Livingston - all the threads merged

[Cptn Hooch]

1 minute ago, EdinburghLivi said:

Agreed. Shamal also not doing much to stop the chances when they are coming through. Hopefully hyped up enough by the media that someone comes in for him and doesn't notice.

The 1st is a cracking finish, the second he makes a mess of and the 3rd he saves the initial effort but is let down again by a lazy defence

[EdinburghLivi]

14 minutes ago, Cptn Hooch said:

The 1st is a cracking finish, the second he makes a mess of and the 3rd he saves the initial effort but is let down again by a lazy defence

2nd was piss poor but I was talking across the season. Maybe I'm expecting too much but there have been very few games that have justified a fee over us playing someone like Stryjek or Konovalov.

Kicking has been absolutely rank.

[Cptn Hooch]

28 minutes ago, EdinburghLivi said:

2nd was piss poor but I was talking across the season. Maybe I'm expecting too much but there have been very few games that have justified a fee over us playing someone like Stryjek or Konovalov.

Kicking has been absolutely rank.

His kicking is 50-50 usually but has been especially poor recently. Max and Ivan didn't want to be here, Shamal does

[Durnford]

20 hours ago, ATLIS said:

The thing is though, we aren't budgeting for the home stand having more than 1k in the first place. If you're taking things in context though, 5/6 years ago we had a season ticket base of 700, now it's likely around 1,000. That's around 42% up is it not? It'd place us having 1,420 in 5 years, 10 years we're at just over 2,000. Nothing to say that it's a trend that will follow and a lot can happen but we're trending upwards. 

Is what we've budgeted for this year really relevant? Effectively we're losing money and continue to do so. This will impact our budget for next year unless we get a cash injection from somewhere.

 

[Durnford]

1 hour ago, EdinburghLivi said:

Defence selling the rest of the team down the river at the moment. Absolutely awful since that Inverness game.

Cant help thinking that a number of players have lost their focus once it started to be known they probably wouldn't be here next season.

[LIVIFOREVER]

4 hours ago, EdinburghLivi said:

Defence selling the rest of the team down the river at the moment. Absolutely awful since that Inverness game.

 

4 hours ago, Cptn Hooch said:

I don't know who taught them how to play the offside trap but they are rotten at it

It's this high line, wondering if that's Berra's coaching, but we're getting caught out so easily by teams hitting balls in behind us, and just beating us in a foot race. ICT ripped us apart doing it, so did Hibs with Youan, St Mirren humped us down the right wing/our left, then Motherwell today, we are just a soft touch to play against now. 

The way Martindale is setting us up really isn't helping either right enough, as we have absolutely no goal threat with Guthrie and Nouble playing for balls being lumped up the pitch to them. He needs to ditch this shit or we'll end up 9th, with St Johnstone getting above us too, really wouldn't shock me if we lose to them next week too, it's becoming a trait with us, losing to direct competition, then they climb above us.

Edited April 8, 2023 by LIVIFOREVER

[ATLIS]

4 hours ago, Durnford said:

Is what we've budgeted for this year really relevant? Effectively we're losing money and continue to do so. This will impact our budget for next year unless we get a cash injection from somewhere.

 

Except no, we aren't. The losses we have are from anomalies. It's the loss of attendance revenue due to COVID. It's very unlikely those losses will be repeated and we have a government loan to cover it. No injection is needed.

[ropy]

You seemed to play with two target men today and nobody anywhere near them to pick up the pieces.  Maybe a big one and a mobile one would be a better combination.

[LIVIFOREVER]

15 minutes ago, ropy said:

You seemed to play with two target men today and nobody anywhere near them to pick up the pieces.  Maybe a big one and a mobile one would be a better combination.

You know that, all us Livi fans know that, just try getting it through Martindales skull that we need Anderson playing off Guthrie and Nouble when we're setting up like this.

 

I said this last weekend after watching us do the same against St Mirren, Guthrie was doing ok laying balls off, or heading them on, but there was nobody running past him getting onto them, Pittman was trying, but just wasn't managing it. We play our best stuff using wingers and cutting in from the wings, in a front 3 with Nouble one wing and Bradley/Bahamboula the other, with wingbacks doing overlaps.

It was far too slow and one dimensional today, nobody making runs or doing overlaps. In contrast Motherwell had plenty movement with players making runs in behind us, and cut us open for your goals, with quick passing and running onto the ball, not giving us time to get into a defensive shape.

 

We showed a bit of improvement when Bahamboula came on, him and Devlin were hitting the bye line, Kelly made a couple of decent runs too, and Nouble hit the bye line and shot into the side netting when Anderson was waiting on the cut back for a tap in, it was too little too late though. We need set up with mobile wingers and wingbacks, and Anderson up front, who is our quickest and most mobile striker.

[LiviLion]

Maybe a bit reactionary but seeing as we've packed in top 6 (as per Martindale's own admission), I wouldn't have a problem with us only playing guys who are contracted for next season.

George

Brandon  -  Luiyi  -  Boyes  -  Montano

Holt/Se.Kelly  -  St.Kelly

Bahamboula  -  Pittman  -  Bradley

Anderson

Tempted to go for something like that next week, shake things up a bit. Nouble replacing Bahamboula when their defence is a bit knackered, Penrice and one of Holt or Sean Kelly to shore things up defensively if need be. Wouldn't be against seeing the odd academy player coming off the bench too.

[LIVIFOREVER]

Is Montano injured, wasn't in the squad today.

 

I'd wait till after the split before leaving out the players that wont be here next season. Although top 6 is not very likely, and we're now looking on Hibs Hibsing it in their next 2  or 3 games, and us actually being able to win our remaining fixtures, there's still an outside chance, and the higher up we can finish gets us greater prize money.

[RandomGuy.]

11 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

He needs to ditch this shit or we'll end up 9th, with St Johnstone getting above us too.

I wouldnt worry about that.

Wpuld require us taking 8+ points from 7 games, and we have 8 from our last 14 as it stands. We've been absolutely battered by both Kilmarnock and County in the past month.

[Guest]

With the 3-5-2 in these last two matches:

Guthrie as a central target man in a 3-5-2 was the wrong choice. His game is one and two touch lay offs from long or aerial passes into him. He needs players around him for that to be effective so he's best when we're getting players forward against a low defensive line. So home matches when we're on top. Not away when the opposition are the ones taking the initiative and Guthrie is isolated with nobody to lay off to. His presence also focused our attacking down the centre of the pitch and it was obvious Motherwell had noticed that from the St Mirren game as they clogged central lanes yesterday, seen clearly when Devlin's pass was cut out leading to the counter attack for their first goal. Anderson should've played these two matches instead. Nouble and Anderson should've been told to peel wide left and wide right, how Dolly Menga and Scott Robinson did as forwards in the 18/19 3-5-2 team. That'd have stretched out the opposition back three which will've created spaces centrally for a Pittman/Stephen Kelly and the other forward to arrive into. It's also safer in terms of counter attacks to knock long passes into high wide areas than try to play down the middle, again how Motherwell's first goal yesterday showed.

The centre midfield and the wingbacks were fine in both games. The left footed Bradley at right wing back was a surprise but Steven Lawless was brilliant for us with that same profile in that same position so it can work. Penrice broke the offside line for Motherwell's third yesterday but I more blame Fitzwater for trying to play such a high line when it wasn't necessary and there was no pressure on the Motherwell midfielder making the pass.

Central defence. Firstly, we shouldn't have been playing three centre backs. While it made sense tactically, it didn't make sense when you consider our available players. Boyes had only three months first team experience going into these games and De Lucas only two matches. Fitzwater has had an inconsistent season. So sticking an extra centre back in the team when its the weakest squad area was a bad choice. Fitzwater is best at defending in the right half space, not in the centre of the pitch. He'd be great on the right of a back three but he really struggled in the middle. Obileye is needed for that role. De Lucas was sold down the river a bit by being made to play right then left of a back three. Not his position and an unfair ask of a new player in the team. He'd have been better in the middle where his tactical remit would've been reduced and made more manageable. Boyes was the least bad of the centre backs against St Mirren so I don't know why he was dropped for Motherwell.

Edited April 9, 2023 by FreedomFarter

[LIVIFOREVER]

1 hour ago, FreedomFarter said:

With the 3-5-2 in these last two matches:

Guthrie as a central target man in a 3-5-2 was the wrong choice. His game is one and two touch lay offs from long or aerial passes into him. He needs players around him for that to be effective so he's best when we're getting players forward against a low defensive line. So home matches when we're on top. Not away when the opposition are the ones taking the initiative and Guthrie is isolated with nobody to lay off to. His presence also focused our attacking down the centre of the pitch and it was obvious Motherwell had noticed that from the St Mirren game as they clogged central lanes yesterday, seen clearly when Devlin's pass was cut out leading to the counter attack for their first goal. Anderson should've played these two matches instead. Nouble and Anderson should've been told to peel wide left and wide right, how Dolly Menga and Scott Robinson did as forwards in the 18/19 3-5-2 team. That'd have stretched out the opposition back three which will've created spaces centrally for a Pittman/Stephen Kelly and the other forward to arrive into. It's also safer in terms of counter attacks to knock long passes into high wide areas than try to play down the middle, again how Motherwell's first goal yesterday showed.

The centre midfield and the wingbacks were fine in both games. The left footed Bradley at right wing back was a surprise but Steven Lawless was brilliant for us with that same profile in that same position so it can work. Penrice broke the offside line for Motherwell's third yesterday but I more blame Fitzwater for trying to play such a high line when it wasn't necessary and there was no pressure on the Motherwell midfielder making the pass.

Central defence. Firstly, we shouldn't have been playing three centre backs. While it made sense tactically, it didn't make sense when you consider our available players. Boyes had only three months first team experience going into these games and De Lucas only two matches. Fitzwater has had an inconsistent season. So sticking an extra centre back in the team when its the weakest squad area was a bad choice. Fitzwater is best at defending in the right half space, not in the centre of the pitch. He'd be great on the right of a back three but he really struggled in the middle. Obileye is needed for that role. De Lucas was sold down the river a bit by being made to play right then left of a back three. Not his position and an unfair ask of a new player in the team. He'd have been better in the middle where his tactical remit would've been reduced and made more manageable. Boyes was the least bad of the centre backs against St Mirren so I don't know why he was dropped for Motherwell.

Any way you could apply for a position in the coaching staff, working on tactics?

 

We can all see where it isn't working, and yeah it's also hindsight doing analysis after the game, like pundits getting paid for moving players around when they know what the other team's going to do, but we all saw it against St Mirren, yet we basically tried the same tactics against Motherwell. It's brutal to watch, because we just know we aren't getting back in the game once the first goal is conceded, because we wont change anything till the 70th minute. 

The players even look bewildered on what to do with the ball in attack, slowly moving it about side to side, then backwards as we're pressed, and either end up lumping it towards Guthrie, or back to Shamal for him to lump it up the pitch. The only times we've looked remotely threatening is after we sub on the attacking player with 20 mins to go, after we're 3-0 down.

 

I was watching yesterday wondering just what exactly does Martindale see happening 2nd half when we go in 3 goals down and sticking with the same set up, why wont he change anything, he's an astute guy when you listen to him talking tactics, but the last 2 games i just can't fathom him out. It's also quite obvious opposition managers have sussed us out in these games, even Nouble has looked a pale imitation of the player we know he can be, he's being played wrong and easy to deal with.

Motherwell under Kettlewell is a prime example of what a team looks like when players are deployed in positions that suit them, just now we're a prime example of a team doing the opposite.

[LIVIFOREVER]

3 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

I wouldnt worry about that.

Wpuld require us taking 8+ points from 7 games, and we have 8 from our last 14 as it stands. We've been absolutely battered by both Kilmarnock and County in the past month.

Well you'll likely get 3 of them against us next week.

[RandomGuy.]

12 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Well you'll likely get 3 of them against us next week.

Aye, thats what Ross County fans thought.

[LiviLion]

5 hours ago, FreedomFarter said:

Boyes was the least bad of the centre backs against St Mirren so I don't know why he was dropped for Motherwell.

Think he had a dead leg through the week or something like that. Agree with the rest of your post too; I have no problems with a back 3/5 in principle (just look at how well it served us for a few years there), but you need the right players and in a suitable role for their abilities.

[LIVIFOREVER]

Utd beating Hibs and keeping our top 6 chances alive, dirty sadistic barstewards that they are.

[Durnford]

48 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Utd beating Hibs and keeping our top 6 chances alive, dirty sadistic barstewards that they are.

Was thinking the same - raising false hope again.

[LiviLion]

1 hour ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Utd beating Hibs and keeping our top 6 chances alive, dirty sadistic barstewards that they are.

Had just sent a message to a mate that a part of me wanted Hibs to get a late winner so I don't have to spend the next week slowly getting more hopeful and excited.

Then United scored, f**k it - Europe is back on!