Livingston - all the threads merged

[Durnford]

5 hours ago, LiviLion said:

Martindale update on Aphelele Teto

Looks like instead of a loan, Teto will (hopefully) get a call up to the South Africa U23 squad and Martindale is hoping that'll be enough for a work permit. I'm not convinced.

I read somewhere that South Africa aren't high enough in the world rankings to guarantee a work permit even if he was part of the senior squad.

Mind you its such a complicated, grey, area who can predict the outcome.

[The Wrong Car]

In terms of McIlvogue, I'm naturally sceptical about anyone who wants to own a football team at this level. Keeping Martindale and increasing our revenue to keep better players in a sustainable way isn't the worst idea, and the idea that a football club owns its own stadium shouldn't be a concern (however previous owners have made it so) I don't think that ambition alone is the big 'gotcha' moment that some fans think it is when it comes to McIlvogue's motives

However it does feel like he would be criticised either way. If he came out brashly saying he'll buy the stadium, fund the team and maintain us at Premiership level, he'd be delusional. If he said he wanted to keep the status quo and see where it takes us, he'd be accused of lacking ambition by some fans

 

[LiviLion]

1 hour ago, The Wrong Car said:

However it does feel like he would be criticised either way. If he came out brashly saying he'll buy the stadium, fund the team and maintain us at Premiership level, he'd be delusional. If he said he wanted to keep the status quo and see where it takes us, he'd be accused of lacking ambition by some fans

This is the main thing for me, I'm sure it wasn't long ago that folk on that Facebook page were talking about how great it would be to own the stadium (sure Martindale mentioned it a couple weeks back as well which was met with agreement), but now that McIlvogue has mentioned it it's a massive red flag?

The 'positive' part for me is that the things he mentioned are geared towards the club making more money in the future (more commercial activity, improving the academy and women's team etc), rather than him just saying he's going to pump money into the playing budget.

I'd still like some kind of Q&A once he's settled so that some more questions can get answered and we can get a better idea of his actual plans to take the club forward; next year, next 5 years, 10 years etc.

[LIVIFOREVER]

I'm more suspicious than critical of our new owner, past owners have taken advantage of our loyalty and emotional attachment to the club, it tends to blind you because you want so much to believe everything will be great, the last one almost put us into liquidation though*, which is going to make it tough for this one to make believers of us. 

 

*only reason we didn't was the Council owning the stadium stopped him.

Edited October 5, 2023 by LIVIFOREVER

[mozam76]

I don't see anything in the guy's profile, be it company history or in the media, which says to me that he has the resources to a) buy what I can only imagine would be a multi million pound asset from the local authority and all of the subsequent costs that come with it, and/or b) write off six figure losses incurred by the football club. Our budget is wafer thin as it is, and we're losing that sum each season as soon as we switch the lights on. 

It's been said before by others and it's been remiss of me not to say it before now, but the saving grace for me is him keeping John Ward and Dave Black in post. I can't think of anyone better to be in there whilst this is happening.  

[Durnford]

11 minutes ago, mozam76 said:

I don't see anything in the guy's profile, be it company history or in the media, which says to me that he has the resources to a) buy what I can only imagine would be a multi million pound asset from the local authority and all of the subsequent costs that come with it, and/or b) write off six figure losses incurred by the football club. Our budget is wafer thin as it is, and we're losing that sum each season as soon as we switch the lights on. 

It's been said before by others and it's been remiss of me not to say it before now, but the saving grace for me is him keeping John Ward and Dave Black in post. I can't think of anyone better to be in there whilst this is happening.  

I know. I try to be positive but remember what it was like the last time we had a Celtic supporter as owner. At the very least he should update his Facebook profile.

Remember though that the profile from Companies House only lists his roles on the board of directors. It doesn't show any ownership in companies where he doesn't hold an executive position hence his involvement in JVL, the consortium that bought up  Mortons Rolls assets,  isn't shown. 

It also occurs to me that buying a controlling share on Livingston could end up being a shrewd move. Previously we apparently had at least two American bidders but they were put off by the ongoing court cases. If McIlvogue can clear that then perhaps they could be interested again? In order for that to work though there would need to be a period of stability.

[LIVIFOREVER]

1 hour ago, Durnford said:

I know. I try to be positive but remember what it was like the last time we had a Celtic supporter as owner. At the very least he should update his Facebook profile.

Remember though that the profile from Companies House only lists his roles on the board of directors. It doesn't show any ownership in companies where he doesn't hold an executive position hence his involvement in JVL, the consortium that bought up  Mortons Rolls assets,  isn't shown. 

It also occurs to me that buying a controlling share on Livingston could end up being a shrewd move. Previously we apparently had at least two American bidders but they were put off by the ongoing court cases. If McIlvogue can clear that then perhaps they could be interested again? In order for that to work though there would need to be a period of stability.

We've had a few, Flynn, Keane, Haughey, and McGuinness, the lottery winner that Keane persuaded to invest in Livi, They were all Celtic fans. 

[Durnford]

28 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

We've had a few, Flynn, Keane, Haughey, and McGuinness, the lottery winner that Keane persuaded to invest in Livi, They were all Celtic fans. 

True but to my limited knowledge only Flynn continued to actively support Celtic after taking on Livi. Keane really took on the Livi mantle and John McGuinness ploughed pretty much everything he had into the club.

[mozam76]

2 hours ago, Durnford said:

I know. I try to be positive but remember what it was like the last time we had a Celtic supporter as owner. At the very least he should update his Facebook profile.

 

31 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

We've had a few, Flynn, Keane, Haughey, and McGuinness, the lottery winner that Keane persuaded to invest in Livi, They were all Celtic fans. 

I couldn't give a shiny one who they support, as long as they're not up to nefarious nonsense then they're alright by me. Let's not forget two things - John Ward is (was?) a big Celtic fan, and Nixon is a Livi fan. 

[LIVIFOREVER]

 

1 hour ago, Durnford said:

True but to my limited knowledge only Flynn continued to actively support Celtic after taking on Livi. Keane really took on the Livi mantle and John McGuinness ploughed pretty much everything he had into the club.

 I think that comes under a fool and his money are easily parted, was way in over his head getting involved with Livi, ended up losing everything when we went into admin, being  guarantor for a loan.

1 hour ago, mozam76 said:

 

I couldn't give a shiny one who they support, as long as they're not up to nefarious nonsense then they're alright by me. Let's not forget two things - John Ward is (was?) a big Celtic fan, and Nixon is a Livi fan. 

Neither could i.

Edited October 5, 2023 by LIVIFOREVER

[Durnford]

58 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

 

 I think that comes under a fool and his money are easily parted, was way in over his head getting involved with Livi, ended up losing everything when we went into admin, being  guarantor for a loan.

A bit harsh TBH. Naive or gullible perhaps but he believe Keane who, according to him, encouraged him to put his name down as guarantor particularly with the stadium deals involving Gavin Masterton

[Molotov]

Does this new owner pass the whatever “fit and proper” tests exist in Scottish fitba?

If it’s the same guy as listed below I’d like to hope he’s not going to rip you off:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7946620.stm

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/12794191.fake-designer-clothes-web-trader-is-snared-after-raid/

 

[ATLIS]

2 hours ago, Molotov said:

Does this new owner pass the whatever “fit and proper” tests exist in Scottish fitba?

If it’s the same guy as listed below I’d like to hope he’s not going to rip you off:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7946620.stm

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/12794191.fake-designer-clothes-web-trader-is-snared-after-raid/

 

This is what's had a lot of people sceptical, although if you look at what Martindale was doing 15 years or so ago you'd be worried at his presence at the club. Most of it is up in the air I think until he does something to make us think he's a good guy or a w**k

[LIVIFOREVER]

4 hours ago, Molotov said:

Does this new owner pass the whatever “fit and proper” tests exist in Scottish fitba?

If it’s the same guy as listed below I’d like to hope he’s not going to rip you off:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/glasgow_and_west/7946620.stm

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/12794191.fake-designer-clothes-web-trader-is-snared-after-raid/

 

The big difference here from all the other changes in ownership, is John Ward and Dave Black are still here running the club, this guy has bought shares and brought in some much needed investment to the club, and is looking at ways to further bring money to it. Ward had taken it as far as he could himself and needed this to happen. Every other time it was a new owner, or group of owners coming in and taking over completely, then making their own appointments. So far this has all been smooth and seamless, with the every day running of the club going on as normal.

 We've been burned one too many times though, so we need actions to win over our trust, not just words alone.

Edited October 5, 2023 by LIVIFOREVER

[LIVIFOREVER]

What a difference a win makes, up to 6th place and St Johnstone drawing with Aberdeen meant we stayed up there going into the International break. 

Brightened up a sodden wet weekend.

 

[crispy]

4 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

What a difference a win makes, up to 6th place and St Johnstone drawing with Aberdeen meant we stayed up there going into the International break. 

Brightened up a sodden wet weekend.

 

Yes, it looks great. McKay was a real bright spot, too.

i think 35 points is the safety line so we’ve 25 to go over the 30 remaining games. Focussing only on that target, a win and a draw needed every 6 weeks or so - in this league it’s going to be hard to predict!

I don’t think St Johnstone are a million miles away and seemingly improving week on week. Intriguing season ahead.

[Durnford]

15 hours ago, crispy said:

Yes, it looks great. McKay was a real bright spot, too.

i think 35 points is the safety line so we’ve 25 to go over the 30 remaining games. Focussing only on that target, a win and a draw needed every 6 weeks or so - in this league it’s going to be hard to predict!

I don’t think St Johnstone are a million miles away and seemingly improving week on week. Intriguing season ahead.

TBH I suspect we'll need nearer to 40 points; unlike other years there's no real obvious contenders for the drop. For a while it looked like St Johnstone were odds on but they seem to have upped their game. Also it looks like the Rangers could be shelling out more points throughout the season  Even Celtic have not exactly been infallible and could end up dropping more points in pretty much any post-Lennon period.

I suspect this year is likely to be a lot closer than previous seasons.

 

[Troy.1995]

International breaks can do one as far as I'm concerned. Yeh,Scotland blah,blah.Theyl get there,eventually .But a normal Saturday disrupted,shite imo.Big teams ie I get,but down the table,gash.And I'm not the only one.Sorry,just missing my fix,metaphoricly speaking of course..

[Dav nan Gael]

16 hours ago, Troy.1995 said:

International breaks can do one as far as I'm concerned. Yeh,Scotland blah,blah.Theyl get there,eventually .But a normal Saturday disrupted,shite imo.Big teams ie I get,but down the table,gash.And I'm not the only one.Sorry,just missing my fix,metaphoricly speaking of course..

Plenty of footy all over WL yesterday Troy,a few Livi fans were at Blackburn v Whitburn yesterday. 

Saw Dave Black there........

[Troy.1995]

Used to go watch Livi utd play when we weren't.Yeh,good to see fans attending these games.Might just start going again,if the wife will let me.Cheers..