Livingston - all the threads merged

[Dunning1874]

I think I've cracked it. When he talks about putting 2 million of his own money into the club, is it possible that he actually thinks the Lira still exists?

Edited June 22, 2009 by Dunning1874

[Guest]

Please explain to me what is wrong with the older people you refer to above jumping on the Livi bandwagon when they came to town? I'm imagining the majority of them were armchair OF or Hibs/Hearts fans who were contributing nothing to the Scottish game financially, but now have done for the past 15 years.

Surely anyone deciding to support a "diddy" team rather than the OF or nobody at all can only have been good for the game?

Depends on your perspective. The other edge of the sword is that by supporting a club that has continuously put paying bills a distant second to courting "success", they have inflicted more harm than good to the game.

It is very hard to distance Joe Public from Livingston FC. That the club and all who sail in her have been tainted (if not thoroughly undercoated) with the brush of deceit and corruption for many years, its not something that can be laid at the door of the support. What you can say is that their inability to listen to anything other than their own self assuring drivel marks them out as being some way short of worldly wise, and a million miles away from the intellectuals many believe themselves to be. Collectively, they have come up with some breathtaking excuses and reasoning to deny what was painfully obvious to everyone else.

For example, Hugh Scott was a tyrant of equal measure at Morton. There was always a sense that the Morton support were well and truly galvanized in their opposition to him, and that was reflected in the support for their cause across virtually every club.

With Livingston however, there has been this awful parasitical alignment between the chancers in charge and the support. They have always failed to be seen as anything other than the unquestioning devotees of whoever would spend money on the team...... regardless of the consequences.

They have never been comfortable in the role of "the average fan".

The sneering disregard for the supporters of other clubs during the "spend spend spend" years has not been forgotten, nor that a whole load of people lost money five years ago (me included) in the previous round of administration.

That the club has rubbed salt into wounds that haven't fully healed by marching straight back into major debt, is simply not acceptable. Livingston entered the last chance saloon when they left admin the last time with no footballing penalties at all for their wrongdoing. That across the board sympathy for the plight of the support is thin on the ground, is by any measure, perfectly understandable.

Just as the Livi support "don't do contrition", then those that have been wronged by Livingston in the past "don't do sympathy".

Edited June 22, 2009 by Guest

[Ivo den Bieman]

^^ excellent post, that's pretty much how I feel about Livingston in a nutshell.

I agree with the Meadowbank stuff KotS has outlined above but whilst I wouldn't go to Livingston owing to my opposition to franchising, I wouldn't exactly blame others for taking a different choice. The Meadowbank thing is beginning to be a bit abstract for those who weren't there/didn't notice and I;m not sure that rehearsing this stuff endlessly gets us anywhere.

As a fan I can feel a little bit of sympathy for the supporters who've watched the club since they were moved in '95, and since, a club going out of business is a horrible thing.

That said if Livi do go bust I won't shed a single tear at the death of the club itself.

[Conway Twitty]

I wonder if the mighty FC Vaduz of Leichtenstein still hold a grudge against livi?

[port-ton]

None of that explains why they would give a f'ck as to how the club came into being.

I enjoy the game of football, and couldn't care less about football politics. I wasted enough attending dozens of meeting when Airdrieonians were hitting the skids to know that I have absolutely no interest in the internal workings of clubs.

If at the age of 12, I'd found out that Hitler, Mussolini and Pol Pot had previously sat on the board of Airdrieonians, that wouldn't have prevented me from following the team. A 12 year old Livvy fan should bear no guilt over shit that they have sod all responsibility for.

You're an Airdrie fan, are you sure they didn't?

[jimbo]

I wonder if the mighty FC Vaduz of Leichtenstein still hold a grudge against livi?

Aye probably. Everybody else does.

[LLD]

I think I've cracked it. When he talks about putting 2 million of his own money into the club, is it possible that he actually thinks the Lira still exists?

Aye, Turkish.

Note to pedants: yes I know Turkish Lira has now been revalued.

[Mr Tourette]

Depends on your perspective. The other edge of the sword is that by supporting a club that has continuously put paying bills a distant second to courting "success", they have inflicted more harm than good to the game.

It is very hard to distance Joe Public from Livingston FC. That the club and all who sail in her have been tainted (if not thoroughly undercoated) with the brush of deceit and corruption for many years, its not something that can be laid at the door of the support. What you can say is that their inability to listen to anything other than their own self assuring drivel marks them out as being some way short of worldly wise, and a million miles away from the intellectuals many believe themselves to be. Collectively, they have come up with some breathtaking excuses and reasoning to deny what was painfully obvious to everyone else.

For example, Hugh Scott was a tyrant of equal measure at Morton. There was always a sense that the Morton support were well and truly galvanized in their opposition to him, and that was reflected in the support for their cause across virtually every club.

With Livingston however, there has been this awful parasitical alignment between the chancers in charge and the support. They have always failed to be seen as anything other than the unquestioning devotees of whoever would spend money on the team...... regardless of the consequences.

They have never been comfortable in the role of "the average fan".

The sneering disregard for the supporters of other clubs during the "spend spend spend" years has not been forgotten, nor that a whole load of people lost money five years ago (me included) in the previous round of administration.

That the club has rubbed salt into wounds that haven't fully healed by marching straight back into major debt, is simply not acceptable. Livingston entered the last chance saloon when they left admin the last time with no footballing penalties at all for their wrongdoing. That across the board sympathy for the plight of the support is thin on the ground, is by any measure, perfectly understandable.

Just as the Livi support "don't do contrition", then those that have been wronged by Livingston in the past "don't do sympathy".

I have no sympathy whatsoever for Livingston as a club and will not be shedding any tears if or when they go bust (again). I remember when they raped the 1st and 2nd division clubs (including us) of all their best players during their rise to the SPL. The fact that it later transpired that all of this was achieved using money they didn't have, made it all the more galling. Gretna did the same thing but at least that was Brookson's money they were spunking.

The point I was making was that it is surely no bad thing if any club (even if it is Livingston) can draw ex-armchair OF fans to a game on a Saturday?

[ObserverFromAfar]

Another "amusing" insight on livinews.co.uk..

http://livinews.wordpress.com/2009/06/24/s...ny-for-massone/

If true, who actually owns this car, who pays for it (personally by Massone, or through some account somewhere) and how is it paid for (rent/paid in full up front (not likely I assume)? Looks like the outstanding fines are equivalent to a months rent on the town house.

Maybe a donation bucket or paypal account could be set up for his trabvel funds.

It would be better to get him a bus ticket - £77 for Edinburgh to Livingston for a month.

http://www.firstgroup.com/ukbus/scotland/s.../first4week.php

Though I don't expect that would include a bus connection for his weekly airport trips. Could we perhaps get some P&B reasers to volunteer to do the airport runs and get some good stories from him in return? I'll see if we can get a rota set-up.

Edited to remove a rogue "and"

Edited June 24, 2009 by ObserverFromAfar

[KingfaetheSooth]

I see that yet another Livi supporter group has issued a statement on the livilions forum condemning Massolini - they have more supporter groups than they have fans.

Massolini has been warned - do not mess with the Livi Drum Beat Mafia!

[ObserverFromAfar]

And now, the main sponsor has had enough and called off their sponsorship deal.

http://www.livingstonfc.co.uk/news/240709%...nnouncement.pdf

[Larbert_Par]

I think it was us who relegated them at Almondvale. I am not 100% sure of that though but I thought we did when Barry Wilson scored the only goal of the game.

Apparently there is a poll on LiviLions running asking fans if they want Massolini to stay or go.

*Check out post 40*

[Guest]

I just noticed that P&B posters are now regarded as "the six fingered brigade" over on LiviLions site. It simply has got to cut us deep to know that a pair of informed insightful and respected LiviLions posters view this site in such a way. They are renowned for having their finger (one of five I presume), on the pulse of reality, so to everyone who posts on P&B..........wake up, we've been sussed by the "influential Drum Beat Mafia". You couldn't make this stuff up. To steal that old political put down and make it plural, it feels as if we're being mauled by sheep. There's a bit of me starting to think they deserve all they get. There are obvious exceptions, but they really are shaping up as a bunch of clueless nuggets.

Edited June 24, 2009 by Guest

[The ghost of Jim Morton]

I just noticed that P&B posters are now regarded as "the six fingered brigade" over on LiviLions site. It simply has got to cut us deep to know that a pair of informed insightful and respected LiviLions posters view this site in such a way. They are renowned for having their finger (one of five I presume), on the pulse of reality, so to everyone who posts on P&B..........wake up, we've been sussed by the "influential Drum Beat Mafia". You couldn't make this stuff up. To steal that old political put down and make it plural, it feels as if we're being mauled by sheep. There's a bit of me starting to think they deserve all they get. There are obvious exceptions, but they really are shaping up as a bunch of clueless nuggets.

I've got six fingers and then some more.. as I suspect most have on here. Is it the case that some Livi posters have less than 6 fingers..

[Homer Thompson]

I have no sympathy whatsoever for Livingston as a club and will not be shedding any tears if or when they go bust (again). I remember when they raped the 1st and 2nd division clubs (including us) of all their best players during their rise to the SPL. The fact that it later transpired that all of this was achieved using money they didn't have, made it all the more galling. Gretna did the same thing but at least that was Brookson's money they were spunking.

The point I was making was that it is surely no bad thing if any club (even if it is Livingston) can draw ex-armchair OF fans to a game on a Saturday?

Err ... no it wasnt, thats why they went into administration.

And now, the main sponsor has had enough and called off their sponsorship deal.

http://www.livingstonfc.co.uk/news/240709%...nnouncement.pdf

No word on the restructuring I see

[Tonsilitis]

If the £280k rent due by next Tuesday is not paid, I wonder what the council will do? My guesses would be

Most likely: Evict Livi from Almondvale. Result a club with no ground cannot fulfil its fixtures and would be kicked out the league. No one is likely to ground share with them for fear of not getting paid and, in any event, where is the nearest suitable ground? Motherwell?. Airdrie?

Next most likely: Winding up petition - would take a few weeks to get into place leading to problems with Livi maybe playing a few games before finally folding.

Outside bet: Admin order: possible but difficult for a creditor to get without cooperation of company. Offers probably the only hope of anything resembling a football club emerging but almost certainly a third division club.

[AND180Y]

If the £280k rent due by next Tuesday is not paid, I wonder what the council will do? My guesses would be

Most likely: Evict Livi from Almondvale. Result a club with no ground cannot fulfil its fixtures and would be kicked out the league. No one is likely to ground share with them for fear of not getting paid and, in any event, where is the nearest suitable ground? Motherwell?. Airdrie?

Next most likely: Winding up petition - would take a few weeks to get into place leading to problems with Livi maybe playing a few games before finally folding.

Outside bet: Admin order: possible but difficult for a creditor to get without cooperation of company. Offers probably the only hope of anything resembling a football club emerging but almost certainly a third division club.

Eviction, the council would have to go to court to throw them out though and he would defend it so probably would run for months.

Winding up petition, again he would defend/seek an adjournment so probably looking at 3 - 6 months for that to kick in, if at all.

Admin, would an IP take the appointment given that there is no money for his fees?

Something needs to be sorted one way or another with Livi and it needs to be soon to let other clubs get organised.

[Chuckinho]

I guess then that as has been the case all along, that someone will have to get some gumption and hold AM accountable, be it the Council on Tuesday or the SFL. If they are allowed to start the season, then the SFL really have rocks in their heads and the financial cost to other clubs from losing two home gates won't go down well.

[Mr Tourette]

Err ... no it wasnt, thats why they went into administration

I thought they went into admin when Brookson was ill and couldn't carry on bailing them out with his own money? So was it Gretna's or Brookson's money they were spunking?

[lyle be back]

And now, the main sponsor has had enough and called off their sponsorship deal.

http://www.livingstonfc.co.uk/news/240709%...nnouncement.pdf

What I find funny about that is that 'RDF ...will not be taking up their option of sponsoring Livingston next season' reconciles with 'we have a strong relationship with RDF and they are committed to supporting the club next season' in Massolini's eyes.

So committed that they have decided not to sponsor the club.