The New Raith Rovers Thread

[Whistle Blower]

We have ambition?The club/some individuals did not want to go up last season

Many board members didn't want to go up in 92/3, but we did.

[Scottydog]

A word to the wise for anyone who IS actually foolish enough to think we should be doing a Dundee, Pars, Falkirk etc and bringing in players on long contracts at exorbitant rates.

This summer we came within an ace of agreeing a move to Central Park (talks were held with CFC) due to the stubbornness of Mr Sim. The result of all stubbornness and talks is that as we all know we have a longer lease but at a cost.

If there's anyone out there of the mind who would like to see the changes implemented to bring in the class of players above mentioned then contact Mr Sim and agree a release price for the stadium (approximately £450k will suffice).

Alternately pop along to your local friendly chairman and offer him either the price of the wages required or just offer to pay the rent either way you'll be £6k+ out of pocket a month.

Option 2, Get real.

[liam_barnett]

Tickets for Friday's match on sale from 9am-4pm from Monday onwards if anyone still needs one.

[Big Berk]

I would tend to agree with the board's strategy if it meant we were paying off some debt/saving some cash to buy back the ground at some point in the future.

Your comparison with Ross County and Burntisland is a joke because a) they have the whole of the north of Scotland as their catchment area not just Dingwall (and people do come from miles away) and b) how many millionaires are on Ross County's board?

The joke's on you actually.

'The whole of the north of Scotland' - you mean everything north of Tore, which doesnt leave much of the north of Scotland. Dingwall is by far the biggest town at 5500. The whole of the Black Isle has 4000 folk, and Strathpeffer 1,500. Muir of Ord and Conon Bridge combined is 5600 (which are actually nearer Inverness). There are two main roads north from Dingwall; the towns on one, as far as Bonar bridge 30 miles away (and including Dornoch) have a combined population of around 12,000: those on the other road as far as Lochinver 60 miles away have a combined population of around 4,000. Adding all that to Dingwall's 5,500 and you get a catchment of less than 30,000 folk spread out over a wide area. That is much less than the population of Glenrothes less than 10 miles from Stark's Park; Kirkcaldy has 48,000, and I wont go into the populations of Kirkcaldy's satelite towns.

"Ross County have several millionaires on their board". I dont get what that has to do with Burntisland but whatever, what household names are on their team sheet? Rangers have several multimionaires on their board and they're skint.

Maybe the real reason RC have a better support and outside finance is because theyre a success story on the pitch?

PS, heres some a) and b) reasoning of my own:

a) success breeds success and promotes interest, whereas shoestring budgets lead to famine, or rather people tend not to visit skinflints;

b) learn some geography and demographics of your own first before ridiculing others'.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Big Berk

[McGuigan1978]

Speaking from experience, the people of Glenrothes seem utterly uninterested in the fortunes of Raith Rovers, and they have tried engaging them recently.

I totally agree that when it comes to ambition, we should absolutely be aspiring to the likes of Hamilton, Ross County, and even Inverness, who get fairly meagre crowds.

I suppose the flip side of this, is how you balance ambition, with prudence. Just look at the teams that are in our league, or tellingly below us this season.

Hearts, Rangers and Livingston have all either been liquidated, been in administration or are likely to do so again. Morton have lost a fortune over the last few years, Dunfermline have been in admin, albeit they had, by their standards at least, a good team to watch as they plunged 10 million in debt.

Queen of the South lost a fortune during their "boom" time, and if I'm a betting man, Hamilton would be struggling without a sell-on clause or two in their transfer dealings.

I'm not on the board, and I'm guessing no-one else is on here either, but I can only imagine that it's an utterly thankless, and stressful task.

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I sincerely doubt that anyone on the board is making a fortune out of running Raith Rovers, and bearing in mind what we've went through over the last 20 years, I'm quite glad that I've still got a club to support.

Do I think everything's great? Of course not, I want us to be winning every week like we did in the mid -90's, but go and look at the old Fife Free Press' of that time, we were losing a fortune.

We got by by selling players, something that isn't possible now because of the Bosman scenario.

I think we're on an even keel now in terms of our finances, and by all intents and purposes, I think we may be debt free, a fact that should probably be celebrated.

The problem is that fans will never start cheering a balance sheet, so how does the club attract more of us?

BETTER PLAYERS!

CHEAPER ENTRANCE FEE!

WIN GAMES!

EXCITING FOOTBALL!

It's a chicken and egg scenario though isn't it? The players are guff, so supporters stop going, so the players get worse, and the spiral continues.

In terms of the crowds, when my Grandad started taking me we were only getting a few hundred in the mid-80's, so our current average really depends on when you compare it too. I think it's safe to say that our current support is uninspired though.

I can only hope that we improve incrementally. I'd like us to be

miles clear of relegation this season, which in a far tougher league, would be progress.

I don't actually see the "Big Three" thing as exciting, I see it as something which has stunted our ability to challenge. I hope we make a profit this year, as our ability to get promoted is essentialy zero. The best we can do is hang about, which is hardly exciting.

Anyway, like I say, none of us has any answers, I just don't think things are quite as bleak as they're occasionally painted.

Edited September 6, 2014 by McGuigan1978

[Big Berk]

By that token youve got to say that the people of Wester Ross and Sutherland have little interest in football, let alone travel 30 or 40 miles to watch it. However, I agree with most of your sentiments. Yes of course its a balancing act. What concerns me and others is that we're actually underachieving on the pitch in terms of footballing ability, tactics and coaching, which if they were of an acceptable standard for a club of our size and means would result in a lot more interest from the fringe support and hence bigger crowds and more income. But lack of organisation on the pitch and cynical publicity stunts/false promises by the board during the summer to coincide with season ticket sales are bound to have the opposite effect. Its effectively a business treating its customers with contempt.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Big Berk

[Scary Bear]

A word to the wise for anyone who IS actually foolish enough to think we should be doing a Dundee, Pars, Falkirk etc and bringing in players on long contracts at exorbitant rates.

This summer we came within an ace of agreeing a move to Central Park (talks were held with CFC) due to the stubbornness of Mr Sim. The result of all stubbornness and talks is that as we all know we have a longer lease but at a cost.

If there's anyone out there of the mind who would like to see the changes implemented to bring in the class of players above mentioned then contact Mr Sim and agree a release price for the stadium (approximately £450k will suffice).

Alternately pop along to your local friendly chairman and offer him either the price of the wages required or just offer to pay the rent either way you'll be £6k+ out of pocket a month.

Option 2, Get real.

Rovers are pretty rubbish, but Rovers at fucking Cowdenbeath is just taking the piss.

[McGuigan1978]

I agree with you there, but while we have almost certainly underperformed, I don't think we've woefully done so.

By that I mean we haven't been relegated, or ended up in the play-offs. Looking at the league last year, Dundee and Falkirk would be expected to be ahead of us, Queen of the South arguably had a better squad than us, and Hamilton and Dumbarton overachieved, and Livingston had in John Mcglynn, a man who appears able to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

To be behind that is disappointing, but not something I'd want to start a protest about. Add in a cup win against Rangers, and I can honestly say I wouldn't, (rather than couldn't), grumble about last season.

At some point however, I'd like to think that we'd be that overperforming club eventually. That's more a hope that an expectation though.

Edited September 6, 2014 by McGuigan1978

[Big Berk]

While club has some stability the team is gong thru a long dark night. I think the wins against the Sons Alloa and Cowden, welcome as they are are only oil on troubled waters. The real ability of the team is exposed all too easily by teams with a bit of fitness and sharpness. There is no excuse. Under McGlynn we weren't much of a footballing side but he achieved a lot thru fitness and organisation. Now not only isnt there much football in us we're also looking unfit and disorganised.

[McGuigan1978]

Again, I agree with that. But I don't think Grant Murray is entirely to blame for it.

I watched a lot of poor games under John Mcglynn, but at the time the thoughts seemed to be that we were trying to establish ourselves.

What really happened, was that we played football in an aesthetically unappealing manner, then followed it up with Grant, who probably has tried to play better football, albeit not successfully.

This means we've now played football in a reasonably unattractive manner for about ten years, not all of which has been this manager, or this Board's fault.

Again, that's just an aside, but our dwindling crowd can't all laid, in my opinion at least, at the current managers door.

[Big Berk]

My honest opinion, having watched Bert's tactics, the lack of correction of basic faults, and his post match interviews is that he's out of his depth.

[Michael W]

Challenging for a top half finish or even achieving one would make for a satisfactory league campaign. We know we're not going to challenge for promotion this season but a sign some progress has been made would be most welcome.

People are sick of our current scrape by with a relegation scare included. If we could also not only manage to win 3 games in 20 matches that would be just grand too.

Edited September 6, 2014 by Michael W

[McGuigan1978]

I think we read too much into Murray's interviews.

I think he has it in his head that he shouldn't criticise his players. I also think he's uncomfortable in front of the camera, which leads to uncomfortable answers.

Remember, if he's asked the same question by the Saturday papers, the midweek papers, the local media and the website, their is only so many answers he can give. I agree it would be good if he became more "media savvy" but really that's all a bit of an irrelevance.

First and foremost, we just need to win games.

[Mij]

Many board members didn't want to go up in 92/3, but we did.

And?

A word to the wise for anyone who IS actually foolish enough to think we should be doing a Dundee, Pars, Falkirk etc and bringing in players on long contracts at exorbitant rates.

This summer we came within an ace of agreeing a move to Central Park (talks were held with CFC) due to the stubbornness of Mr Sim. The result of all stubbornness and talks is that as we all know we have a longer lease but at a cost.

If there's anyone out there of the mind who would like to see the changes implemented to bring in the class of players above mentioned then contact Mr Sim and agree a release price for the stadium (approximately £450k will suffice).

Alternately pop along to your local friendly chairman and offer him either the price of the wages required or just offer to pay the rent either way you'll be £6k+ out of pocket a month.

Option 2, Get real.

Away man,Sim wouldn't give the stadium away for £450k.

We ain't being paying anything near the £6k rent for years

[Mij]

Speaking from experience, the people of Glenrothes seem utterly uninterested in the fortunes of Raith Rovers, and they have tried engaging them recently.

I totally agree that when it comes to ambition, we should absolutely be aspiring to the likes of Hamilton, Ross County, and even Inverness, who get fairly meagre crowds.

I suppose the flip side of this, is how you balance ambition, with prudence. Just look at the teams that are in our league, or tellingly below us this season.

Hearts, Rangers and Livingston have all either been liquidated, been in administration or are likely to do so again. Morton have lost a fortune over the last few years, Dunfermline have been in admin, albeit they had, by their standards at least, a good team to watch as they plunged 10 million in debt.

Queen of the South lost a fortune during their "boom" time, and if I'm a betting man, Hamilton would be struggling without a sell-on clause or two in their transfer dealings.

I'm not on the board, and I'm guessing no-one else is on here either, but I can only imagine that it's an utterly thankless, and stressful task.

Perhaps I'm being naive, but I sincerely doubt that anyone on the board is making a fortune out of running Raith Rovers, and bearing in mind what we've went through over the last 20 years, I'm quite glad that I've still got a club to support.

Do I think everything's great? Of course not, I want us to be winning every week like we did in the mid -90's, but go and look at the old Fife Free Press' of that time, we were losing a fortune.

We got by by selling players, something that isn't possible now because of the Bosman scenario.

I think we're on an even keel now in terms of our finances, and by all intents and purposes, I think we may be debt free, a fact that should probably be celebrated.

The problem is that fans will never start cheering a balance sheet, so how does the club attract more of us?

BETTER PLAYERS!

CHEAPER ENTRANCE FEE!

WIN GAMES!

EXCITING FOOTBALL!

It's a chicken and egg scenario though isn't it? The players are guff, so supporters stop going, so the players get worse, and the spiral continues.

In terms of the crowds, when my Grandad started taking me we were only getting a few hundred in the mid-80's, so our current average really depends on when you compare it too. I think it's safe to say that our current support is uninspired though.

I can only hope that we improve incrementally. I'd like us to be

miles clear of relegation this season, which in a far tougher league, would be progress.

I don't actually see the "Big Three" thing as exciting, I see it as something which has stunted our ability to challenge. I hope we make a profit this year, as our ability to get promoted is essentialy zero. The best we can do is hang about, which is hardly exciting.

Anyway, like I say, none of us has any answers, I just don't think things are quite as bleak as they're occasionally painted.

The joke's on you actually.

'The whole of the north of Scotland' - you mean everything north of Tore, which doesnt leave much of the north of Scotland. Dingwall is by far the biggest town at 5500. The whole of the Black Isle has 4000 folk, and Strathpeffer 1,500. Muir of Ord and Conon Bridge combined is 5600 (which are actually nearer Inverness). There are two main roads north from Dingwall; the towns on one, as far as Bonar bridge 30 miles away (and including Dornoch) have a combined population of around 12,000: those on the other road as far as Lochinver 60 miles away have a combined population of around 4,000. Adding all that to Dingwall's 5,500 and you get a catchment of less than 30,000 folk spread out over a wide area. That is much less than the population of Glenrothes less than 10 miles from Stark's Park; Kirkcaldy has 48,000, and I wont go into the populations of Kirkcaldy's satelite towns.

"Ross County have several millionaires on their board". I dont get what that has to do with Burntisland but whatever, what household names are on their team sheet? Rangers have several multimionaires on their board and they're skint.

Maybe the real reason RC have a better support and outside finance is because theyre a success story on the pitch?

PS, heres some a) and b) reasoning of my own:

a) success breeds success and promotes interest, whereas shoestring budgets lead to famine, or rather people tend not to visit skinflints;

b) learn some geography and demographics of your own first before ridiculing others'.

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

And?

Away man,Sim wouldn't give the stadium away for £450k.

We ain't being paying anything near the £6k rent for years

This is the sum that is left to pay after repayments over the years, if someone had the money he would hand over the deeds.

In respect of rent, this has varied and has been renegotiated.

[Hank Scorpio]

As a side note, i'd be willing to bet that "Mij" is the same person as "rovers_lad" and Vinnie on FanTalk. Posting style is far too similar.

[Beachbum]

'The whole of the north of Scotland' - you mean everything north of Tore, which doesnt leave much of the north of Scotland. Dingwall is by far the biggest town at 5500. The whole of the Black Isle has 4000 folk, and Strathpeffer 1,500. Muir of Ord and Conon Bridge combined is 5600 (which are actually nearer Inverness). There are two main roads north from Dingwall; the towns on one, as far as Bonar bridge 30 miles away (and including Dornoch) have a combined population of around 12,000: those on the other road as far as Lochinver 60 miles away have a combined population of around 4,000. Adding all that to Dingwall's 5,500 and you get a catchment of less than 30,000 folk spread out over a wide area. That is much less than the population of Glenrothes less than 10 miles from Stark's Park; Kirkcaldy has 48,000, and I wont go into the populations of Kirkcaldy's satelite towns.

That is selective at best. The population 'north of Tore', as you put it, is approaching 70,000.

[Big Berk]

At best? And at worst? Are you prepared to name any relevant centres of population I've selectively omitted?

If I havent been comprehensive enough to include every croft, but and ben and places a 100 miles from Dingwall like Durness Wick and Thurso and so forth I'd be interested to know how many fans you think travel down to Victoria Park from these places on a Saturday.

Edited September 7, 2014 by Big Berk

[Cowden til i die]

Fucking hell. When did this thread turn into the 2014 census.