May 2011 Election

[Reynard]

Patient care certainly hasn't improved. How many cases of MRSA was there during Thatcher or Majors government? or CDiff? or Winter Vomiting?

I live in an area where the improvement should be massive and obvious but it's not.

I remember the day when I fell on my hand. I couldn't move it and it was swelling rapidly. I was in quite a bit of pain and I got a taxi to Law Hospital. I looked at the digital board flashing up the approximate wait time and decided that at 1.5 hours I was sore but not THAT sore. I went home, slept on it and returned the following morning to be seen in 10 minutes, x-rayed, plastered and home again within an hour.

These days a trip to Wishaw A&E at any time will see a standard wait time of 4 hours unless you are brought in by ambulance.

Oh and anyone who has had a baby in Law and then Wishaw will tell you just how badly that service has deteriorated too.

Try getting a home visit from a GP. That's hilarious ow. My brother in law works as a GP in Ayrshire and at nights they operate the ADOC(AYRSHIRE DOCTORS ON CALL) when it's his turn to work he covers an area from Ballantrae in the south of the county to Skelmorie in the North a distance of nearly sixty miles. Unless you are about to die you have f**k all chance of seeing him.

But at least he is being paid twenty five grand a year more than he was.

[banterman86]

I'm basing it on the fact that money has been lobbed into the NHS and the wage bill is higher. Patient care hasn't vastly improved has it?

I don't know, that's why I'm asking, genuinely.

[Pink Freud]

Patient care certainly hasn't improved. How many cases of MRSA was there during Thatcher or Majors government? or CDiff? or Winter Vomiting?

Interesting that you bring that up. Thatcher started the privatisation of cleaning services in the NHS. Major carried on from where she left off. Result? Filthy hospitals and cleaning services run purely for profit. At the very least, Labour tried to roll back the spending cuts, but fucked it up royally in this area. Not a lot of voted in cleaning services vs new MRI scanners.

Not a good example Stuart. Also, and no great surprise, incredibly simplistic, in that C.diff and MRSA have both mutated (as you would know if you bothered to find out) due to a global problem with resistance building up to first line antibiotic therapy.

[Pink Freud]

I remember the day when I fell on my hand. I couldn't move it and it was swelling rapidly. I was in quite a bit of pain and I got a taxi to Law Hospital. I looked at the digital board flashing up the approximate wait time and decided that at 1.5 hours I was sore but not THAT sore. I went home, slept on it and returned the following morning to be seen in 10 minutes, x-rayed, plastered and home again within an hour.

So in other words, it wasn't an emergency.

[Law Stud]

Try getting a home visit from a GP. That's hilarious ow. My brother in law works as a GP in Ayrshire and at nights they operate the ADOC(AYRSHIRE DOCTORS ON CALL) when it's his turn to work he covers an area from Ballantrae in the south of the county to Skelmorie in the North a distance of nearly sixty miles. Unless you are about to die you have f**k all chance of seeing him.

But at least he is being paid twenty five grand a year more than he was.

Oh I know what you mean Reynard. It's a while since I was last ill, but a few years back I had cellulitis - for those that don't know it's a blood infection - which had made my right leg swell considerably. I'd had it before and I knew that what worked for me was to go to hospital and to be put on an IV drip with some antibiotics as soon as possible. I know if it's done quickly the red mark and swelling can be turned around in a day.

I went to Wishaw General A&E and told them what it was. They made me sit for 4 hours with no treatment, then I was taken into a cubicle and left on a trolley for probably another 30 minutes - during which time my temperature had gone through the roof and I passed out. When I woke a nurse was next to me taking my temperature and putting a fan on to help me. I explained I should be put on an IV drip and she decided to get a doctor. He sent me for an X-Ray. I thought it was a bit strange but I went along with it. The X-Ray showed nothing, so the doctor phoned someone and came back to me and said treatment for cellulitis had changed and he was to give me some pills and send me home. He was a bit concerned that I'd passed out so he checked my heart and decided I was ok but I was to come back again if the swelling got worse.

I went home, took the pills, and the swelling got worse. For the first time in my life it had tracked all the way up my right leg and it was pretty obvious the drugs weren't working. I phoned my GP but didn't get past the receptionist and she put me on to NHS 24 or whatever it's called in Scotland. Predictably the call centre monkey didn't know what was wrong with me so passed it to a nurse who listened for a minute and decided that yes I was indeed ill and that I should make my way into hospital where she would arrange an appointment for me.

I took an overnight bag expecting to be kept in but instead I got some foreign doctor who struggled with English, who looked at the leg and prescribed more pills. I told him I had pills and showed him, but he told me to take these pills on top of the ones I was already taking - so back home I went and I followed his advice.

Later that night the whole leg is a deep, deep purple colour and my chest is agony. I can only vaguely remember what was going on cause I was in and out of conciousness. The wife panicked and dialled 999 and an Ambulance crew took me to Wishaw but were turned away, they then headed to Hairmyers but got a radio message that hospital had been closed too. Then we went to Monklands where all the wards were shut but they put me on a trolley in A&E and put me on a drip. The checked out my chest and it turned out I wasn't having a heart attack but instead I had been over dozing on anti-biotics and it had ripped the lining of my stomach. In spent the next five days in the Renal Unit at Monklands - only because that is normally a closed unit with empty beds - and there was nowhere else to stick me. I was in a ward with some geriatric who had fallen and an alcoholic going through detox, and before you knew it I was the one looking after the other two in the ward cause the nurses were nowhere to be seen and the doctors would only come over to that area of the hospital once they had finished their rounds in the wards they usually covered.

Now I know I am not the only person to have experienced care like that - the deterioration is damned obvious to anyone who has to use an NHS hospital for anything at all. All Labour's money has done is tart up some shiteholes with a bit of paint, additional nurses to help with the volume of chocolates, and they've grossly inflated doctors wages.

[Law Stud]

So in other words, it wasn't an emergency.

No, it was an accident....

It was a fracture. I was in the right place Pink.

[Pink Freud]

No, it was an accident....

It was a fracture. I was in the right place Pink.

Yep. I didn't say you weren't. But by your own admission, it wasn't that sore, and for all you know there were three people suffering MIs or strokes at the time you went in. There's a wee process called triage - where a nurse will determine how far down the pecking order your injury or illness is in comparison with other admissions. Sounds like you (correctly) saved them the bother.

[xbl]

Oh I know what you mean Reynard. It's a while since I was last ill, but a few years back I had cellulitis - for those that don't know it's a blood infection - which had made my right leg swell considerably. I'd had it before and I knew that what worked for me was to go to hospital and to be put on an IV drip with some antibiotics as soon as possible. I know if it's done quickly the red mark and swelling can be turned around in a day.

....

Now I know I am not the only person to have experienced care like that - the deterioration is damned obvious to anyone who has to use an NHS hospital for anything at all. All Labour's money has done is tart up some shiteholes with a bit of paint, additional nurses to help with the volume of chocolates, and they've grossly inflated doctors wages.

I thought you were private? You seem to be constantly in hospital with things that nearly kill you!

[Ad Lib]

I thought you were private? You seem to be constantly in hospital with things that nearly kill you!

In fairness, he's fat, probably smokes, and is a reckless manual labourer. He probably can't get private health insurance.

[Law Stud]

Yep. I didn't say you weren't. But by your own admission, it wasn't that sore, and for all you know there were three people suffering MIs or strokes at the time you went in. There's a wee process called triage - where a nurse will determine how far down the pecking order your injury or illness is in comparison with other admissions. Sounds like you (correctly) saved them the bother.

Yes, I accept that Pink and I don't have a problem with it at all. Indeed rather than complain I left the hospital and returned the following day. In comparison to what happens today I'd love to see A&E displaying wait times of just 1.5 hours.

[Law Stud]

In fairness, he's fat, probably smokes, and is a reckless manual labourer. He probably can't get private health insurance.

My employer provides me with top rate BUPA health care cover

Edited to add - oh I don't smoke. I'm not going to deny any of your other points though.

[renton]

I'm saying it hasn't improved in line with the amount of money Labour has lobbed at it. In fact it hasn't improved at all . Its much the same as it has always been. Apart from the fact that the wage bill is now much higher...

My link

It's not quite the comprehensive set of stats I was looking for, but it would seem to indicate that NHS waiting times have improved markedy over the time Labour was in power. Under the Major government waiting times for non critical operatiosn were around 18 months. Under Labour, 18 weeks was a baseline, and indeed some regions were pushing on for 12 week referrals.

My link

The commonwealth fund seems to like us, in it's survey of seven industrialised nations, we ranked overall second behind the Netherlands (and spending less per head than them as well- -infact our spending was second lowest), topping the charts for effective care, point of care access and, believe it or not, efficiency. Timlieness came in at 4th, although as previously noted, we've made huge imporvements in that area. The NHS is still awful on long lviing and health parameters - a testimony to the increasing requirements of preventitive medicine, rather than treatment after the fact.

I imagine that other healths sytems come under different levels of strain, but certain elements of Scottish and wider British culture make sure that the NHS comes under more strain than say France or Italy.

There is no doubt that Labour threw inordinate amounts of money at the problem, but there is also little doubt that there was not a marked improvement in both timely care and effective care.

[Ad Lib]

My employer provides me with top rate BUPA health care cover

Edited to add - oh I don't smoke. I'm not going to deny any of your other points though.

Then why, might I ask, do you end up in an NHS hospital so often?

[the snudge]

Im goin in the day for a biopsy....these stories hardly fill me with confidence!

[renton]

Im goin in the day for a biopsy....these stories hardly fill me with confidence!

If the organ harvesters don't get you, the fat MSRA ridden nurses will! [/lawstud]

[Pink Freud]

Now I know I am not the only person to have experienced care like that - the deterioration is damned obvious to anyone who has to use an NHS hospital for anything at all. All Labour's money has done is tart up some shiteholes with a bit of paint, additional nurses to help with the volume of chocolates, and they've grossly inflated doctors wages.

Now that is SO much bullshit. I've experienced the NHS through 5 differnt bowel surgery operations. I have also experienced one in the local BUPA Hospital (The Lees) and in an Australian Hospital (Gairdner Memorial, PErth) all related to the same issue.

THe Aussie and CAmbridge public hospitals were excellent. The food in both could have been better, but the care and professionalism was excellent.

Contrast that with the Lees, where the nurse in the so called "high dependency unit", willing as she was, didn;t have a fucking clue about acute post op care.

WE can all do anecdotes Stuart. Mine just happen to be accurate.

[Reynard]

Then why, might I ask, do you end up in an NHS hospital so often?

Does BUPA do A&E?

[Ad Lib]

Does BUPA do A&E?

Obviously there's A&E, but given that Dickson seems to have been in NHS hospitals in excess of 20 times, he must either be very accident prone or is probably unfit to work and should collect incapacity benefit or something...

[xbl]

To move the topic on from Dickson's fantasy land, another aspect of this government which has contrasted with Labour is the stability. Its often understated, but considering it is a minority government, it really has been very stable! Overall, its never really looked threatened, despite Labour originally pledging to operate like a government in waiting, and we've had far less of the scandals, resignations, and reshuffles than blighted the Lib Lab years.

I can recall the Sturgeon "scandal", which was not related to her job, and one reshuffle which left the cabinet unchanged. I think thats right? Contrast that to the Labour style of job hotseating, where people barely got a chance to sit down before they were moved on or dropped a bollock. Its a very commendable aspect of the government IMO, and one which doesn't get talked about enough.

[Broken Algorithms]

I'm relatively happy with how the SNP have done. They seem to be well grounded and they seem fair enough albeit I'd never support independence.