Procycling thread

[Bishop Briggs]

4 hours ago, Sarto Mutiny said:

Another strong performance from UK Postal. Six riders at the head of the peloton. Amazing what happens if you give up Nutella and bring your own pillows

It's not having riders at the head of the peloton that makes Sky suspicious. All the teams riding for a stage win try to dominate the peloton. It was the hiring of doping doctor Geert Lenders, now banned for life, in 2012 that really stank. 

[Daydream]

Another strong performance from UK Postal. Six riders at the head of the peloton. Amazing what happens if you give up Nutella and bring your own pillows

Sounds like you think every other team is riding on bread and water with Sky given free reign to use blood bags and EPO.

It's a doper sport, sky are just the Real Madrid of le Tour - far stronger than any other team when it comes to the mountains.

[peasy23]

Caught the end today, superb ride by Dumoulin to win the stage in absolutely awful conditions. Froome ended up on his own but managed to keep his lead intact.

[Salvo Montalbano]

Bizarre that Porte was able to go alone when he had a teammate higher in the GC with him in the same group. Is Porte seen as leader even though he's a minute down on TJ? Quintana looks like he's biding his time and waiting for a mammoth attack in the Alps; I'd have thought the uphill time trial probably favours Froome over Nairo?

[Sarto Mutiny]

13 hours ago, Daydream said:

 

 

Sounds like you think every other team is riding on bread and water with Sky given free reign to use blood bags and EPO.

It's a doper sport, sky are just the Real Madrid of le Tour - far stronger than any other team when it comes to the mountains.

 

Trust me, I don't. But imagine if Astana were riding the way Sky are. Imagine David Walsh's reaction, for example. He seems oddly quiet on the matter.

[Salvo Montalbano]

Probably because Astana and a few others employ drug cheats and if anyone is even suspected of using drugs either now or in the past at Sky they get their contract terminated. Just look at Tiernan-Locke - possibly did something even before he joined Sky and gets drummed out. The risk to the rider is so great at Sky that you'd have to be a complete lunatic to even think about doping. 

[Sarto Mutiny]

1 hour ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

Probably because Astana and a few others employ drug cheats and if anyone is even suspected of using drugs either now or in the past at Sky they get their contract terminated. Just look at Tiernan-Locke - possibly did something even before he joined Sky and gets drummed out. The risk to the rider is so great at Sky that you'd have to be a complete lunatic to even think about doping. 

*Cough* Landa *cough*

*Cough* Leinders *cough*

[Salvo Montalbano]

Maybe I read different papers or websites from you but I can't ever remember Landa being mentioned asa possible doper, even when he was exceeding expectations in the Giro. 

As for Dr Leinders, given he was found guilty of offenses at Rabobank and not Sky, that they came out after he was at Sky (as a freelancer, not on the staff) and that Brailsford has admitted it was a mistake at the time, I'm not sure how that's relevant to the 2016 Tour?

[Sarto Mutiny]

2 hours ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

Probably because Astana and a few others employ drug cheats and if anyone is even suspected of using drugs either now or in the past at Sky they get their contract terminated. Just look at Tiernan-Locke - possibly did something even before he joined Sky and gets drummed out. The risk to the rider is so great at Sky that you'd have to be a complete lunatic to even think about doping. 

And yet, Sky are quite happy to sign a rider directly from said team.

[kiddy]

9 hours ago, Sarto Mutiny said:

Trust me, I don't. But imagine if Astana were riding the way Sky are. Imagine David Walsh's reaction, for example. He seems oddly quiet on the matter.

 Imagine Sky were riding as Astana did at the Giro, the outcry would be phenomenal. Nibali's sudden finding of form was outrageous.

[peasy23]

Maybe I read different papers or websites from you but I can't ever remember Landa being mentioned asa possible doper, even when he was exceeding expectations in the Giro. 

As for Dr Leinders, given he was found guilty of offenses at Rabobank and not Sky, that they came out after he was at Sky (as a freelancer, not on the staff) and that Brailsford has admitted it was a mistake at the time, I'm not sure how that's relevant to the 2016 Tour?

I know Paul Kimmage can go over the score at times, but he makes the point that in 2012 when Leinders was "assisting" Sky, Wiggins managed to be in form all the way from Paris-Nice, via Romandie, the Dauphine, the Tour de France and right through to the the Olympic TT. Nowadays Froome is on about training to be strong in the 3rd week of the tour. There is only one notable difference in the team from then to now.

[Daydream]

Maybe I read different papers or websites from you but I can't ever remember Landa being mentioned asa possible doper, even when he was exceeding expectations in the Giro. 

As for Dr Leinders, given he was found guilty of offenses at Rabobank and not Sky, that they came out after he was at Sky (as a freelancer, not on the staff) and that Brailsford has admitted it was a mistake at the time, I'm not sure how that's relevant to the 2016 Tour?

Do you believe that Sky are clean?

[Salvo Montalbano]

I do. I believe most teams these days are mostly clean. Times aren't as crazy like they were in the Armstrong era and testing is so much better. The marginal gains philosophy is  ring copied by teams now and just like football, tennis, whatever the athletes are fitter, smarter and better looked after. I was pretty much done after Contador failed for Clenbutarol but I'm starting to believe again. Maybe that's naivete but I think there's just too much to lose now for most people  (especially Sky who would lose any good faith News Corp have gained after the phone hacking scandal) to risk it.

[Sarto Mutiny]

5 hours ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

I do. I believe most teams these days are mostly clean. Times aren't as crazy like they were in the Armstrong era and testing is so much better. The marginal gains philosophy is  ring copied by teams now and just like football, tennis, whatever the athletes are fitter, smarter and better looked after. I was pretty much done after Contador failed for Clenbutarol but I'm starting to believe again. Maybe that's naivete but I think there's just too much to lose now for most people  (especially Sky who would lose any good faith News Corp have gained after the phone hacking scandal) to risk it.

Froome went up Ventoux in 2013 just as quickly as Armstrong did in 2002, and only 15 seconds slower than a doped up Contador did in 2009. Lies, damned lies etc, but it's interesting nonetheless.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mont_Ventoux#The_fastest_ascents_of_Mont_Ventoux

ETA: also interesting that almost everyone else on that list of fastest times has been implicated in doping at some stage in their career.

The broader point of why anyone would dope is down to human nature. We're dealing with very competitive people in an environment where the rewards are high and the risk of being caught is still relatively low (this is not exclusive to cycling). If the risk for Sky of being caught is too high, what with the potential of negative publicity and all, why did Festina, US Postal, Rabobank etc not feel that way back in the day? The stakes are no higher now.

Edited July 12, 2016 by Sarto Mutiny

[Desert Nomad]

Froome should easily have the race in hand with two ITT's still to come. Poor race design to put Ventoux in the day before an ITT.

[honestly united]

I had been thinking about the Sky team, and as quite a few will be representing or have represented GB at the Olympics and other countries as well I am assuming, would some of them not having been caught out by now? Plenty are also competing on the track as well, so surely there is testing there as well.

In saying that though did Armstrong not compete at the Olympics at some point? I know he won a medal at some point but not sure whether he actually competed during his TdF winning days

[Sarto Mutiny]

52 minutes ago, honestly united said:

I had been thinking about the Sky team, and as quite a few will be representing or have represented GB at the Olympics and other countries as well I am assuming, would some of them not having been caught out by now? Plenty are also competing on the track as well, so surely there is testing there as well.

In saying that though did Armstrong not compete at the Olympics at some point? I know he won a medal at some point but not sure whether he actually competed during his TdF winning days

LA won bronze at the time trial in the 2000 Olympics. He was stripped of that medal although the equally doped Jan Ullrich, who got the silver medal, was not. How odd.

[Desert Nomad]

I'm reading The End Of The Road by Alasdair Fotheringham just now which is about the Festina affair and the 98 Tour. Looking back, it's utterly mental just how untouchable riders and teams thought they were. In retrospect I think it would've been better for the sport had that Tour not made it to Paris. Mind the revisionism you hear from the likes of Jalabert thesedays is frightening.
I totally get why there's such cynicism today, when we still have user dopers like Vino running teams.
Noticed a Festina advert the other day featuring non other than Richard Virenque. Doping sells watches!

[Daydream]

I do. I believe most teams these days are mostly clean. Times aren't as crazy like they were in the Armstrong era and testing is so much better. The marginal gains philosophy is  ring copied by teams now and just like football, tennis, whatever the athletes are fitter, smarter and better looked after. I was pretty much done after Contador failed for Clenbutarol but I'm starting to believe again. Maybe that's naivete but I think there's just too much to lose now for most people  (especially Sky who would lose any good faith News Corp have gained after the phone hacking scandal) to risk it.

I hope they are clean but I'm too cynical to really believe. I'm ok with it tbh. I believe it's just part of cycling and as its a competitive sport I think it always will be.

[Daydream]

I had been thinking about the Sky team, and as quite a few will be representing or have represented GB at the Olympics and other countries as well I am assuming, would some of them not having been caught out by now? Plenty are also competing on the track as well, so surely there is testing there as well.

In saying that though did Armstrong not compete at the Olympics at some point? I know he won a medal at some point but not sure whether he actually competed during his TdF winning days

The testing seems quite easy to beat. By micro-dosing the banned compounds their 'glow time' is minimal meaning they are clean by morning. Armstrong never failed a test. Or maybe one but the UCI covered it up for him (or something like that).