Guest The Phoenix Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Praise indeed. I'm feeling all warm inside. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffcsam Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Praise indeed. I'm feeling all warm inside. ^^^ peebags burst 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa Cuddy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 ^^^ peebags burst Don't be daft. He'd feel warm outside, not in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ffcsam Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Don't be daft. He'd feel warm outside, not in. Sorry nurse 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Phoenix Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Sorry nurse You wish. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinkerbelle Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Feck me. I should have made this a single thread cos it sure has brought out a few opinions 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckles Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 That would be a bit sneaky but understandable. Not sure if you're reading my posts before replying to them but I did say: "Yeah, we obviously have different opinions on it but if I had a daughter and someone asked permission I'd be pretty shocked, and not in a good way." and "A nice gesture for who? The father-in-law? Yeah, probably, if he likes having his ego stroked. Treating the prospective bride like an autonomous human rather than her daddy's property would be my personal preference, though." I'm obviously speaking hypothetically as I don't have kids, but I'd question the motives, guts, and regard for my daughter if a prospective husband asked me about marriage before asking her. If she was anything like you swamps, I'd be fuckin stunned, never mind shocked . But hey, if this sort of behaviour was good enough for Michael Corleone......... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 I don't regard it as harmless, though. I think it maintains this ideal - admittedly in a pretty benign fashion - that women are property. An idea that held sway in the West well into the last century. It's still the default in much of the world. As I say, it's a fairly benign example of this, but one worth sweeping away nonetheless. We didn't do it at our wedding, since you ask. It's not a view I hold, but I think it's possible to be "protective" if you like of people close to you in a benign paternal sense without treating them as property, owned or subjects. Whilst many aspects of gender norms are harmful, there's nothing inherently harmful with gender identities within cultures and the idea that one of the ways a man can feel valued and respected within a family or societal unit is to feel as though he is sharing in that instinct to act protectively towards his daughter, rather than that he is being deprived of that role by having those he looks out for and cared for become less and less a part of his life. This might be particularly apt in cultures where fathers are still seen as somewhat more distant than mothers from the family unit, and the way they feel they can interact is by offering security and protection to those they love, rather than what we might more readily imagine as expressions of affection and caring. That is not to say that these notions could not apply to a mother any less than a father, but that the historical and societal conventions around our family units have particularly served to make fathers feel less routinely engaged in the family's emotionally "close" moments, and that this makes them feel able to contribute emotionally in a way which prevents them from feeling disillusion or isolation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
die hard doonhamer Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I asked my fiancé's dad before I proposed, because I knew he would appreciate it, and so would she. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 That is not to say that these notions could not apply to a mother any less than a father, Then why don't they? Square that circle then the rest of your post is meaningful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 If she was anything like you swamps, I'd be fuckin stunned, never mind shocked . But hey, if this sort of behaviour was good enough for Michael Corleone......... What sort of behaviour? Did you just think "daughter" and "married" and make the first pop culture connection that came to mind? Like the guy who does the Highland League roundups on Radio Scotland? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 Then why don't they? Square that circle then the rest of your post is meaningful. Because over the piece in our society, combined with the biological factor of incubating a child to term, mothers tend to have more early physical (and by extension, direct emotional) contact with their children, so feel less difficulty relating to them, empathising with their circumstances, and continuing that relationship or bond to and beyond when their daughters get married. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Because over the piece in our society, combined with the biological factor of incubating a child to term, mothers tend to have more early physical (and by extension, direct emotional) contact with their children, so feel less difficulty relating to them, empathising with their circumstances, and continuing that relationship or bond to and beyond when their daughters get married. So they should apply to a mother less than a father? Decide which approach you're going to take on this then call me back. Avoid the evo-psych one because it's mainly bollocks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 I too think it is heavily outdated to ask a father's permission to marry their daughter, it isn't the fucking 1800's we live in. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckles Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 What sort of behaviour? Did you just think "daughter" and "married" and make the first pop culture connection that came to mind? Like the guy who does the Highland League roundups on Radio Scotland? You really have a pretty short attention span swamps . Now what sort of behaviour have we been discussing here ? C'mon, try and remember . That's right....we were discussing whether, in today's society it was deemed appropriate to ask a girl's father "for her hand ". Remember now ? And Highland League roundups ? Boy, you're living right on the edge swampster...I'm beginning to understand why you spend so much time on here . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 (edited) You really have a pretty short attention span swamps . Now what sort of behaviour have we been discussing here ? C'mon, try and remember . That's right....we were discussing whether, in today's society it was deemed appropriate to ask a girl's father "for her hand ". Remember now ? Yeah, no, sorry, still none the wiser. You're going to need to connect the dots for me on the Corleone reference. I think, as I said, you just chose the most convenient piece of pop culture that matched two keywords, which is a lazy substitute for comedy (c.f. Highland League roundup guy on Radio Scotland, open mic stand-ups, the entire comedic output of ITV.) And Highland League roundups ? Boy, you're living right on the edge swampster...I'm beginning to understand why you spend so much time on here . Even less (more? Whichever indicates less comprehension) none the wiser on this attempt, in fairness. Edited August 24, 2012 by Swampy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 So they should apply to a mother less than a father? Decide which approach you're going to take on this then call me back. Avoid the evo-psych one because it's mainly bollocks. No, I didn't say they should. I said they did. I made it clear from the outset I don't buy into the ought is behind that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattydfc Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I've been going out with my girlfriend for 2 days now and I'm going to ask her father tomorrow if I can take her hand in marriage, because I know he'd respect me more for it. Hopefully he says yes. -4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karpaty Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 I've been going out with my girlfriend for 2 days now and I'm going to ask her father tomorrow if I can take her hand in marriage, because I know he'd respect me more for it. Hopefully he says yes. Doubt your girlfriend will thank you for proposing to her dad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckles Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Yeah, no, sorry, still none the wiser. You're going to need to connect the dots for me on the Corleone reference. I think, as I said, you just chose the most convenient piece of pop culture that matched two keywords, which is a lazy substitute for comedy (c.f. Highland League roundup guy on Radio Scotland, open mic stand-ups, the entire comedic output of ITV.) Even less (more? Whichever indicates less comprehension) none the wiser on this attempt, in fairness. C'mon swamps, Godfather 2.....Michael Corleone......his sojourn in Sicily.....Tallly bird's old man..... you're being obtuse again swampster . Although, to be fair, it looks as though you're also struggling to differentiate between less and more, and that's got to be a worry . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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