Banning the burqa

[Ad Lib]

Just because the Qu'ran makes no mention of the burqa, doesn't mean that it's not being worn for religious or quasi-religious reasons. Clearly the various branches of Arabic culture are interdependent of the teachings of Islam, and the archaic values of female subservience and utmost modesty have grown from the conglomeration of religious and cultural influences in certain Muslim communities.

As Westerners, our attitudes have been shaped by different influences, and these out-dated concepts still vibrant in branches of Islam are, on the whole, much weaker. If we have any strength in our convictions in relation to sexual or racial equality it should be our duty to make it clear that our society does not condone the subjugation of women by ritualistic and cultural means such as the burqa, and should encourage Muslim women to wear it only if it is what they want to do, rather than out of any subconscious deference to male chauvinistic culture.

There are circumstances where it would be appropriate to insist that a burqa be removed, where the safety and well-being of others would be detrimentally affected by it being worn, or where proper identification is necessary. Ultimately, though, it would be antagonistic and impractical to impose a ban carte-blanche on the wearing of that or similar garments in public.

[Jacksgranda]

They are, of course, optional. I don't believe in banning them, that just seems an unwarranted step. Although rare, Muslim women - even in relatively pious Libya - are gradually shunning them. There are a few myths about them, but just to clarify, kids don't wear them and no woman has to wear one in the bank. I haven't been to Saudi Arabia but I gather things are altogether less free there. I can only speak for my experience here.

I'd also suggest Shariah law, which this discussion inevitably turns to, is a horrible, horrible thing, but one which is not in itself representative of Islam. Most male Muslims I know abhor it, and will openly say so. They probably wouldn't say that if they caught me fiddling their sister though.

Would that not depend on whethershe was wearing her burqa?

[Guest Kincardine]

Given that Scotland once had an enforced dress code I'd have thought we'd be the last country to want a ban so I'm surprised that some people are supporting this.

To me there's only one thing worse than a country that enforces burqa-wearing and that's one that tries to ban it.

[Mr Mojo Rising]

To me there's only one thing worse than a country that enforces burqa-wearing and that's one that tries to ban it.

That's a nice soundbite, but it's clearly bullshit!

[Guest Kincardine]

That's a nice soundbite, but it's clearly bullshit!

So what's bullshit about it? I don't want women to wear a burqa but I'd prefer they did so than have it banned.

[Mr Mojo Rising]

So what's bullshit about it? I don't want women to wear a burqa but I'd prefer they did so than have it banned.

You'd rather burka wearing was "enforced"?

That's fucked up!

[Guest Kincardine]

You'd rather burka wearing was "enforced"?

That's fucked up!

You're clearly having a bad comprehension day.

[perthshirebell]

I think we are unfairly targeting the burqa. In my opinion we should be targeting folk that wear the balaclava, in my experience folk that wear this badge of honour usually get caught up in organised crime.

[ICTChris]

Just because the Qu'ran makes no mention of the burqa, doesn't mean that it's not being worn for religious or quasi-religious reasons.

That's a good point. Abrahamic religions don't wholly rely on what is written in their particular holy book - hence why some Jewish traditions aren't mentioned in the Torah or why many of the biggest Christian churches practices are based on Church tradition rather than the Bible. I wasn't raised in a particularly religious house (unbaptised) but I don't think that crossing yourself is mentionedin the Bible yet Orthodox and Roman Catholic Christians can't get enough of it.

I don't think that the state should ban items of clothing. Of course, there will be situations where authorities need to see someone's face but either ban burqa's from specific businesses or areas or come to an accomodation. There was a funny story in the Private Eye recently about the endemic corruption in Tower Hamlets Council - during a recent election a rather tall (six foot plus) burqa clad 'voter' presented 'her'self at a polling station. When told that they would be challanged by officers, the 'woman' hiked up her skirt (revealing red Nike air running shoes) and sprinted off down the street!

[LiviCurryCider]

Yes.

[Mr Mojo Rising]

You're clearly having a bad comprehension day.

Ok, you explain to me what you meant by "there's only one thing worse than a country that enforces burqa-wearing"

[Guest Kincardine]

Ok, you explain to me what you meant by "there's only one thing worse than a country that enforces burqa-wearing"

What is to explain? Scotland had a style of dress banned after the second Jacobite rebellion. We still refer to it. Why should we feel the need to do this to others?

[zooby]

how do they taste the dinner in the kitchen? crazy women!

[Ye Olde Hamiltonian]

If you are told from birth that you matter less than a man, your word is worth less than a man, your value is less than a man and that you cannot go out without male company or even be seen by a man you are not married to or related to, your psyche is warped. you are incapable of making a free and objective choice.

Sorry, but the Burka belongs in history with the chains of the slaves. It is repressive and evil and it has to go.

I wouldn't go as far as that quote from the Guardian above but a ban in banks,whilst driving etc will hopefully lead to it becoming less popular.

It could be argued that it is cocking a snoop at liberal western society.Alternatively,others may see it as a sign of someone living life fully as a better Muslim woman than others.

Whatever way you feel,I find it sad that in a society with many choices,some want to dress like the Middle Ages and exclude themselves from large sections of the rest of society.

[longjohn]

Given that Scotland once had an enforced dress code I'd have thought we'd be the last country to want a ban so I'm surprised that some people are supporting this.

To me there's only one thing worse than a country that enforces burqa-wearing and that's one that tries to ban it.

Excellent post.

Ties in with the "I may not agree with your political views but I will fight to allow you to hold those views" argument.

[H_B]

Excellent post.

Ties in with the "I may not agree with your political views but I will fight to allow you to hold those views" argument.

Nah, not really. I'm with Mojo here - it's a soundbite that really isn't true.

The reasons for banning the burqa are actually well intentioned. The reasons for enforcing it's adoption aren't.

[deky]

Enough's enough, ban Islam.

While we're at it ban Christianity, Judaism, and every religion, in public at least.

If people still feel the need to live their lives in sub serviant obedience to some make believe diety then let them practise this in the privacy of their own home. Once they are in public they should show no sign of any religious leanings and give all Churches, Mosques etc to homeless charities.

It should also be a crime to indoctirne children into this dangerous, harmful passtime.

Once people reach the legal voting age they would be free to choose their religion, until then let the children play.

[xbl]

Now remember everyone, the poor little women don't know what is best for them, so it is up to us men to rescue them from oppression and tell them what to wear.

[Tryfield]

If you are told from birth that you matter less than a man, your word is worth less than a man, your value is less than a man and that you cannot go out without male company or even be seen by a man you are not married to or related to, your psyche is warped. you are incapable of making a free and objective choice.

Sorry, but the Burka belongs in history with the chains of the slaves. It is repressive and evil and it has to go.

That's about it in a nutshell.

[deky]

Now remember everyone, the poor little women don't know what is best for them, so it is up to us men to rescue them from oppression and tell them what to wear.

What not to wear actually.

Trinny and Suzanne take on the Taliban.