreu and Tena, especially Andreu who later went on to play at a much higher level. Collins choice of Gareth Evans to succeed Hughes was also a good one but unfortunately Nixon then went over Collins' head and sacked Evans. That caused Collins to walk.

Yeah there are still some falling for this about Hughes, on paper he's done well at some clubs, but looking more closely it isn't all it seems. He inherited a good team at ICT and once those players started leaving it turned to shit.

I just didn't rate him and hated his tippy tappy pish style of football, 20 passes when 3 could get you a goal. We were best on the counter playing quick direct football, but anyone trying that got short shrift from him, even when we scored, he instead wanted slow passing football, knocking it about and building an attack. All it did for us was allow the opposition to get into a packed defensive formation, or when we played it out from the keeper, allow them to stay high and pounce on our CB's and mug them.

[Freedom Farter]

21 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Yeah there are still some falling for this about Hughes, on paper he's done well at some clubs, but looking more closely it isn't all it seems. He inherited a good team at ICT and once those players started leaving it turned to shit.

I just didn't rate him and hated his tippy tappy pish style of football, 20 passes when 3 could get you a goal. We were best on the counter playing quick direct football, but anyone trying that got short shrift from him, even when we scored, he instead wanted slow passing football, knocking it about and building an attack. All it did for us was allow the opposition to get into a packed defensive formation, or when we played it out from the keeper, allow them to stay high and pounce on our CB's and mug them.

Oh, no argument there from me. Hughes was awful for us. I was meaning that at the outset when he was appointed, it seemed a good idea. I remember feeling we'd actually pulled off a bit of a coup because Hughes was widely seen as a top tier manager yet we'd got him in the second tier.

The playing style he was trying to implement didn't really exist in football. Tiki-taka was all the rage at the time and its like Hughes was trying to do that while not understanding it. The key to tiki taka was keeping possession. That often involved dribbling when no pass was available. Hughes thought it only meant passing. He limited players to two touches then demanded they pass regardless of circumstance. Panicked players were just passing immediately when no pass was on so we constantly lost possession. Hughes also brought Scougall back into deep midfield to try and perform a Pirlo role for us. That was useless and wasted Scougall, whose main attributes were his acceleration and dribbling, best used in the attacking third. Fan favourite Bobby Barr and enthusiastic youth player Dylan Easton both got turfed for the crime of dribbling. Aye, Hughes was a frustrating manager for us.

Edited April 27 by Freedom Farter

[EdinburghLivi]

I really wish journalists would do their jobs and ask more specifically about the players out at the moment and when they are likely to be back.

Current list going by Martindale's comments after the game are: Donnellan, Montano, Penrice, Shinnie, Bradley, Nouble and Guthrie. It looks like Obileye might be added to that.

Given our position, I don't think there needs to be any secrecy if they are indeed injured. 

[Freedom Farter]

37 minutes ago, EdinburghLivi said:

 

I really wish journalists would do their jobs and ask more specifically about the players out at the moment and when they are likely to be back.

Current list going by Martindale's comments after the game are: Donnellan, Montano, Penrice, Shinnie, Bradley, Nouble and Guthrie. It looks like Obileye might be added to that.

Given our position, I don't think there needs to be any secrecy if they are indeed injured. 

While its frustrating, I've always accepted it assuming its to keep opposition managers in the dark. Yet as you point out, that's irrelevant now so might as well just give us the full injury statuses. Especially for the players you mention with a chance of still being at the club next season.

[DA Baracus]

Add me to the "f**k John Hughes"* club.

 

*Will never call the c**t 'Yogi' as a nickname suggests affection and I have fucking zero of that for him in regards to his (abysmal, shocking, disgusting) time as our manager.

 

[Cptn Hooch]

8 hours ago, EdinburghLivi said:

 

I really wish journalists would do their jobs and ask more specifically about the players out at the moment and when they are likely to be back.

Current list going by Martindale's comments after the game are: Donnellan, Montano, Penrice, Shinnie, Bradley, Nouble and Guthrie. It looks like Obileye might be added to that.

Given our position, I don't think there needs to be any secrecy if they are indeed injured. 

The last few months have really highlighted just how good Callum Carson's coverage of the team was.

 

Donnellan has been a miss and hopefully we get to see him again before the end of the season

Montano is perma-injured and, as good as he's been, is one I'd be looking to offload unless we can get him on a performance based deal

Penrice had an op not long ago and I'd be amazed if we saw him again outside of a cameo appearance in the last game to get a farewell

Nouble wouldn't surprise me if he's gone hiding. When Martindale made a comment about some players not having the heart for it, I thought of Joel. We'll always have his first season and a half

Guthrie made the bench yesterday but seems to be another who is always picking up niggly injuries

Bradley....another with niggly injuries and that has impacted any growth in his performance as he's not had a settled run in the side

Shinnie doesn't strike me as the type who would go hiding when needed so hopefully he can return in the next wee while

 

Edited April 28 by Cptn Hooch

[btb]

 

8 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

Add me to the "f**k John Hughes"* club.

*Will never call the c**t 'Yogi' as a nickname suggests affection and I have fucking zero of that for him in regards to his (abysmal, shocking, disgusting) time as our manager.

Still hold a grudge from when Hughes was playing for Falkirk and said in the press that he'd take and miss a penalty to help out Ayr with whom we were in a relegation battle -fuck John Hughes!

[Livi]

1 hour ago, Cptn Hooch said:

The last few months have really highlighted just how good Callum Carson's coverage of the team was.

I am not sure i agree. Carson i believe was just too close to the club. As a local sports reporter he must have known about the off field ownership issues in court and yet chose to blank them out. Sometimes you felt it was more about him than the club.

 

[Livi]

9 hours ago, EdinburghLivi said:

 

I really wish journalists would do their jobs and ask more specifically about the players out at the moment and when they are likely to be back.

Current list going by Martindale's comments after the game are: Donnellan, Montano, Penrice, Shinnie, Bradley, Nouble and Guthrie. It looks like Obileye might be added to that.

Given our position, I don't think there needs to be any secrecy if they are indeed injured. 

He treats the Livi fans like Mushrooms. (Kept in the dark and fed sh!t) 

[Livi La Vida Loca]

53 minutes ago, Livi said:

I am not sure i agree. Carson i believe was just too close to the club. As a local sports reporter he must have known about the off field ownership issues in court and yet chose to blank them out. Sometimes you felt it was more about him than the club.

You've said some wild things and usually I leave well alone but that's nonsense. 

Carson provided excellent coverage. When it comes to court cases of course nothing was printed in the paper because the cases are ongoing. You'll notice that the larger papers, even the Sun haven't reported extensively on our off field issues because as a journalist that's career suicide and a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Absolutely no idea when Carson made it about himself and he would do what he could via the FB forum to relay what information he could. 

You'll be lucky if we ever get as much coverage as he provided ever again. 

[Dons_1988]

Why do I have absolutely no memory of John Hughes being livi manager? 

[SlipperyP]

12 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Why do I have absolutely no memory of John Hughes being livi manager? 

Highest win percentage of his managerial career. 44.4

 

[LiviLion]

10 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

Add me to the "f**k John Hughes"* club.

 

*Will never call the c**t 'Yogi' as a nickname suggests affection and I have fucking zero of that for him in regards to his (abysmal, shocking, disgusting) time as our manager.

 

Funnily enough my most harrowing memory of his time with us was away to Dunfermline. Andy McNeil passing it out to a defender (seem to remember Jesus Garcia Tena in particular having a howler), couple passes between them and then just hoofing it. Dunfermline caught on pretty quick and just had our defenders marked at goal kicks, Hughes still wouldn't let McNeil play it long and we ended up losing 4-0.

[LIVIFOREVER]

38 minutes ago, LiviLion said:

Funnily enough my most harrowing memory of his time with us was away to Dunfermline. Andy McNeil passing it out to a defender (seem to remember Jesus Garcia Tena in particular having a howler), couple passes between them and then just hoofing it. Dunfermline caught on pretty quick and just had our defenders marked at goal kicks, Hughes still wouldn't let McNeil play it long and we ended up losing 4-0.

Iiir their manager even said pre match how we played, and during the game McNeil shrugged his shoulders at the fans shouting to him to stop passing it out from the back. He knew if he didn't follow instructions he'd be castigated, like Bobby Barr was, sent to East Fife. Even if we occasionally sent it long, just so we weren't so predictable, and the opposition strikers wouldn't know to stay up the pitch waiting for us to pass it our from the keeper. 

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

Why do I have absolutely no memory of John Hughes being livi manager? 

Lucky you, wish i had no memory of it too.

2 hours ago, Livi La Vida Loca said:

You've said some wild things and usually I leave well alone but that's nonsense. 

Carson provided excellent coverage. When it comes to court cases of course nothing was printed in the paper because the cases are ongoing. You'll notice that the larger papers, even the Sun haven't reported extensively on our off field issues because as a journalist that's career suicide and a lawsuit waiting to happen.

Absolutely no idea when Carson made it about himself and he would do what he could via the FB forum to relay what information he could. 

You'll be lucky if we ever get as much coverage as he provided ever again. 

Yeah he's said that about Callum Carson before when i praised him for the coverage on Livi, best we've ever had. He obv had to have a certain amount of diplomacy reporting on all things Livi, and not be overly critical, but thought he was pretty honest in his critique, certainly very informative and gave a good match report on our performance.