Livingston - all the threads merged

[wearealldoomed]

You know exactly what I mean. They made themselves look like c***s by letting it happen in a roundabout way. Doesn't matter how it's dressed up.

Aye, you're right. The whole liquidation jape was a right good laugh.

The loss of 114 years of history, our ground and league place was all part of the plan. The varios Airdrieonians puppet boards of the time were visionaries.

[Guest Lion_Rampant]

It's clear from many posts that therte is no love lost between certain posters and Livingston. Of course it's really the former chairmen and their cronies that have caused this ill felling. It's not the majority of Livi fans who have had to suffer the wholescale humiliation over the last few years that you hate, at least I hope not.

I can't really blame you for your dislike (hatred is too strong a word) but I ask that you remember that a lot of the people who have worked very hard to turn this sorry mess around don't deserve any of the abuse that has been banded about. These are people who, devoted to their club, have sought ways to bring about change. It was clear that everything Massone did was wrong, not least failing to pay staff and creditors. These hard working fans have done what any fan in a similair position would have done, protested, held back ticket purchases or actively planned for change. These are all just football fans, just like you.

I ask you in all honesty, what would you have done in their place? The very same.

I can't condone any the horrendous practices that Livi have participated in and never will but just screaming for the demise of the club isn't going to make everything better. It serves no purpose to make extinct senior football in West Lothian. There needs to be local alternatives in this area to the likes of the Old Firm and Hearts and Hibs. It will take years (20/30+) before Livingston can begin to really make an impression on this front. But it can and will happen and it is important for the benefit of the town and for Scottish football in general that Livingsyon FC continues in some form.

Of course lessons must be learnt and I concur with the majority that something like this must never happen again. We will argue for years as to how this might come to bear. An interesting point that I see hasn't yet been mentioned (?) is that the SFL will require a bond from LFC for the upcoming season. Should Livi fail, this bond would be payable to all the Div 1 clubs so that they wouldn't suffer financially. This makes good sense and does indeed show that the SFL can do something correctly.

At the meeting tonight it was clear through the relief that there is a steely intention to make good all the wrongs of previous regimes. It is of course a given that not all creditors will receive what they are due. For many local businesses the harsh reality is that although this is very bad, the removal of senior football from the locale could potentially be even worse. LFC through the games it hosts and the conferences and events that are held at the stadium, contribute quite significantly to the West Lothian area. In these economic times West Lothian does not want to miss this income. Jed Nixon made it abundantly clear that LFC would not spend more than it can generate be it in Division 1 or 3.

Time will tell if we are still here by the end of 09/10 or indeed if promises uttered today will be kept. However the club will move forward, with Trust memebers on the Board of Directors and a determination to finally, do the right thing.

For those out there that are queuing up to drop bombs on us please remember that by us just simply vanishing, nothing is solved. If we can come through this and perform as a socially responsible senior football club, all your criticism and scorn will have been worthwhile. Don't let us burn and die, help us to become the kind of club you want us to be and perhaps, Scottish football can become just a little bit better.

Excellent post.

[TheDoctor]

It's clear from many posts that therte is no love lost between certain posters and Livingston. Of course it's really the former chairmen and their cronies that have caused this ill felling. It's not the majority of Livi fans who have had to suffer the wholescale humiliation over the last few years that you hate, at least I hope not.

I can't really blame you for your dislike (hatred is too strong a word) but I ask that you remember that a lot of the people who have worked very hard to turn this sorry mess around don't deserve any of the abuse that has been banded about. These are people who, devoted to their club, have sought ways to bring about change. It was clear that everything Massone did was wrong, not least failing to pay staff and creditors. These hard working fans have done what any fan in a similair position would have done, protested, held back ticket purchases or actively planned for change. These are all just football fans, just like you.

I ask you in all honesty, what would you have done in their place? The very same.

I can't condone any the horrendous practices that Livi have participated in and never will but just screaming for the demise of the club isn't going to make everything better. It serves no purpose to make extinct senior football in West Lothian. There needs to be local alternatives in this area to the likes of the Old Firm and Hearts and Hibs. It will take years (20/30+) before Livingston can begin to really make an impression on this front. But it can and will happen and it is important for the benefit of the town and for Scottish football in general that Livingsyon FC continues in some form.

Of course lessons must be learnt and I concur with the majority that something like this must never happen again. We will argue for years as to how this might come to bear. An interesting point that I see hasn't yet been mentioned (?) is that the SFL will require a bond from LFC for the upcoming season. Should Livi fail, this bond would be payable to all the Div 1 clubs so that they wouldn't suffer financially. This makes good sense and does indeed show that the SFL can do something correctly.

At the meeting tonight it was clear through the relief that there is a steely intention to make good all the wrongs of previous regimes. It is of course a given that not all creditors will receive what they are due. For many local businesses the harsh reality is that although this is very bad, the removal of senior football from the locale could potentially be even worse. LFC through the games it hosts and the conferences and events that are held at the stadium, contribute quite significantly to the West Lothian area. In these economic times West Lothian does not want to miss this income. Jed Nixon made it abundantly clear that LFC would not spend more than it can generate be it in Division 1 or 3.

Time will tell if we are still here by the end of 09/10 or indeed if promises uttered today will be kept. However the club will move forward, with Trust memebers on the Board of Directors and a determination to finally, do the right thing.

For those out there that are queuing up to drop bombs on us please remember that by us just simply vanishing, nothing is solved. If we can come through this and perform as a socially responsible senior football club, all your criticism and scorn will have been worthwhile. Don't let us burn and die, help us to become the kind of club you want us to be and perhaps, Scottish football can become just a little bit better.

Great post, but there is one still glaringly obvious fact still remains. For all you talk about fixing the mistakes and living within your means, Angelo Massone is still the majority shareholder and is sitting in his hotel suite at the Sheraton with the biggest glass of brandy and a huge cigar with a massive grin on his coupon, because he can get more money for shares he shouldn't have.

What are the plans to right that wrong?

[southview]

Alright neebur? that post by Southview was brilliant. Looking forward to seeing just how close it was.

OK, this thread looks like being near dead, see you same time, same place next close season on the Clyde or Stirling albion threads?

Cheers

Nah, we won't have to wait that long. All of us can move to the SPL forum and make Hearts the new Livingston thread now that they are in bother!

[southview]

It's clear from many posts that therte is no love lost between certain posters and Livingston. Of course it's really the former chairmen and their cronies that have caused this ill felling. It's not the majority of Livi fans who have had to suffer the wholescale humiliation over the last few years that you hate, at least I hope not.

I can't really blame you for your dislike (hatred is too strong a word) but I ask that you remember that a lot of the people who have worked very hard to turn this sorry mess around don't deserve any of the abuse that has been banded about. These are people who, devoted to their club, have sought ways to bring about change. It was clear that everything Massone did was wrong, not least failing to pay staff and creditors. These hard working fans have done what any fan in a similair position would have done, protested, held back ticket purchases or actively planned for change. These are all just football fans, just like you.

I ask you in all honesty, what would you have done in their place? The very same.

I can't condone any the horrendous practices that Livi have participated in and never will but just screaming for the demise of the club isn't going to make everything better. It serves no purpose to make extinct senior football in West Lothian. There needs to be local alternatives in this area to the likes of the Old Firm and Hearts and Hibs. It will take years (20/30+) before Livingston can begin to really make an impression on this front. But it can and will happen and it is important for the benefit of the town and for Scottish football in general that Livingsyon FC continues in some form.

Of course lessons must be learnt and I concur with the majority that something like this must never happen again. We will argue for years as to how this might come to bear. An interesting point that I see hasn't yet been mentioned (?) is that the SFL will require a bond from LFC for the upcoming season. Should Livi fail, this bond would be payable to all the Div 1 clubs so that they wouldn't suffer financially. This makes good sense and does indeed show that the SFL can do something correctly.

At the meeting tonight it was clear through the relief that there is a steely intention to make good all the wrongs of previous regimes. It is of course a given that not all creditors will receive what they are due. For many local businesses the harsh reality is that although this is very bad, the removal of senior football from the locale could potentially be even worse. LFC through the games it hosts and the conferences and events that are held at the stadium, contribute quite significantly to the West Lothian area. In these economic times West Lothian does not want to miss this income. Jed Nixon made it abundantly clear that LFC would not spend more than it can generate be it in Division 1 or 3.

Time will tell if we are still here by the end of 09/10 or indeed if promises uttered today will be kept. However the club will move forward, with Trust memebers on the Board of Directors and a determination to finally, do the right thing.

For those out there that are queuing up to drop bombs on us please remember that by us just simply vanishing, nothing is solved. If we can come through this and perform as a socially responsible senior football club, all your criticism and scorn will have been worthwhile. Don't let us burn and die, help us to become the kind of club you want us to be and perhaps, Scottish football can become just a little bit better.

Fair play to you. Actions will speak louder than words though.

Also, even if it took years, Livi would gain a lot of respect by saying they will repay every creditor in full no matter how long it takes.

[PELE]

It's clear from many posts that therte is no love lost between certain posters and Livingston. Of course it's really the former chairmen and their cronies that have caused this ill felling. It's not the majority of Livi fans who have had to suffer the wholescale humiliation over the last few years that you hate, at least I hope not.

I can't really blame you for your dislike (hatred is too strong a word) but I ask that you remember that a lot of the people who have worked very hard to turn this sorry mess around don't deserve any of the abuse that has been banded about. These are people who, devoted to their club, have sought ways to bring about change. It was clear that everything Massone did was wrong, not least failing to pay staff and creditors. These hard working fans have done what any fan in a similair position would have done, protested, held back ticket purchases or actively planned for change. These are all just football fans, just like you.

I ask you in all honesty, what would you have done in their place? The very same.

I can't condone any the horrendous practices that Livi have participated in and never will but just screaming for the demise of the club isn't going to make everything better. It serves no purpose to make extinct senior football in West Lothian. There needs to be local alternatives in this area to the likes of the Old Firm and Hearts and Hibs. It will take years (20/30+) before Livingston can begin to really make an impression on this front. But it can and will happen and it is important for the benefit of the town and for Scottish football in general that Livingsyon FC continues in some form.

Of course lessons must be learnt and I concur with the majority that something like this must never happen again. We will argue for years as to how this might come to bear. An interesting point that I see hasn't yet been mentioned (?) is that the SFL will require a bond from LFC for the upcoming season. Should Livi fail, this bond would be payable to all the Div 1 clubs so that they wouldn't suffer financially. This makes good sense and does indeed show that the SFL can do something correctly.

At the meeting tonight it was clear through the relief that there is a steely intention to make good all the wrongs of previous regimes. It is of course a given that not all creditors will receive what they are due. For many local businesses the harsh reality is that although this is very bad, the removal of senior football from the locale could potentially be even worse. LFC through the games it hosts and the conferences and events that are held at the stadium, contribute quite significantly to the West Lothian area. In these economic times West Lothian does not want to miss this income. Jed Nixon made it abundantly clear that LFC would not spend more than it can generate be it in Division 1 or 3.

Time will tell if we are still here by the end of 09/10 or indeed if promises uttered today will be kept. However the club will move forward, with Trust memebers on the Board of Directors and a determination to finally, do the right thing.

For those out there that are queuing up to drop bombs on us please remember that by us just simply vanishing, nothing is solved. If we can come through this and perform as a socially responsible senior football club, all your criticism and scorn will have been worthwhile. Don't let us burn and die, help us to become the kind of club you want us to be and perhaps, Scottish football can become just a little bit better.

You have a good guy in McDougal. Very crafty, but good overall.

P.S. Are there trust members on the board? I don't believe McD tolerated this type of thing in the past.

[MB]

When are we likely to find out what penalty, if any, the SFL will impose on Livingston FC?

[PtB]

Aye, you're right. The whole liquidation jape was a right good laugh.

The loss of 114 years of history, our ground and league place was all part of the plan. The varios Airdrieonians puppet boards of the time were visionaries.

I was referring to the SFL and League Management Com.

[Stadio Delle Almondvale]

Great post, but there is one still glaringly obvious fact still remains. For all you talk about fixing the mistakes and living within your means, Angelo Massone is still the majority shareholder and is sitting in his hotel suite at the Sheraton with the biggest glass of brandy and a huge cigar with a massive grin on his coupon, because he can get more money for shares he shouldn't have.

What are the plans to right that wrong?

I guess that's over to you guys now. Assuming he doesn't take the money, the chairmen of your clubs can take a vote that will allow the clubs league place to be transferred meaning Massone's shares become worthless. I would suggest that at the same time some form of "fit and proper" test is also introduced. Of course there will be an element of turkeys voting for Christmas but that's where we all come in. Let your board know that you want to see bonds in place, sound business plans and fit and proper tests. Rather than having us liquidated and neatly swept under the carpet, let us prove that things can be changed for the better.

It could so easily be your club in this position. It just takes one quick sale to a potential saviour for it all to go pear shaped. Just ask Raith fans.

[PELE]

I guess that's over to you guys now. Assuming he doesn't take the money, the chairmen of your clubs can take a vote that will allow the clubs league place to be transferred meaning Massone's shares become worthless. I would suggest that at the same time some form of "fit and proper" test is also introduced. Of course there will be an element of turkeys voting for Christmas but that's where we all come in. Let your board know that you want to see bonds in place, sound business plans and fit and proper tests. Rather than having us liquidated and neatly swept under the carpet, let us prove that things can be changed for the better.

It could so easily be your club in this position. It just takes one quick sale to a potential saviour for it all to go pear shaped. Just ask Raith fans.

What happened to all the Italian players Massone was going to showcase and then sell on for a profit? Is he even Italian?

[MCL]

You're loving this aren't you?

Tell us, what would your thoughts be if you were still a creditor and were about to get utterly shafted?

Of course I'm loving it. It looked like my club was dead and buried but we have another chance now.

I had written off the amount a few times thinking I wasn't going to get anything anyway but had an inkling that I was going to have to move fast as others were starting to approach the Sheriff's Officers.

It wasn't my only source of income and I had stopped the debt getting out of hand by not adding to it. I can't believe that some businesses kept supplying even although the amounts were getting out of control.

I can imagine that creditors today won't be that happy but if I was on the new board of the club I would be reaching out to those wronged businesses and making them preferred suppliers to make up for it in a little way by giving them the business and paying in a 14 day term instead of the usual 30 days.

I can see a business opportunity for me here

Edited July 30, 2009 by MCL

[Stadio Delle Almondvale]

Fair play to you. Actions will speak louder than words though.

Also, even if it took years, Livi would gain a lot of respect by saying they will repay every creditor in full no matter how long it takes.

At the very least I would like to see creditors given the opportunity to work with the club to help generate income for them. Actions do indeed speak louder than words but I think you will be pleasantly surprised at what will be forthcoming.

You have a good guy in McDougal. Very crafty, but good overall.

P.S. Are there trust members on the board? I don't believe McD tolerated this type of thing in the past.

There will be one elected trust member on the board.

[Savage Henry]

It's clear from many posts that therte is no love lost between certain posters and Livingston. Of course it's really the former chairmen and their cronies that have caused this ill felling. It's not the majority of Livi fans who have had to suffer the wholescale humiliation over the last few years that you hate, at least I hope not.

I can't really blame you for your dislike (hatred is too strong a word) but I ask that you remember that a lot of the people who have worked very hard to turn this sorry mess around don't deserve any of the abuse that has been banded about. These are people who, devoted to their club, have sought ways to bring about change. It was clear that everything Massone did was wrong, not least failing to pay staff and creditors. These hard working fans have done what any fan in a similair position would have done, protested, held back ticket purchases or actively planned for change. These are all just football fans, just like you.

I ask you in all honesty, what would you have done in their place? The very same.

I can't condone any the horrendous practices that Livi have participated in and never will but just screaming for the demise of the club isn't going to make everything better. It serves no purpose to make extinct senior football in West Lothian. There needs to be local alternatives in this area to the likes of the Old Firm and Hearts and Hibs. It will take years (20/30+) before Livingston can begin to really make an impression on this front. But it can and will happen and it is important for the benefit of the town and for Scottish football in general that Livingsyon FC continues in some form.

Of course lessons must be learnt and I concur with the majority that something like this must never happen again. We will argue for years as to how this might come to bear. An interesting point that I see hasn't yet been mentioned (?) is that the SFL will require a bond from LFC for the upcoming season. Should Livi fail, this bond would be payable to all the Div 1 clubs so that they wouldn't suffer financially. This makes good sense and does indeed show that the SFL can do something correctly.

At the meeting tonight it was clear through the relief that there is a steely intention to make good all the wrongs of previous regimes. It is of course a given that not all creditors will receive what they are due. For many local businesses the harsh reality is that although this is very bad, the removal of senior football from the locale could potentially be even worse. LFC through the games it hosts and the conferences and events that are held at the stadium, contribute quite significantly to the West Lothian area. In these economic times West Lothian does not want to miss this income. Jed Nixon made it abundantly clear that LFC would not spend more than it can generate be it in Division 1 or 3.

Time will tell if we are still here by the end of 09/10 or indeed if promises uttered today will be kept. However the club will move forward, with Trust memebers on the Board of Directors and a determination to finally, do the right thing.

For those out there that are queuing up to drop bombs on us please remember that by us just simply vanishing, nothing is solved. If we can come through this and perform as a socially responsible senior football club, all your criticism and scorn will have been worthwhile. Don't let us burn and die, help us to become the kind of club you want us to be and perhaps, Scottish football can become just a little bit better.

A very heartfelt and eloquent post.

[Gnash]

And why should two guys with no official capacity in football be allowed to start a new team with automatic entry into the SFL? When Livi dies it dies. There are other clubs who want entry with better experience and credentials and maybe even a touch of honesty and morality.

Because they are essentially saving the club. As much as the owners of the club over the past few years don't deserve the survival of the club (they wouldn't care anyway), there is a much greater number of people who have had no control over the mis-management of the club, but who don't deserve to have their club put out of business.

As for honestly and morality - that is whole point behind the change in ownership.

They are safe until the end of the season. Those two investors will help fund the club and the interim manager will run it. Massone will have no say for the next year and will probably end up selling his shares.

They've given the SFL assurances that they will fund the club there really is no going back now. They'll survive for at least another year.

So effectively Massone's deadline has been extended for a year? Because if not, when next deadline comes and goes, the club could be liquidated.

[Stadio Delle Almondvale]

What happened to all the Italian players Massone was going to showcase and then sell on for a profit? Is he even Italian?

What happened to many of the things he said?

We need to forget about him and move the club on. The hard work is only just beginning. It is a new start for Livi and we have one chance to get it right in your eyes. A lot of people will be working very hard to achieve this and have no doubts that we start from a very poor position indeed.

[bleubrazil]

McDougall kept Cowden afloat for nearly 20 years so he knows his football. How he managed to pull this off we can only guess but it is still a long way from being finished. Good luck to him and all Livi's genuine fans.

[Guest Galeazzo_Ciano]

I hope Angelo Massone fights tooth and nail for his stake in his club. The blatant disregard shown to him, the outspoken bile directed, by the SFL press conference and the Livingston fans should be met head on.

Forza Angelo!

Forza Massone!

Forza! Forza!

A l'ultimo!!!!!!!!

[Monster]

A very heartfelt and eloquent post.

Pie in the sky.

The only way forward for genuine fans was to shut the doors on 14 years of shame, getting rid of scum like MCL, and go and start a club to represent their own community with it's own constitition and protection against Massone/Flynn/Keane type scam artists.

What they now have is a realisation that they can effectively rinse and repeat, and should the hard work of genuine people not quite cut it there will be those will gradually pull towards the tried and tested debt path again.

Sadly, there are always people who think cheating to win is a model of success.

[The Arch]

That petition must have done the job then.

[General]

So effectively Massone's deadline has been extended for a year? Because if not, when next deadline comes and goes, the club could be liquidated.

Pretty much, he still has the shares but at the moment he has no power as the interim manager will control the club for the next year alongside the two investors. I'm sure he'll sell the shares within the next year if not sooner and if he doesn't, it could be the end unless the clubs vote to change rule 21.7 which I hope they don't, it would ruin Scottish football... it's already bad enough.

As long as they stick to what they told the SFL today, Livingston will be here for at least another year.