May 2011 Election

[Swampy]

[vikingTON]

Woah, the news is still being broadcast from Englandshire. I thought they'd have cut the transmission at Carlisle by now...

[Swampy]

I'm not convinced it will fail. The legal challenge isn't on the authority to "poll the people of Scotland" it's on the authority to "pass a piece of legislation which "relates to" (even if it has no legislative consequences for) a reserved matter. The wording in the Scotland Act is that "an Act of Scottish Parliament is not law in so far as it relates to reserved matters". That's not morally, or politically fair, but on a legal level (and it's a technicality to all intents and purposes) a complaint could be upheld.

Of course. But if the complaint is upheld (and there is a reasonable chance it could be) there's f**k all the Scottish Parliament could really do about it from a legal perspective. (save the Scottish Ministers appealing to the UK Supreme Court, who as we all know the SNP just LOVE )

We're not going to agree on this, we're just going to have to wait and see.

On a legal level the EU and UN are both decent avenues, but we both know it'd never go that far.

[Jie Bie]

The Unionist parties know it would be political suicide to try and prevent a referndum from going ahead once the bill which proposed it is voted through the Scottish Parliament.

They now want to have it right away, as they know that it would probably be lost. They also know that if they allow the SNP to dictate the timing and the question then there's a much better chance of the Scottish people voting "Yes".

[Swampy]

The Unionist parties know it would be political suicide to try and prevent a referndum from going ahead once the bill which proposed it is voted through the Scottish Parliament.

They now want to have it right away, as they know that it would probably be lost. They also know that if they allow the SNP to dictate the timing and the question then there's a much better chance of the Scottish people voting "Yes".

Yep - those self-same parties that were clutching their pearls over the "distraction" of independence will now be looking to... uh, distract the newly-convened parliament with constant nagging about independence.

The SNP can easily take the high road on this: they have a whole raft of newbie MSPs, and these candidates need to be given some time to bed in and work for their constituents. Then the fun begins. Not when the CDUists say they're ready.

[The Arch]

Might be me being stupid but what is CDU?

I should probably be a Labour voter but quite glad to see them thrashed. Hopefully they realise they need to transform their party, get out the old guard and stop taking votes for granted.

[Swampy]

Might be me being stupid but what is CDU?

Cold Dead Union

I should probably be a Labour voter

wh.... y?

[vikingTON]

Radio Scotland had an interview with first time voters at Reid Kerr:

Some bint: "Eh, ah just followed who ma mam voted fur, cos am supposed tae know nothin aboot politics... so I voted Labur."

Sums their core vote up, really.

[Swampy]

"In truth in a race with few clear policy divides it largely came down to personality," say STV.

That's a lie by omission. The manifesto policies didn't differ massively, but did they miss the last four years, in which Labour continually voted down SNP policies simply because they could?

[The Arch]

wh.... y?

Grew up in Labour area, most of my family generally votes Labour because my grandpa was somehow involved in the party back in the day.

Still not sure which party suits me. I don't want Scotland to be independent but SNP at least seem to be positive in their policies. Labour are not and everyone else is pointless in the grand scheme of things.

[ForzaDundee]

We didn't leave Labour, Labour left us.

[Swampy]

Grew up in Labour area, most of my family generally votes Labour because my grandpa was somehow involved in the party back in the day.

That's the thing - what is a Labour area these days? Do you think either at Westminster or Holyrood the Labour Party stands up for its constituencies? I don't. I think individual MPs/MSPs* can be positive but the party's influence on its strongholds has been overwhelmingly negative for decades now. Finally we're starting to see the fruits of this policy in a non-local poll, but I'm skeptical as to whether or not it'll transfer to Westminster.

*not in Inverclyde, sadly

Still not sure which party suits me. I don't want Scotland to be independent but SNP at least seem to be positive in their policies. Labour are not and everyone else is pointless in the grand scheme of things.

Plenty of people opposed to independence are voting SNP these days. They'll see the light in full soon enough

[vikingTON]

We didn't leave Labour, Labour left us.

Not really, Scottish Labour have been a petty, socially conservative institutional party for a generation. People have woken up, smelt the coffee and realised that the 'natural party of government' is actually only there for feathering their own nest.

[Swello]

Some of the "we subsidise your free prescriptions!!!!!111!" dribblings on the BBC website comments are quite funny. It's amazing how deeply that stuff is already ingrained on the English psyche already, regardless of the level of truth in it. As expected, some of the more Daily Mail types have taken an SNP victory as some sort of mass rejection of England itself and they are duly offended.....

[Swampy]

Some of the "we subsidise your free prescriptions!!!!!111!" dribblings on the BBC website comments are quite funny. It's amazing how deeply that stuff is already ingrained on the English psyche already, regardless of the level of truth in it. As expected, some of the more Daily Mail types have taken an SNP victory as some sort of mass rejection of England itself and they are duly offended.....

Difference isn't necessarily opposition or hatred, so many of the Daily Mail set don't get this. Authoritarians, what are you gonna do

[Reynard]

Grew up in Labour area, most of my family generally votes Labour because my grandpa was somehow involved in the party back in the day.

Still not sure which party suits me. I don't want Scotland to be independent but SNP at least seem to be positive in their policies. Labour are not and everyone else is pointless in the grand scheme of things.

I'm waiting to see how they do with a full mandate before I start back slapping them. We should get to see their true nature at least now.

And they will have to able to come up with good reasons for being independent too now. The ba' is firmly in their court.

[HibeeJibee]

It'll be interesting to see how Labour and the Lib Dems in particular react to the referendum situation, in the context of their hidings and (for Labour at least) clear failure to have forseen it, or appreciate/accept what caused it.

Before the election Ian Gray kept saying that a referendum was "a distraction", and Tavish Scott ran this - in hindsight stupid - line that if the people of Scotland wanted a referendum, then they would vote SNP (delivered in a slightly sarcastic manner - as clearly he didn't anticipate them having enough seats to get it through). In both cases, Labour especially, they took much of the electorate for mugs. So they gave them a doing. Suddenly adopting a policy of "actually changed our minds, hold referendum ASAP!!" would be to keep on digging once you're in the hole, IMO, instead of appearing recalcitrant.

People voted, massively, for an SNP which promised to have a referendum later in the parliament, if they had the ability to deliver one.

[Pink Freud]

Some of the "we subsidise your free prescriptions!!!!!111!" dribblings on the BBC website comments are quite funny. It's amazing how deeply that stuff is already ingrained on the English psyche already, regardless of the level of truth in it. As expected, some of the more Daily Mail types have taken an SNP victory as some sort of mass rejection of England itself and they are duly offended.....

Yeah, I noticed a lot of that. It's difficult for some down here to get that a vote for the SNP isn't a defacto anti English stance.

What I thought was a lot more interesting was the English Nationalists on there applauding their Scottish counterparts. I wonder, if the referendum vote goes ahead later rather than sooner, whether we could see a proper, grown up English Nationalist political option down here. Time will tell.

[The Arch]

That's the thing - what is a Labour area these days? Do you think either at Westminster or Holyrood the Labour Party stands up for its constituencies? I don't. I think individual MPs/MSPs* can be positive but the party's influence on its strongholds has been overwhelmingly negative for decades now. Finally we're starting to see the fruits of this policy in a non-local poll, but I'm skeptical as to whether or not it'll transfer to Westminster.

Plenty of people opposed to independence are voting SNP these days. They'll see the light in full soon enough

I could probably be swayed to SNP. They're the best of a bad bunch currently.

[vikingTON]

I wonder, if the referendum vote goes ahead later rather than sooner, whether we could see a proper, grown up English Nationalist political option down here. Time will tell.

Very much doubt it, as the Tories would either continue posturing as one-nation British nationalists or morph into English nationalists should CDU break up. They also have the advantage of being 'the winning team' and the careerist politicans who go with that. Plus with the arse falling out of voting reform right now, England is doomed to solely FPTP for its national political representation.