Livingston - all the threads merged

[LIVIFOREVER]

4 hours ago, Sortmeout said:

From the outside looking in it seems like something is slightly off with Livi just now.

 

Don't usually play well after a break, but this result mirrors our pish poor away form from last season, coincidently when Obileye was out injured too. We had looked fairly solid this season with a back 3, with Obileye in the centre, don't think it's a coincidence him missing today saw us conceding goals like we did. He'd prone to brain fart moments with the ball at his feet, but superb in the air for defending balls into our box.

Hopefully just a blip and normal service will resume in our home form against Dundee next weekend. 

[LIVIFOREVER]

17 minutes ago, mozam76 said:

I can think of three things off the top of my head that have adversely affected us financially. First of all, and it’s the one I’m probably most unsure of, is that it appears to me that there has been a noticeable drop in the number of local businesses who sponsor us. I may be way off with that, but it’s how I see it. 

The other two, I’m absolutely sure of, and they’re blindingly obvious to all. We’re living in the biggest cost of living crisis this club will have ever seen, and certainly living with highest utility costs the club will have ever seen. We also have the financial burden of VAR. Those are two things, straight off the bat, that did not exist when we were promoted and have financially crippled us. 

A season and a half with no gate money wont have helped either, with the Dykes money being blown keeping us afloat, sure we had money in the bank up to covid fucking everything up. Back to back top six finishes during that time, with a cup final thrown in, was wasted with no fans attending games, lost revenue playing an erse cheek in an extra game those seasons as well.  

[LIVIFOREVER]

3 hours ago, LiviLion said:

I think it's the biggest problem with Martindale's style of football, when things go badly like today then there's a lot more to complain about. If we grind out wins or hard-fought draws then it's a bit easier to watch. 

Only game we've looked like scoring for fun was Easter Rd, immediately scored when Hibs got a goal back, much like Killie did to us today. In the main we've managed to get results keeping it tight at the back, but if we concede goals like we did today we just don't have the fire power to get back in the game, we're set up to grind out wins and draws.

[ATLIS]

A lot been said about the game, but one thing of note is Martindale playing Sangare and De Lucas immediately after returning from international breaks in Africa and the Dominican Republic. It's a lot of travelling to then just be thrown back in. 

There's a noticeable drop off in quality in the squad from last season, which comes from the budget being cut. It says a lot that I'd take a fat unfit JET over Guthrie

[Livi]

9 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

A season and a half with no gate money wont have helped either, with the Dykes money being blown keeping us afloat, sure we had money in the bank up to covid fucking everything up. Back to back top six finishes during that time, with a cup final thrown in, was wasted with no fans attending games, lost revenue playing an erse cheek in an extra game those seasons as well.  

I agree it wont have helped. The club took a long term loan from Scottish Government to help through that period.

[Freedom Farter]

13 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Only game we've looked like scoring for fun was Easter Rd, immediately scored when Hibs got a goal back, much like Killie did to us today. In the main we've managed to get results keeping it tight at the back, but if we concede goals like we did today we just don't have the fire power to get back in the game, we're set up to grind out wins and draws.

How we play is also influenced by how the opposition play. Against Hibs, we could hit those three goals and create all those chance partly because they were playing a high line. Second half especially we kept getting in behind, if you think Nouble's chance he missed and Sangare's goal. Also Boyle wasn't defending at all on their right so we always had 2 on 1, Nouble and Penrice, against Harbottle. That gave Penrice all the time he needed for his great crosses in that match.

Killie are very different. They're always set up really well defensively so even on a good day its not easy to create much at Rugby Park. Still it was our defending yesterday that was the primary problem. We're the first team to concede 3 to Killie in the league this season. Devlin had a poor game and De Lucas a mixed performance but our midfield was off it defensively too. That was Holt's worst performance this season. He wasn't snapping into his tackles like usual. 

Of course, there were attacking issues yesterday too. Nouble had an awful game. Mackay looked tired. Pittman and Penrice showed a bit of drive but that was it. Just really flat from the whole team, need a backlash next week.

[LIVIFOREVER]

5 hours ago, Freedom Farter said:

How we play is also influenced by how the opposition play. Against Hibs, we could hit those three goals and create all those chance partly because they were playing a high line. Second half especially we kept getting in behind, if you think Nouble's chance he missed and Sangare's goal. Also Boyle wasn't defending at all on their right so we always had 2 on 1, Nouble and Penrice, against Harbottle. That gave Penrice all the time he needed for his great crosses in that match.

Killie are very different. They're always set up really well defensively so even on a good day its not easy to create much at Rugby Park. Still it was our defending yesterday that was the primary problem. We're the first team to concede 3 to Killie in the league this season. Devlin had a poor game and De Lucas a mixed performance but our midfield was off it defensively too. That was Holt's worst performance this season. He wasn't snapping into his tackles like usual. 

Of course, there were attacking issues yesterday too. Nouble had an awful game. Mackay looked tired. Pittman and Penrice showed a bit of drive but that was it. Just really flat from the whole team, need a backlash next week.

Dunno what it is about International breaks but we always seem to take a game or two to get back our sharpness. We played a couple of bounce games too, but doesn't seem to make any difference.

[Menga Bus]

Would say 8-9 players looked well off the pace yesterday, thought penrice amongst the chaos of the rest of the back line did well first half with Armstrong atleast. Put a lot of blame on George at the time but having seen the goals back I don’t actually think there’s much he can do. He needs to start coming to claim crosses and having more of a presence back there could only help our defending, needs to improve in this aspect. And I can’t really find it in me to blame Anderson for anything, ball hoofed up to him against 3 CBs for 80 minutes. The one real bit of service where we needed him happened to be right after we took him off and the ball got rolled across the face of goal, of course with no real goal threat on the park nobody else was there. Pretty absurd sub taking him off, thought majority of the substitutions were wrong yesterday. 

[LIVIFOREVER]

Can never understand taking Anderson off, unless it's to save him for the next game when he's played a lot, Guthrie isn't a like for like replacement, nowhere near, but would actually help Anderson as a target man who can lay the ball off to him. For me Anderson is a bit like Larsson was for Celtic back in the day, could pop up at anytime and score a goal, even when having a quiet game. Yet we keep taking him off.

Totally agree with ATLIS on JET, he'd be a far better option for us than Guthrie, he's a big lump of a guy, but nimble on his feet, and a great finisher, could you imagine a front 3 of JET-Anderson-Nouble, when all three are on fire, OOFT, has me all of a quiver thinking about it.

[ATLIS]

3 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Could you imagine a front 3 of JET-Anderson-Nouble, when all three are on fire, OOFT, has me all of a quiver thinking about it.

Absolutely, it'd be incredible. However in reality it'd end up with Anderson leaving for free next season, Nouble being half arsed and leaving for free and a fat unfit JET 2-3 years older and slower

[LIVIFOREVER]

Just now, ATLIS said:

Absolutely, it'd be incredible. However in reality it'd end up with Anderson leaving for free next season, Nouble being half arsed and leaving for free and a fat unfit JET 2-3 years older and slower

Let me dream ATLIS, don't spoil it.

[Durnford]

21 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Let me dream ATLIS, don't spoil it.

Personally I'd prefer a front line of Lyndon Dykes; Davide Fernandez and Ryan Hardie

[LIVIFOREVER]

23 minutes ago, Durnford said:

Personally I'd prefer a front line of Lyndon Dykes; Davide Fernandez and Ryan Hardie

If we're taking players from the past and present, then i'd go for  Pele-Messi-Maradona as our front 3.

I'd have David Bingham over Hardie in your selection.

Edited October 23, 2023 by LIVIFOREVER

[Durnford]

8 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

If we're taking players from the past and present, then i'd go for  Pele-Messi-Maradona as our front 3.

I'd have David Bingham over Hardie in your selection.

I thought about Bingo but would be too similar inn position to Dykes. Also considered Barry Wilson at his best.

[LIVIFOREVER]

1 minute ago, Durnford said:

I thought about Bingo but would be too similar inn position to Dykes. Also considered Barry Wilson at his best.

Would be interesting seeing how good Anderson would be with Dykes and Fernandez playing beside him, he's prob the best natural finisher we've had but doesn't get the service he needs to score the amount of goals he's capable of, with Dykes as a target man and Fernandez playing on the wing, he'd be banging them in.

[ATLIS]

1 minute ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Would be interesting seeing how good Anderson would be with Dykes and Fernandez playing beside him, he's prob the best natural finisher we've had but doesn't get the service he needs to score the amount of goals he's capable of, with Dykes as a target man and Fernandez playing on the wing, he'd be banging them in.

Look at what Dykes did for Dobbie at QotS. Safe to say he'd have Bruce at 15+ goals easily

[Stan Bo]

What's happened with Stephen Kelly for you guys this year? Is it down to him not fitting into a change of shape or just out of form? Always a player I really liked but hasn't played too often this season! 

[ATLIS]

46 minutes ago, Stan Bo said:

What's happened with Stephen Kelly for you guys this year? Is it down to him not fitting into a change of shape or just out of form? Always a player I really liked but hasn't played too often this season! 

He must've shagged Martindale's missus. It's the only explanation 

[Scrutinizer]

2 hours ago, Stan Bo said:

What's happened with Stephen Kelly for you guys this year? Is it down to him not fitting into a change of shape or just out of form? Always a player I really liked but hasn't played too often this season! 

He  hide's ,can't get himself into games,too hesitant on the ball, weak mentality, needs to come out of his shell ,there is  a player there but will we ever see it very unlikely, Martindale hasn't got a clue where to play him , I would play him behind the strikers,and tell him don't come back into your half....

[Freedom Farter]

I'll be reiterating a bit of what I put in the match thread with this ramble but anyway:

These last two defeats have been "6 pointers" in that they've both times allowed the opponent to leapfrog us in the league. Those type of defeats are felt especially acutely. We'd actually had a couple of 6 pointers already this season, away to County and away to St Johnstone. We played shite in both yet defensive solidity and nicking a goal got us excellent draws both times. The difference these last two weeks has been the previous defensive solidity no longer being there, away to Killie last week and yesterday after going down to 10 men. 

The biggest reason is obvious and especially when you look at the nature of the goals conceded, its Obileye's absence. Nottingham is the only centre back who might share something of Obileye's presence but he's been injured himself since August. So there's a degree of bad luck there, your commanding centre back and his most likely replacement both being injured.

I think too, though, Martindale's gone a wee bit too adventurous in his player selections the last couple of weeks. I can see why, we've got exciting young attacking players like Bradley and Mackay and I'm as desperate as anyone to see them on the pitch more. The thing is, though, building a really strong base and getting full familiarity with what is still a new formation this season should come first. So for me, you can't go leaving out ball winners like Pittman and probably Brandon just now while you're still trying to forge that resilient character to the team. Pick your battlers while seas are stormy, bring in the flair once the waters are calmer. Or something.

Also, Stephen Kelly has to feature more, especially in home matches.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Freedom Farter