The Falkirk FC Thread

[Bairnardo]

Not convinced losing the academy is a big deal, when exactly did it last produce players worthy of getting in the first team or even on the fringes of the first team? 
The problem and poor managerial appointments (obviously in hindsight) and poor player recruitment (Captain obvious I know). 
If we had a good manager with the budget that Hartley had we would have a good team on the park. A properly scouted signing or 2 from English academies isn't a bad idea when we have a settled team already, signing a whole new team obviously isn't the way to do it though!

I wasnt convinced at the time and feel a bit silly now.

The mere fact that others in the game seen it is hand in hand with the identity of the club is telling. The fact that they binned it, used the excuse of throwing everything at promotion and subsequently got us relegated is pretty mind blowing. Hindsight and all, but again, I am a fan and a customer so I get to change my mind and throw the blame at those who actially made the decision.

[Guest Ecosse83]

3 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

I wasnt convinced at the time and feel a bit silly now.

The mere fact that others in the game seen it is hand in hand with the identity of the club is telling. The fact that they binned it, used the excuse of throwing everything at promotion and subsequently got us relegated is pretty mind blowing. Hindsight and all, but again, I am a fan and a customer so I get to change my mind and throw the blame at those who actially made the decision.
 

We produced some players years ago that got our reputation for the academy, were we still producing enough first team players to keep it going? 

Binning the academy didn't get us relegated!

[Marshmallo]

9 minutes ago, Ecosse83 said:

Not convinced losing the academy is a big deal, when exactly did it last produce players worthy of getting in the first team or even on the fringes of the first team? 

The problem and poor managerial appointments (obviously in hindsight) and poor player recruitment (Captain obvious I know). 

If we had a good manager with the budget that Hartley had we would have a good team on the park. A properly scouted signing or 2 from English academies isn't a bad idea when we have a settled team already, signing a whole new team obviously isn't the way to do it though!

I completely agree with you in terms of the impact on the first team, but now that things are bad it adds to the feeling of disconnection between club and town/fans.

[Rocco]

You've got to wonder if signing players like Vaulks and Leahy helped the argument for the "Brentford model". Unfortunately for us, they signed guys like Dallison and Lewis

[Bairnardo]

We produced some players years ago that got our reputation for the academy, were we still producing enough first team players to keep it going? 
Binning the academy didn't get us relegated!

No, it didnt but the reason for binning it was to get us promoted so it has been an utterly busted flush to do it

[Hank von Hell]

55 minutes ago, Rudolph Hucker said:

^^^   well and truly broken. Sad.

That's where you are wrong my friend. Not sure where you are getting all this from , I have a feeling you are just trying  to copy stuff others say but you are not making any sense in the context.

Anyway , I realized a couple of years ago there are far more important things in life than football - it's just a game - so have a great day in Sunny Greenock & good luck to you.

[Hank von Hell]

11 minutes ago, Ecosse83 said:

We produced some players years ago that got our reputation for the academy, were we still producing enough first team players to keep it going? 

Binning the academy didn't get us relegated!

Funny , Peter Houston said on Sportsound that the binning of the academy absolutely has an affect the first team.

Oh and Tony Gallacher was sold to Liverpool in Jan 2018. Plus the young guys we binned and were picked up by Rangers & Celtic played in the Scottish Youth Cup Final.  What exactly do you want from the academy - millions every season?

[Hank von Hell]

2 hours ago, ScottishZizou said:

 

It’s probably been covered earlier in the thread but if anyone has the figures for how much savings closing the academy has brought about I’d be appreciative as I’m curious.  

1. Savings from closing the academy - 9.5M per season (and rising ). Source M Lang.

2. Costs for recruiting Hartley  management team,  signing Hartley players, binnng Hartley management team, binning Hartley players, "recruiting " McKinnon management team , court cases , fines, compensation, signing McKinnon players & probably soon binning them .........ermm......errr....don't ...eh ...ask.....oh look over there, a squirrel !!!   

Edited May 1, 2019 by Hank von Hell

[Guest Ecosse83]

11 minutes ago, Hank von Hell said:

Funny , Peter Houston said on Sportsound that the binning of the academy absolutely has an affect the first team.

Oh and Tony Gallacher was sold to Liverpool in Jan 2018. Plus the young guys we binned and were picked up by Rangers & Celtic played in the Scottish Youth Cup Final.  What exactly do you want from the academy - millions every season?

No not millions every season, I would just have liked more academy players breaking into the first team that's all. 

 

[Hank von Hell]

9 minutes ago, Ecosse83 said:

No not millions every season, I would just have liked more academy players breaking into the first team that's all. 

 

It happened year on year since Pressley , christ the team was full of them.

The academy was due a lean spell but was not allowed one & was brutally cut before the next exciting batch were about to come through - never mind much bigger clubs than us picked them up  & now they are playing in cup finals and capped by Scotland.

Who'd want that anyway when we have Craig Campbell's Bogus Brentford Model , it's much better - I know I've seen the slides      

[Bairney The Dinosaur]

Kettlewell 100% hit the nail on the head on sportsound last night. Heart and soul of the club was ripped out when we shut the academy

I’d agree that’s really where things took a nose dive. Not convinced it was the closure of the academy itself that done it but more the way in which it was done.

[Bairnardo]

I’d agree that’s really where things took a nose dive. Not convinced it was the closure of the academy itself that done it but more the way in which it was done.

The way in which it happened can probably be viewed as a reasonably early symptom of the actual disease (idiots with slideshows running the club)

[Guest Ecosse83]

2 minutes ago, Hank von Hell said:

It happened year on year since Pressley , christ the team was full of them.

The academy was due a lean spell but was not allowed one & was brutally cut before the next exciting batch were about to come through - never mind much bigger clubs than us picked them up  & now they are playing in cup finals and capped by Scotland.

Who'd want that anyway when we have Craig Campbell's Bogus Brentford Model , it's much better - I know I've seen the slides      

What players played in the cup final? Not saying they didn't I genuinely don't know. 

Obviously the academy was good to us but could we afford it when it did go quiet? It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years with the players that were released from the academy that's for sure. 

[Hughsie]

3 minutes ago, Ecosse83 said:

Obviously the academy was good to us but could we afford it when it did go quiet? It will be interesting to see what happens over the next few years with the players that were released from the academy that's for sure. 

The nature of youth football always results in there being leaner periods of production of players.

The history of the academy shows that and I’ve got no doubt that we’d have produced several good players in the near future again.

[Bairnardo]

The nature of youth football always results in there being leaner periods of production of players.
The history of the academy shows that and I’ve got no doubt that we’d have produced several good players in the near future again.

People also get too hung up on the fees brought in IMO.

People need to remember that its POSSIBLE (not probable) that if we brought in 400 kids at the age of six and rrally worked hard at it, we might att he end of it, have a fucking right back.

Just once. An actual Right Back.

[HopeStreetWalker]

There have been comments made on the merits of the academy and its demise. The creation of the academy had planned to produce the big multi million pound sale to kick us on to the net level. It never produced the 3 -6 million pound deal with sell on bonus. Therefore since the academy did not fulfill it's brief it has to be judged as a partial failure. We produced some very good players that served the club well but it has not been enough.

When Falkirk sold a player we were and are still seen as a soft touch. International potential sold for pennies. Kennedy. Gillespie. Marshall. Irvine. Weir proves the point.

Other provincial clubs some with a fraction of our support manage it. Partick - StJohnstone - Hamilton - Kilmarnock - Motherwell have all managed multi million pound sales and reaped the benefits.

If the club is to revive an academy then the reasons for these past failures must be identified and rectified.

Scouting , Coaching , Management and Negotiating simply have not been good enough.

 

 

[Poet of the Macabre]

If you finish 9th will the protest still be going on?

[Senor Bairn]

If you finish 9th will the protest still be going on?

Aye

[Bairnardo]

If you finish 9th will the protest still be going on?

Making 9th, minor miracle though it woukd be, changes nothing. Genies out the bottle in terms of those in charge needing hounded.

[AGPar]

19 minutes ago, HopeStreetWalker said:

There have been comments made on the merits of the academy and its demise. The creation of the academy had planned to produce the big multi million pound sale to kick us on to the net level. It never produced the 3 -6 million pound deal with sell on bonus. Therefore since the academy did not fulfill it's brief it has to be judged as a partial failure. We produced some very good players that served the club well but it has not been enough.

When Falkirk sold a player we were and are still seen as a soft touch. International potential sold for pennies. Kennedy. Gillespie. Marshall. Irvine. Weir proves the point.

Other provincial clubs some with a fraction of our support manage it. Partick - StJohnstone - Hamilton - Kilmarnock - Motherwell have all managed multi million pound sales and reaped the benefits.

If the club is to revive an academy then the reasons for these past failures must be identified and rectified.

Scouting , Coaching , Management and Negotiating simply have not been good enough.

 

 

To label the academy a partial failure because we have not sold a player for between £3 and 6m plus add-ons is absolute nonsense. On what possible basis did FFC or anyone associated with it expect to ever be in a position to sell a player for that amount? Where, and by whom, was this figure quoted? 

All of the players you have mentioned were deals done literally decades ago, they have absolutely no relevance to the academy structure you are talking about. The general "gold standard" sale for a club of our stature would be someone like James McCarthy. He went to Wigan Athletic for a reported up-front fee of about £1.2m and Hamilton then benefited from a significant sell-on clause when he joined Everton. Name the last player Partick, Killie, St Johnstone, Motherwell sold for "multi-millions"?

Over the past decade we've raked in a significant seven figure sum in transfer fees and sell-on clauses which should have given us a solid platform on which to build and preogress. Instead, we'll be a third tier club this time next week. It's certainly a hell of a failure on the part of many. Not the academy though.