H_B Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 What not to wear actually. Trinny and Suzanne take on the Taliban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 I'm sure wee necklaces with Jesus on a cross aren't in the Bible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mojo Rising Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 Now remember everyone, the poor little women don't know what is best for them, so it is up to us men to rescue them from oppression and tell them what to wear. What you don't seem to be able to grasp is that no choice is free and informed when religion is involved. How many of these women truly decided to make the choice by themselves? How many were influenced by their families, friends etc? If they are brought up being told (wrongly) that women should wear the burka then they will believe it as well and for me, this is a very serious problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 What you don't seem to be able to grasp is that no choice is free and informed when religion is involved. How many of these women truly decided to make the choice by themselves? How many were influenced by there families, friends etc? If they are brought up being told (wrongly) that women should wear the burka then they will believe it as well and for me, this is a very serious problem. You are a fucking idiot. There isn't much more to add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 It's quite unbelievable that some people still wear such hilariously stupid comstumes based on ancient books full of ridiculous stories that are laughably bullshit. This also applies to people who practice all religious rites. Morons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 It's fine as long as both men and women are forced to wear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unleash The Nade Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 No denying,it does have some advantages God I'm shite at Photoshop ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mojo Rising Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 You are a fucking idiot. There isn't much more to add. No, you're the idiot, as has been shown many times in the past. You, like many others who like to present themselves as being "right on", have an identity crisis. You like to think of yourself as a bit of a liberal yet can't criticise a minority (in the UK) faith such as Islam despite the fact many aspects of the faith fly in the face of liberal ideals. Pathetic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 You are a fucking idiot. There isn't much more to add. What part of his post was wrong, XBL, and with what other than anecdotal evidence of 3 Muslim women loving the burqa do you intend to discredit it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 What part of his post was wrong, XBL, and with what other than anecdotal evidence of 3 Muslim women loving the burqa do you intend to discredit it? Yeah, I think the cultural pressure is very important. It's like arranged marriages. How many women who find themselves betrothed to someone their parents have selected for them are actually happy with this prospect (Undoubtedly some will be - I'm sure I could find 3 stories of cheery brides on Ggoogle) and how many feel unable to say "Naw, yer aw right maw" for fear of ostracision or worse, or even grow up with this so ingrained that they never get the chance to realise "actually, haud the bus. There's a big world out ther e- maybe I'll pick my own partner thanks very much". One of the things we studied in HR law was female circumcision in Africa. One of the problems was that well meaning Westerners (rightly appalled by this disgraceful practice) were running into problems where girls in villages who had not had this done were unable to find a mate, because (and here's a shocker) the menfolk insisted on it before they would take you, leading to them being shunned by the village, and in many cases booted out. So, how successful do you think they were in stamping this practice out? What is required therefore is the law of the land to outlaw the practice of mutilating children in this way, to protect the young girls, who would otherwise have had to agree to have it done. By making it illegal you take away the pressure on them to make a supposedly "free" choice that is actually harmful to them. That's often the role of the legal system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 There's a cultural pressure on women in the West to dress like sluts (in the eyes of the mad mullahs) but I'm all for that. I quite like sluts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deky Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 There's a cultural pressure on women in the West to dress like sluts (in the eyes of the mad mullahs) but I'm all for that. I quite like sluts. Jackpot, sluts in burqa's, best of both worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 Yeah, I think the cultural pressure is very important. It's like arranged marriages. How many women who find themselves betrothed to someone their parents have selected for them are actually happy with this prospect (Undoubtedly some will be - I'm sure I could find 3 stories of cheery brides on Ggoogle) and how many feel unable to say "Naw, yer aw right maw" for fear of ostracision or worse, or even grow up with this so ingrained that they never get the chance to realise "actually, haud the bus. There's a big world out ther e- maybe I'll pick my own partner thanks very much". One of the things we studied in HR law was female circumcision in Africa. One of the problems was that well meaning Westerners (rightly appalled by this disgraceful practice) were running into problems where girls in villages who had not had this done were unable to find a mate, because (and here's a shocker) the menfolk insisted on it before they would take you, leading to them being shunned by the village, and in many cases booted out. So, how successful do you think they were in stamping this practice out? What is required therefore is the law of the land to outlaw the practice of mutilating children in this way, to protect the young girls, who would otherwise have had to agree to have it done. By making it illegal you take away the pressure on them to make a supposedly "free" choice that is actually harmful to them. That's often the role of the legal system. A good post - I do think there is a distinction between an adult wearing a burqa and a child being mutilated though. I'm sure you weren't equating the two. Interestingly, Germaine Greer once defended the practice you describe on the grounds that we shouldn't impose Western values on Africans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 What part of his post was wrong, XBL, and with what other than anecdotal evidence of 3 Muslim women loving the burqa do you intend to discredit it? No, you're the idiot, as has been shown many times in the past. You, like many others who like to present themselves as being "right on", have an identity crisis. You like to think of yourself as a bit of a liberal yet can't criticise a minority (in the UK) faith such as Islam despite the fact many aspects of the faith fly in the face of liberal ideals. Pathetic! What? I criticise all religions. I even do so on this thread. But at risk of repeating myself yet a fucking gain, lets have a look at this post: What you don't seem to be able to grasp is that no choice is free and informed when religion is involved. Really? Is this really the case? How many of these women truly decided to make the choice by themselves? How many were influenced by their families, friends etc? You tell me. Its funny, but in hardcore Islamic countries like those monsters Iran, the Niqab is very, very rarely worn. In hardcore muslim Dubai, likewise. The niqab is cultural rather than religious. And surprisingly enough, in Europe, it tends to be mainly worn by converts rather than those born into it. Just like born again Christians are aye the maddest. Why do you find it so hard to believe that people wear it out of choice? I posted up several examples of those that do. I mean of course they are going to have some influence from their peers. I am influenced by my peers. But ultimately, the decision is up to the woman. Now don't get me wrong, if you go somewhere like Saudi, where the woman does not have good rights, then it is not a matter of freedom of choice, but in this country? This hardcore Islamofascist country? If they are brought up being told (wrongly) that women should wear the burka then they will believe it as well and for me, this is a very serious problem. Again, how do you account for converts? And why is it a serious problem anyway? Again, if this was somewhere like Saudi Arabia, then you would have a point, but we do not live in Saudi Arabia. What you are proposing is that we should tell women what they can and can't wear, that they can't make their own choices when it comes to clothing, and that they are too stupid and easily led to be allowed to dress themselves. Information is in the public domain, help is there for those who are abused, which is much more useful than simply banning some clothing. What is it you really have a problem with? Do you fear those who choose to dress differently? I don't like it myself, I think its stupid and impractical, and I have no doubt that some women believe they should wear it because of religion, but it is their choice, not yours. It's like arranged marriages. How many women who find themselves betrothed to someone their parents have selected for them are actually happy with this prospect (Undoubtedly some will be - I'm sure I could find 3 stories of cheery brides on Ggoogle) and how many feel unable to say "Naw, yer aw right maw" for fear of ostracision or worse, or even grow up with this so ingrained that they never get the chance to realise "actually, haud the bus. There's a big world out ther e- maybe I'll pick my own partner thanks very much". Or maybe you have no idea what an arranged marriage is. It is not the same as being "betrothed". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 A good post - I do think there is a distinction between an adult wearing a burqa and a child being mutilated though. I'm sure you weren't equating the two. No, of course, but it establishes the principle that what someone is culturally pressured into doing isn't necessarily in their best interests, and state intervention in at times necessary to take away a supposed choice, which in reality isn't a choice. Interestingly, Germaine Greer once defended the practice you describe on the grounds that we shouldn't impose Western values on Africans. That doesn't surprise me at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H_B Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 Or maybe you have no idea what an arranged marriage is. It is not the same as being "betrothed". Erm, I'm actually attending an arranged marriage in June, so yes, I know exactly what it is thanks. And, it's Jack and Jill time again I'm afraid, though this time I have to educate you in the meaning of a word, rather than a full sentence. be-troth (verb) to arrange for the marriage of; affiance (usually used in passive constructions); The couple was betrothed with the approval of both families. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi-Ulster Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 I personally would like to see the burqa banned. If you can not walk into a post office or shop with a motorbike helmet or anything that covers up most of your face then why should you be allowed to wear a barqa. It is just another example of how its one rule for muslims and one for the rest. It also degraded to women. Making them wear something against their will. I am glad that at least Belgium has the balls to finally stop poeple wearing the stupid burqa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 Erm, I'm actually attending an arranged marriage in June, so yes, I know exactly what it is thanks. And, it's Jack and Jill time again I'm afraid, though this time I have to educate you in the meaning of a word, rather than a full sentence. be-troth (verb) to arrange for the marriage of; affiance (usually used in passive constructions); The couple was betrothed with the approval of both families. Ah fair enough, by definition I guess, but I normally think of betrothed as a childhood thing carried out by the parents, whereas arranged marriage seems to be more a case of the parents suggesting "perhaps you might like to go out with this person". So fair enough, you're right by definition, I can concede that, I guess I just generally hear it used differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiviCurryCider Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 Religion is a lot of pish anyway. In this country we should ban the burqa, any further building of mosques and teaching of religious education in schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 Religion is a lot of pish anyway. In this country we should ban the burqa, any further building of mosques and teaching of education in schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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