Lisa Cuddy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I see it more as showing that you respect the father of your future wife and his place at the head of the family. It's old fashioned, but I like the tradition. Whether you actually do respect or value his position, matters not a f**k. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Why is his place as 'head of the family' to be taken for granted? Does the woman's mother not get an opinion? I just can't get my head around this at all. It's 2012. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Why is his place as 'head of the family' to be taken for granted? Does the woman's mother not get an opinion? I just can't get my head around this at all. It's 2012. Well, fight him for it then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 That would be a bit sneaky but understandable. Not sure if you're reading my posts before replying to them but I did say: "Yeah, we obviously have different opinions on it but if I had a daughter and someone asked permission I'd be pretty shocked, and not in a good way." and "A nice gesture for who? The father-in-law? Yeah, probably, if he likes having his ego stroked. Treating the prospective bride like an autonomous human rather than her daddy's property would be my personal preference, though." I'm obviously speaking hypothetically as I don't have kids, but I'd question the motives, guts, and regard for my daughter if a prospective husband asked me about marriage before asking her. ^^^^^^Trust issues. I think it's better to be included 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa Cuddy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Why is his place as 'head of the family' to be taken for granted? Does the woman's mother not get an opinion? I just can't get my head around this at all. It's 2012. The mother isn't traditionally seen as "head of the family". I did say it's old fashioned, I accept that. However, if others want to indulge in it, what does it matter? I've been married twice and both times, my husband has asked my Dad. He saw it as a sign of respect to him, and I appreciated it as that. In fact, Adam asked my Dad the first time they met - albeit after a fair bit of home made cider for west-country courage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Well, fight him for it then. That's a bit Dicksonesque, is it not? ^^^^^^Trust issues. I think it's better to be included Well, no. I trusted my then-girlfriend, now-wife to make her own decision. If in doing so I displayed any respect or otherwise to her parents, it would be in thinking that they had raised a daughter capable of making such choices. But really, they didn't enter into the equation. I get along fine with them - very, very well, in fact - and my family gets along fine with them all as well. It's just... not their decision, is it? It's mine and my then-girlfriend's. If I've understood your posts correctly, you think it's better to be included if you're male. Unless you're talking about asking the mother instead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 The mother isn't traditionally seen as "head of the family". I did say it's old fashioned, I accept that. However, if others want to indulge in it, what does it matter? I've been married twice and both times, my husband has asked my Dad. He saw it as a sign of respect to him, and I appreciated it as that. In fact, Adam asked my Dad the first time they met - albeit after a fair bit of home made cider for west-country courage. It matters to me inasmuch as, if it comes up in conversation, I'll explain why I think it's a bad idea, and is disrespectful to both the daughter and the mother. I'm not going to go door-to-door checking up on young couples, though, or try to get this enshrined in law. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa Cuddy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 It matters to me inasmuch as, if it comes up in conversation, I'll explain why I think it's a bad idea, and is disrespectful to both the daughter and the mother. I'm not going to go door-to-door checking up on young couples, though, or try to get this enshrined in law. You just seem overly puzzled by something that's really quite harmless! I think it's rare these days that a guy would ask before asking his future wife. I'm sure it does still happen, but I think it's more likely that he would propose first and wait for her to say yes before making her Dad feel respected. Once that bit's out the way, the father of the bride is pretty much out of the picture until he gets to walk her down the aisle and giving her away. I mean, I'm sure she's capable of making her own way, so why bother doing that either? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I certainly asked my faither in law. He is a massively formal sort of person anyway and I know it would have hurt him if I hadn't. It wasn't a big deal at the time and its not a big deal in 2012 either. Not every family is the same but I think if you know or get to know them well enough you'll be able to judge what may or may not be expected of you in certain circumstances. I don't really have any relationship at all with my father in law. The only time I have ever been alone with him was at an evening with Fred Dibnah at Troon town Hall and it was fairly awkward all round. He has f**k all chat and he doesnt welcome pish talk in general so that was me fucked. I was able to chat about flanges, cams pistons and rivets no bother though thankfully. But never again. Well it would be impossible to repeat that evening anyway as Dibnah snuffed it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 You just seem overly puzzled by something that's really quite harmless! I don't regard it as harmless, though. I think it maintains this ideal - admittedly in a pretty benign fashion - that women are property. An idea that held sway in the West well into the last century. It's still the default in much of the world. As I say, it's a fairly benign example of this, but one worth sweeping away nonetheless. I think it's rare these days that a guy would ask before asking his future wife. I'm sure it does still happen, but I think it's more likely that he would propose first and wait for her to say yes before making her Dad feel respected. Once that bit's out the way, the father of the bride is pretty much out of the picture until he gets to walk her down the aisle and giving her away. I mean, I'm sure she's capable of making her own way, so why bother doing that either? We didn't do it at our wedding, since you ask. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Phoenix Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Being the target in the middle of a bukkake ring made up of the likes of dundeebarry, Ric, Ad-Lib, Supras, C Muir and The Phoenix doesn't really appeal to me either. Spray tell me how I got sucked into this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 That's a bit Dicksonesque, is it not? Well, no. I trusted my then-girlfriend, now-wife to make her own decision. If in doing so I displayed any respect or otherwise to her parents, it would be in thinking that they had raised a daughter capable of making such choices. But really, they didn't enter into the equation. I get along fine with them - very, very well, in fact - and my family gets along fine with them all as well. It's just... not their decision, is it? It's mine and my then-girlfriend's. If I've understood your posts correctly, you think it's better to be included if you're male. Unless you're talking about asking the mother instead. That may have been your understanding. To elaborate, in my mind when I wrote it I was thinking of the time I asked my inlaws to be, the 'Inclusion' I alluded to was conducted with both inlaws and myself and my girlfreind discussing the matter and being welcomed into the fold. It's good to be included. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 The weirdest part IMO is the claim that doing so is showing good manners. It's not really, unless you're going to follow absurd social convention (if it's still even that) the whole way and haggle with the father over how many cattle would represent a fair dowry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 (edited) edit: the below is obviously a response to 'Zen Archer' and not VT That actually sounds unbearably creepy to me, but fair play in at least being equitable about it. Still, you can presumably understand that I thought you were referring only to fathers-in-law... given that your initial response came as a quoted reply to these lines: "Both my sons asked their father in laws permission," "A nice gesture for who? The father-in-law?" Edited August 23, 2012 by Swampy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Also: are you lot the fucking Kennedys? Are you really "marrying into a family"? Did that actually form any part of your motivation? These aren't rhetorical questions (well, the first one was.) Again, it's something that I just have no way of relating to. Again: I like my in-laws. My whole family on both sides get along well. I'll probably have dinner with my in-laws next week. But marrying "into" them didn't even begin to cross my mind when I was getting ready to propose. It just wasn't an issue. Frankly I feel sorry for anyone for whom it is. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reynard Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 The weirdest part IMO is the claim that doing so is showing good manners. It's not really, unless you're going to follow absurd social convention (if it's still even that) the whole way and haggle with the father over how many cattle would represent a fair dowry. The trickiest bit for some is pulling a burd in the first place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 edit: the below is obviously a response to 'Zen Archer' and not VT That actually sounds unbearably creepy to me, but fair play in at least being equitable about it. Still, you can presumably understand that I thought you were referring only to fathers-in-law... given that your initial response came as a quoted reply to these lines: Re. the highlighted part, good for you. Again, it's good to be included. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Phoenix Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I'm with Swampy on this one. If he'd asked my permission to take my daughter's hand in marriage, I'd have booted him in the balls and told him to get to f**k. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 You keep saying that. Is it supposed to take on meaning each time it's repeated? Did you include your wife's siblings? Neighbours? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I'm with Swampy on this one. If he'd asked my permission to take my daughter's hand in marriage, I'd have booted him in the balls and told him to get to f**k. You couldn't even get your foot that high, you daft old fantasist. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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